No one won today.

[saracat]

We are letting the Repugs put some of the worst judges in history on the path to SCOTUS and they are postponing any fight over the filibuster.Big whup. No one wins anything.The American people lose.The Democrats preserve a filibuster they promise NOT to use except in "extraordinary " circumstances.What Owens and Pryor aren't controversial enough? Wow.

[TayTay]

1. You are missing the big picture

Pres. Bush and the conservative majority had all the cards. All they had to do was hold it together and they got a win. They flexed their muscles and held money, committee apointments and base closures over the heads of their own members. And Frist could not hold his own people together.

The Moderates have just thrown down the gauntlet to * and told him to not try that cramming shit again or the Senate would revolt again. Lindsey Graham was just on MSNBC saying that * has to 'start over' and keep the moderates in mind on his appointments. This is bigger than the damn judges. (Which suck, I agree.) This could be a warning shot that the moderates might not take Bolton being crammed down their throats either.

We didn't have a whole lot to win, when you look at it realistically. Even if we all stood together, the numbers were against us. But the Dems got a spine. (Really.) They held together realistically and strongly for weeks and fought. They raised enough arguments that they scared long-time Senators and denied the extremist right a victory that would have meant a rubber stamp. The victory is not so much the Dems as it is the Moderate Rethugs serving notice to * that they are not his to command.

[saracat]

2. I don't think anything is "bigger than the damn judges" in the final

analysis.Everyone was scared enough that if they had held tight we would have won without this big of a compromise.The repukes have poll numbers on this issue heading south. Many are up for reelection. We could have made a better deal.What if these cretins end up on SCOTUS? that will be the end of the story.And for years to come. The whole issue was about judicial filibusters to prevent that scenario from happening.So we make a deal where we guarantee that will happen?
I understand what you are saying vis a vis the moderates but I am not any more impressed with them than our moderates.They would have come to whatever conclusion necessary to keep their buts in line.As far as serving Bush notice, isn't he a "lame duck "' anyway? And a Lame Duck with bad poll numbers. So they served him notice. Watch how Frist will spin this.He will come across as the great compromiser.But I don't think many will buy it.The only thing is most people don't care.

[TayTay]

3. The Lib groups are callng this victory

We had 5 possible judges up for confrimation votes in the last compromise (Floated last week.) Tonight they went backwards and got only 3.

We do not have the numbers to stop the REthugs. We have 44 Dems and 1 Indy. They have 55. All they had to do was hold it together. They could not do this. We could have lost EVERYTHING including SCOTUS votes. EVERYTHING. We did not. This, considering our numbers, is a victory.

And Democrats are people who compromised for the good of the nation. That is how this will be spun. It was in all the floor speeched. Save the Senate for the good of the people. Well, we saved the Senate.

[saracat]

4. I hope you are right Tay Tay. I think we could have gotten the

Repuke votes as well. They didn't want this either because their constituents didn't.As far as the Libs go, what else would they call it? But even though I know we could have done better, I accept this.It is what it is.I pray it will all be for the best! (And BTW, everythime we have "compromised for the good of the nation", I think we have be prefacing trouble. JMHO)

[Pirate Smile]

5. Right. They get 3 Judges and are dropping 4 others. Considering we are

a Minority by quite a few heads, we are doing a good job of throwing those monkey wrenches around now. Filibuster is still available. Republicans will be attacking and blaming each other now, instead of the Democrats.

I think it is about as good as we could have hoped.

I was not particularly optimistic that we would have won the vote on the floor considering the WH was using bases and anything else they could to twist arms, etc.

Frist hurt his chances. McCain alienates the RW who votes in the primaries even more (I think that is good).

If we would have won on the floor, what do you think would have been the reaction? It could have worked against us. Republicans running against Dems as obstructionists with their wacko base STRONGLY motivated to get up to 60 Senators. Now their base is very pissed at the Republican Party. Hopefully, they will punish them for this failure and not saving Terri. Maybe I am just looking on the bright side.

These Judges suck - NO Doubt but I was envisioning all 7 getting through and us losing the right to Filibuster anyone, INCLUDING potential Supreme Court nominees. Considering that, I feel really good.

The WH wanted the Filibuster gone. They only want to have to get 51 votes. That didn't happen. Thank God!

[ginnyinWI]

6. I think the best part of it is

that Bush got a black eye and now has to admit that he isn't the KING when it comes to nominations.

[sandnsea]

7. They only got 2, if that

Graham said tonight that the "dirty little secret" is that all of these judges don't have the votes in the first place. My guess is Pryor doesn't, as I said in a different thread. That sends a clear message that the senate will not consent to radical fundamentalist judges. If Bush sends someone like that for the Supreme Court, the Dems will have every right to filibuster with the bar already set through Pryor. I'm guessing.