EJ Dionne in WaPo gets it

[TayTay]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/05/19/AR2005051901535.html

Felt needs are piling up folks.

[paulk]

1. one of the threads running through many of the Democrats

speeches in the ongoing "nuclear" debate is the idea that the Republicans are focusing on things that don't matter to your everyday American. Healthcare, education, lost jobs, etc. It seems a good strategy.

One of the bright spots in the last election was here in Colorado, where the voters threw out the Fundies and retook both branches of the legislature for the first time in over 40 years. They just got sick of the constant stupid shit that the far right was tying up government with, while ignoring the state's real problems. I HOPE this is a forerunner of the 2006-2008 elections. Sooner or later this BS has got to catch up with the right.

[whometense]

2. I think we are

all hoping Colorado is the wave of the future. I'm happy to hear you say that. I love Colorado - it's my favorite state after MA and VT. Spent a summer there when I was 10, and went back a few years ago. It's incredibly beautiful.

I heard someone call in to AAR this week and say that Minnesota was going the same way. I sure hope that means bye bye Norm Coleman in 2008 (and hello, Senator Franken??)

[globalvillage]

3. Really?

Most of CO is OK, but Colorado Springs is one of the biggest fundie havens in the US (James Dobson calls it home). I am in CO at least four times a year, and it is the most divided population I've ever experienced outside of Salt Lake City. Seems like half the people you meet are very liberal and the other half are radical Christians. You can count the peace signs and the 'W' stickers on cars, and it comes out pretty even. Extremely weird place, IMO. Even my friends there think it's odd that the two co-exist. CO politics is a lot like CO weather.
On the other hand, the mountains are awesome.

[whometense]

4. Well, I've spent most of

my time there in the Boulder area, so that tells you something, but it's a gorgeous state, and I do love the freakish weather. ;-)

I defer to paulk on Colorado politics - about that I know nothing.

[globalvillage]

5. Colorado, and specifically Co Springs

are incredibly beautiful. Have you ever seen Garden of the Gods? We have spent hours there, just walking. I just wouldn't go there with my Dem sticker or my Kerry shirt. There's some scary folks in them there hills.

[whometense]

6. I was there when I was ten.

It was spectacular - I still remember it.

The last time we went to see the Sand Dunes. Unbelievable.

[globalvillage]

7. I was there Tuesday.

No matter what the politics, at least no one can mess with the awesome scenery. Lots of construction, but from what I've seen, it all seems concentrated in the Denver area, not so much in the mtns or foothills, thankfully.

I always thought Colorado should have been one of the most liberal states. We need to reclaim it.

:hi:

[paulk]

8. "divided population" barely covers it - this state is schizo

you can drive 20 minutes outside of Boulder and be in Alabama.

The split between the radical left and radical right makes things even weirder politically - the fundies grabbed control of the state party about 10 years ago - and it lead to their defeat last year. The lefties are busy trying to take over the state Dem. party - something I think will be equally disastrous for the Dems.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=142&topic_id=3529&mesg_id=3529

here's a thread about it, if you're interested. It's the down and dirty side of state politics.

[TayTay]

9. Is this in any way class related

(Class: the great third rail of American politics.) What are the fundie folks like? Are they Southern in origin? What are the jobs like in that part of the State? What support services are available? Any big unions?

What divides one group from another?

[paulk]

11. I don't see it as class related

It's kind of fascinating what happened to Colorado. It was always conservative, but a kind of midwestern conservatism - fiscal conservatism, but pretty liberal socially. A lot of the western states were that way. Did you know that Wyoming was the first state to give women the right to vote? Kind of off topic, but the situation - small population, a lot of people moving through, not many women - these things drove a more practical politics in this part of the country. Colorado still has common law marriage - three months of cohabitation and you're legally married.

Anyway - the last time a Dem presidential candidate took CO was Clinton's 1st term. There were actually more registered Dem than Rep in '92 (although the independent registration is more than either party). Between '92 and '96 the Republicans took the lead - and now there's more than 200k more (which is a lot out here). What happened?

Well....

I always joke that half of Orange County, LA moved here. And that's not far from the truth. There was a huge influx of people selling their properties in (especially) Southern California and buying property here (where it was much cheaper). Most of these people were Republicans. Hard core Republicans, who immediately began taking over the more moderate state Republican party.

Also - I don't know the exact story, but the Colorado Springs city government got the idea of encouraging religious groups to relocate there. CO Springs is home of the Air Force Acadamy, plus another large military base - so it's always been the state's bastion of Conservatism.

So - we've got a big influx of really conservative Republicans, both fundie and big money types moving here, taking over the party and putting up candidates who are on the extreme fringes of the right wing. The Republicans already here - they ... well, they vote Republican, because that's what Republicans do.

The independant vote is the important vote here. That and the Hispanic vote, which is increasingly gaining influence. Ken Salazar showed that a moderate to centrist Democrat can win a statewide race.

[globalvillage]

12. Paulk would know better, Tay Tay.

I don't really get it. My CO friends and co-workers are mostly quite liberal. They're the ones who tell me about the fundies in the mountains, and that CO residents are either very red or very blue. Denver is huge into tech, a telecommunications mecca. Mostly HQ offices, so I don't think too much union.
As you know, I travel a great deal, and coming from blue Pittsburgh, it can be quite a shock. This week was Denver and Philly, not too bad. Next trip is Omaha, though, and back to Denver. Man, talk about red. I was in Omaha right before the election, and when I traveled last year, I would put a Kerry sticker in the back window of my rental. I don't recall seeing another Kerry sticker in the three days I was there (weird, not too many 'W's either. Maybe it was just assumed). Got some 'looks', but I held my ground and kept the sticker in my window. I tend not to back down easily when I know I'm right (or any other time according to my friends).
On the bright side, I was in a meeting with two of my Omaha coworkers in Philly this week and one is very pissed about the theft of her party. She was raised Repub, but is no fan of this admin's policies. The other, well, he'll never get it.
My travels take me from blue to red to blue, and it's interesting, but not always comfortable. Thankfully, I deal with the same people in each city, so I know in which cities I can discuss politics, and in which I have to know a hell of a lot about the weather and local sports.

[paulk]

13. more...

Boulder - well I can't describe Boulder. Used to be a very liberal college town. Now it's sooo expensive... I hate to use terms like "latte liberal", but it sure fits Boulder. The home of the leftist fringe here in CO. Trust fund liberalism at it's finest. OK - that's kind of harsh - but, I lived there for eleven years - I was a blue collar guy in a white collar world, and when you scratch the surface rich liberals are just as classist as rich conservatives (they just don't think they are).

Denver is the real seat of Democratic power in this state. Denver is the only real major city within 500? miles. We're surrounded by Kansas, Nebraska, Wyoming, Utah. People who don't fit in there come here. Plus a lot of people from everywhere, who've come to enjoy Colorado's wonderful outdoors and laidback lifesyle. Bring your oxygen mask!

Jobs - Colorado isn't a good place for unions - although they are here, and are needed to help Democrats win elections. I'd say that even most Democratic politicians are pretty pro business.


A lot of the old line conservatism comes from the ranching and farming communities, which are still strong. Colorado is a telecommunications hub - so a lot of that work is still around ... (we did get really hurt by bubble burst, though).


There's a lot of division in the Republican ranks between old line moderates and the new fundie types. The 2006 governor's race will be a huge indicator of who's winning. It will be interesting to see who they run.


The Democrats are on the verge of throwing away the gains made in 2004, as the left wing has engineered a coup of the state party as described in the link upthread.

[TayTay]

15. Globalvillage and paulk: Thanks so much!

Don't laugh, but this sounds vaguely (not completely) like Massachusetts. The difference is that we are geographically a very small state, so all ideologies exist side by side, so to speak. Everyone thinks that Mass is so 'true blue' that it's a slam dunk. Yes, MA is the home of Kennedy and Kerry and liberal Cambridge and academia and so froth. But George HW Bush was born in Milton, MA. Grover Norquist comes from Weston, MA. (Heck, the John Birch Society was born in Massachusetts not in some Southern state.)

Some of the 'latte liberal' problems in MA stem from the Busing Crisis in the mid-1970's. Rightly or wrongly, the middle-class white Dems thought of busing as an abandonment of the blue-collar Dems by the rich libs. (Teddy Kennedy tried to make an appearance at a rally in Southie during the height of the troubles and was chased down the street by angry anti-busing people. Imagine that, a Kennedy in South Boston being chased out of the town quite literally.) The way busing (again, not to get into the actual decision, just the implementation) went down, it appeared to Dems in the city that they were being dictated to by an elite group whose children would never have to live with the results. The blue-collar Dems felt betrayed in a fundamental way. This schism exists to this day. That's why rightwing radio has a hold in Boston. That's why Kerry was vulnerable in the Catholic population in last fall's election. (He only won that vote statewide 51-49%) The blue-collar Dems back the elites on economic issues, but is far from a slam-dunk. (And the social issues are iffy. Gay Marriage got implemented, but it didn't cost anything. And it seems to be a non-event. Abortion though, is another thing all together. There is a very strong chapter of Right to Life here. And os it goes.)

I know there are differences and that Colorado is not MA and so forth. But it's interesting to also see the similarities. There have been (at least) two American religions that have MA as their birth place. One is the liberal Unitarian Church (dates back to the post-revolutionary era.) The other is Christian Science. I sometimes think of the differences between the two as the differences in the state.

[paulk]

16. a long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away

1976, actually, I hiked the Appalachian Trail through Massachusetts. The parts the trail went through struck me as pretty conservative, in a rural sort of way. They reminded me a lot of upstate NY, where I grew up. Which is also pretty conservative.

I really feel that the 2004 elections in Colorado hold some important lessons for the Democratic Party (and not just 'cause I live here!)

One of the reasons I defend groups like the DLC on this board is because we need centrists, and centrist organizations, if we ever hope to take back the Congress. Let states like Mass. send the real liberals to the Senate - if the party hopes to win swing states like CO, we need to run moderates - and we need organizations like the DLC.
The Republicans and Karl Rove seem to have a much better grasp on electoral politics than the Democrats. Or at least the Democratic left.

I'm really worried that this grassroots thing is going to blow up in our faces. The grassroots here in CO gave Jerry Brown the primary nod in '96, fer Crissakes! Not exactly in touch with the mainstream.

That's why I'm so upset about the "coup" in the CO state Dem party. The latte liberals of CO don't understand this state, and I'm really afraid that misunderstanding will prove disastrous.



There's something else about what happened in CO 2004 that really troubles me - The Dems took back both houses of the state legislature, we won an additional House seat (plus made another race a lot more competitive than the Republicans expected), and took a Senate seat away from the other side.

So, why did Bush win here?

Neither I, or any of the real world local pundits, or the people who follow this in the CO forum believe there was fraud involved. Bush won by almost the same percentage that Salazar won by. A lot of people split their tickets, and not just for the Senate race.

Could it be true that northeastern liberals can't win in states like Colorado? I do know that there is a definite bias against people from the northeast in these parts. I know because I experienced it first hand when I moved out here. So much so, that I stopped telling people where I was from.

This bothers me a lot, and I don't know the answer.

[TayTay]

17. It well could be that NE libs can't win

Look at Teddy Kennedy. The guy has carried the water for labor for years. His sponsorship of bills that benefit working America is incredible. But he has been slimed by the wingnuts and a complacent media. I think there are certain places that you could talk about his actual record till you were, ah, blue in the face and it just wouldn't register. If you asked who got the amendment to the budget that said we should close the loophoole that allows a tax break for sending American jobs overseas and use that money to uparmor the vehicles of troops in Iraq, they would not answer Kennedy. If you asked who killed this amendment in conference committee, they would not believe it was the Rethugs. I hear ya!

That is Kerrys challenge should he choose to run again. I do believe that he needs to adopt less confrontational language. And tell the truth. Like on abortion. He favors the law as is. He also favors women getting help so they don't get into this situation. One of those positions needs to be emphasized more. It might help, or it might not. We shall see.

We have that centrist fight here too. It's why we have had a Rethug Governor for 16 years. Sigh! This no longer affects Kennedy and Kerry because Teddy is a Kennedy and we have known him for so long and John Kerry is, ahm, John Kerry. (He's the hardest working guy in politics. Gets there first, leaves last. Never gives up, just reloads and refocuses. It's kind of amazing.)

[TayTay]

10. This is the development of the club to beat Rethugs with

* was elected mostly because people didn't want to change Commander-in-Chief in wartime. The fundies want people to believe that * won because they have superior moral values and those values will lead America out of the secular wilderness.

The 109th (weasel) Congress then turned around and enacted 'Tort Reform' that attempts to water down an essential pillar of American freedom; the right of the people to seek a legal redress of greivances against powerful interests. This is immoral.

Then they follow that up with Bankruptcy Reform. This odious bill takes away the fundamental American right, a right that is mentioned in the Founding documents of this nation, for people to seek financial relief of overbearing debt. This is an immoral and unjust action.

The Rethugs attempted to legislate against the right of a husband and wife to decide their own personal life or death issues. Now the Rethugs are screwing around with the sacred American principle that minorities have the right to be heard. This is a classic overreach and a classic misread of the electorate.

If the Dems are smart, they will begin to portray the Rethugs as drunk with their own power and hellbent to remake the American people and their laws in their own image. This is a powerful message that resonantes. People do not like being told what to do but self-righteous and arrogant despots who like to pretend that they only take their orders from God. The smackdown is coming, I'm telling ya!

[JI7]

14. EJ Dionne has always gotten it

he was one of the few that i trusted throughout the primary and general election campaigns. EJ Dionne and that other guy that recently interviewed Kerry when he recieved the Kennedy award.

the thing i like about them is they don't come across as "cheerleaders" for Kerry but rather just do a very good job of analysis and presenting the facts no matter what the issue is. they have criticisms which are useful rather than just useless bashing or repeating some slogan. and they point out the positives also.

with all the whores in the media these days and the leftist counterpunch type crap they really are something i look forward to.