Kos slimes Kerry once again

[whometense]

What a jackass.

for better or for worse: http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2005/5/12/124046/864

Stuff in bold, my emphasis. Have at him, Kerrycrats.

How I feel about Kerry
by kos
Thu May 12th, 2005 at 11:40:46 EST

The Kerry brigades think I have it out for their guy. And yeah, they're probably right.
I think Kerry is a great Senator, but he was a godawful presidential candidate. Of the serious primary candidates, he was the worst we could've nominated. How can I say that?

The man had no reason for running. He had no message beyond "I'm the most electable". Dean was running his anti-establishment campaign. Clark was weaving his sterling military service into domestic issues with his "New American Patriotism". Edwards had the best message of all, talking about the "Two Americas". Yet Kerry had nothing. And while his "most electable" drivel helped propel him into the nomination, it left him ill-prepared for the general campaign.

When your entire reason for running is that you're the most electable, where does that leave you in a general campaign? We saw first-hand where that left him.

One more note -- campaign insiders will tell you that no one loved Kerry. No one had any sense of higher purpose. People who worked for Dean, Edwards and Clark all passionately loved their man. The campaigns stuck together. Why?

Because the campaigns were based in the candidates' home states. Hence, staffers had to move to work on those campaigns. They had to make a sacrifice to uproot and travel to a strange city on behalf of their guy. That commitment was real. And since those staffers knew no one else in these cities, they worked together, played together, and stuck together through thick and thin. It was shared sacrifice, and it translated to genuine affection and commitment to their candidate and their cause.

Kerry's campaign was based in DC. The staffers didn't have to make a commitment to their candidate beyond taking a different bus or metro stop. They didn't hang out after work, since they already had their established social circles in town. There was no sense of shared sacrifice and commitment to their guy. Kerry, the consumate insider, ran his campaign from frickin' Washington D.C. And now he tells us he's an "outsider"?

It was his race to lose, and he lost it. I'll support Senator Kerry to the end of his career, I will not support "I am now an outsider if it'll help me in 2008" Kerry.

[whometense]

1. I am really steamed.

Not going to respond, though, till I cool off.

But it looks like a golden opportunity to flatten him good on this subject, once and for all.

[WildEyedLiberal]

2. This makes me want to vomit n/t

[whometense]

5. It's his site

and he can obviously say whatever he wants to say. But why is he so obsessed with Kerry? Clearly, he (and the echoing Kosbots) see him as a threat.

I'm really starting to HATE these people. Which is why I haven't answered yet. Cool heads.

But, you know, maybe it's better to go in there ANGRY. Maybe is they get a few raging hot responses from Kerrycrats they'll understand that KERRY ACTUALLY HAS SUPPORTERS.

What a nitwit. Who do they think voted for him in the primaries?

ANd one more thing: Anyone here EVER hear Kerry say we should vote for him because he's electable????? I never did. It was my impression that meme was invented by the librul media. Nice going, Kos, you asshole.

[WildEyedLiberal]

8. I'd say something like that

Why is Kos so obsessed with repeating Rovian lies about Kerry?

[sandnsea]

3. Okay, let's put our heads together

We've got to put an end this bullshit. I put my life on hold for two years. My business lost alot of momentum, things I should have been doing that I put off, and am now suffering for. And this mother fucker acts as if I don't even exist. I know alot of us made our own sacrifices. He gets away with this shit because we put the greater good ahead of idol worship. This is the face of the Democratic Party folks. If we don't start making ourselves heard, they're going to take over everything. And we really will be relegated to the wilderness.

[whometense]

I agree.

He's offered us this opportunity on a platter. The question is, what's the best strategy?? Massive bombardment?

Sorry - this was a respone to sandnsea #3

[WildEyedLiberal]

7. What do you suggest we do?

I'm MORE than ready to make another blog entry, but I have three finals in the next two days, so RIGHT NOW I'm swamped and don't have time to write. But please, share any and all insight into what we can do. Right now I'm so mad I'm shaking. Kos is every bit as bad as a freeper, in m opinion. His vision of the Democratic party is one that's completely foreign to me.

[TayTay]

9. Can we find that thread from a little while ago

that detailed what WE felt. There were over 60 genuine responses on that thread that already refute these charges.

We already did this. (heheheheheh!)

The thread was something about meeting or seeing Kerry in person. It gives the lie to what Kos said.

Unless Kos is only basing his report on what insiders think. If he is only giving credence to insiders, then what is his point. If he is crediting outsiders, then we have these people who give the lie to his remarks.

[sandnsea]

12. Yeah, okay

I can put that up on our site. Make a diary at Kos with 20 or 30 of them and link to the rest? I'm thinking of space at Kos, don't know if you can diary that many. Gather up some of the pro-Kerry statements from Kos and other places too? What about the Capwiz idea?

[sandnsea]

10. I don't know

A Capwiz Kerry supporter petition? Statement of what the campaign was about, for those who somehow missed it, signatures?

We are not Deaniacs and why. The Deaniacs are the arrogant wing of the Democratic Party, the ones who have been alienating people in their home communities for decades. (They are here anyway)

I don't know. Brainstorm.

[TayTay]

14. Well, there is Whome, a homey who was there all along.

ANd this:

LONG WAY TO GO FOR VOTE KERRY'S TRAVELERS STUMP IN BATTLEGROUND STATES
Boston Globe, THIRD, Sec. Metro/Region, p B1 10-10-2004
By Globe Staff Donovan Slack, and Globe correspondent Heather Allen contributed to this report.

BENSALEM, Pa. Well-pressed and well-rehearsed, the politician is making his way purposefully up the driveway, as he has done thousands of times in Massachusetts. The Kerry campaign asked him to come to this suburban town of crucial swing voters outside Philadelphia because he is a man who knows how to get votes, house by house.

"I'm Bob Dolan from Massachusetts," he says cheerily when the door opens.

"Who?" says the woman who stands before him, a resident of 30 years named Silvia Veneziale.

The mayor of Melrose, he tells her, without much effect. She might be forgiven for failing to recognize him. She also might not have known the legal counsel for the Middlesex County Sheriff's Department, who is on the trail for Kerry elsewhere in the county, or the Woburn Housing Authority commissioner, or any of the hundreds of lesser political lights from Massachusetts being dispatched on behalf of the Democratic nominee.

The Kerry campaign has reached deep into the lineup for its march toward November, recruiting city councilors from across Massachusetts, freshman legislators, even members of the decidedly low-profile Governor's Council. While such icons of political influence as US Senator Edward M. Kennedy attend big events and high-priced fund-raisers, Kerry's Travelers, as they are called, have been pressed into service for the yeoman's work of door-knocking, phone-banking, and sometimes merely filling chairs. For politicians used to local acclaim, it has meant a certain amount of ego-swallowing.

WHOOPS.... Too much of a post. My bad.

[whometense]

19. I remember that article.

Good one. Care to post it on the Kos thread???

[sandnsea]

23. Yeah, okay, MORE

All those wonderful stories and antecdotes about people who love JK.

So, we'll have personal testimonies from Kerrycrats.
These stories about JK that never made much news.
The ridiculousness of Clark's sterling war record and domestic issues, since JK is the one who has been in the trenches doing the work. Same with JE, Kerry's been making a difference in those people's lives while JE was just talking about it. Anti-establishment Dean? Ha.

Kerry actually IS what these people blabber about. Not a campaign slogan, but The Real Deal. That was always what this campaign was about.

Yes?

[WildEyedLiberal]

24. We should POST ALL THS ON KOS.

God, I wish I wasn't in the middle of writing a final paper due for today, or I'd help you out. :evilfrown:

[whometense]

32. Yes!!!

That's what motivated my post. I won't namecall, and I will be civil, but I want them to know how strongly I feel. If we all let our passion show it can make a difference.

So far my comment has 7 4's - and no insults. I suggest we keep everything we say 100% positive. And NOT get into arguments about 2008 or the campaign. Just make it about how we feel about John.

[whometense]

34. Don't feel guilty.

I just talked to my son on IM, and he's got 1 paper and 2 tests left, and is similarly swamped.

Take care of your work, then you can unload on Kos. :-)

Use your anger to help power your work. ;-)

[Pirate Smile]

4. I'm so sick of Kos. I like going there to see the Diaries and Front

page posts but Kos is sure making it hard with all his crap. :mad:

[politicasista]

6. I am sick of this crap

Nauseating B.S. :puke: :puke: :puke: :mad:

[Dr Ron]

11. I added a couple of responses

His lap dog Armando responded by calling me a prick, etc in response to each post.

In case anyone missed them, check out Light Up The Darkness. I've had two posts which dealt with the Kerry bashing this week.

http://www.lightupthedarkness.org/blog/default.asp?view=plink&id=876

http://www.lightupthedarkness.org/blog/default.asp?view=plink&id=871

[whometense]

38. Amazingly enough,

look what Armando said to me!!!

Great post (4.00 / 3)

Let me tell you, if Kerry has an army of folks like you, then he can win in 08.

by Armando on Thu May 12th, 2005 at 12:43:36 EST

I'm still in shock. But how 'bout that?? Positive stories is the way. "I" statements. What can they really say to someone's honest support for Kerry? If they dump on it they look bad.

[WildEyedLiberal]

51. Army? Hell

He should come check US out sometime. *grumbles about schoolwork*

[Dr Ron]

76. True there is an advantage to positive posts

However, I wanted to make a point of Kos's lying about Kerry calling himself an outsider. That got Armando mad, and led to lots of obscenities being hurled, without any real rebuttal.

[JohnKleeb]

77. ha poor baby cant handle truth

[muse]

86. Poor, poor overly sensitve Armando.

That guy has a SERIOUS anger management problem. Kos encourages him and enables his anti-social behavior.

[europegirl4jfk]

13. "no one loved Kerry" - how can he say that ???

It only shows that he doesn't know Kerry at all, and his relationship with people. I respect Wes Clark and John Edwards a lot (and BTW don't like Dean and didn't since the beginning) but I could never trust them and love them as much as I trust and love John Kerry.

[whometense]

15. My post:

Well, I was going to wait till I calmed down before I responded to this noxious post, but then I thought maybe we Kerry fans have been too calm, so calm that our passionate support for the man has been mistaken for indifference, though I don't know how that is possible.

So let me lay out my position, and then if you all want to dump on it, go right ahead. But let me say right from the start that I have known John Kerry (not on a personal basis, though I have met him several times) for over 30 years, a history that I think gives me the right to say what I say with some authority.

A lot of people on this website insist on misinterpreting him and misreading what he says and does. I don't care what the motives are for this. It is wrong. Attacking a true liberal and a man who has dedicated his life and career to standing up for what he believes is the public good is just as wrongheaded and detrimental to the cause of the democratic party as anything said by either Karl Rove or the Swifties.

I signed on to the Kerry campaign as a lowly volunteer the minute he announced his candidacy. Why? Because in over 30 years I have always known him to follow his conscience. In the course of over 30 years I have seen and come to deeply appreciate the deep morality, the true heart and painful honesty, the dignity and intelligence of the man.

You say no one loves him. Well, you're wrong. Here's one piece of proof: the John Kerry group at DU is by a large margin the largest and most active of all the groups. But we don't need to prove anything to you. I just want you to know that when you spout such crap you're spouting crap.

DailyKos ain't the world, folks. A whole lot of people in this country voted for Kerry because they liked him, no matter what you say here. Because they believed in him. Because they sensed his deep and sincere concern for their worries.

You can keep on trashing him. No one can stop you. But that doesn't make what you say correct. And it won't do a thing to change what I think of him. He has my total respect and admiration, and if he decides to run again I will help him again. In the meanwhile I will defend him when I feel he is being misrepresented, by whoever does it.

[WildEyedLiberal]

17. Nice.

What we NEED to do is start our own organized movement, like the Kosbots have done. We can't stop Kos and his goons from spewing their nonsense, but if we band together, we can create a viable alternative in the blogosphere. There ought to be some way- besides here - a blog or something - that ALL of us Kerrycrats can consolidate into one entity, and become a prescence. We HAVE to fight them for the soul of this party. This is officially an internecine war, and they fired the first shots. If we don't want them to hijack the party, we have to win this.

[politicasista]

18. Nice post whome!

It sounds like they want to manipulate Dean in picking the candidate/nomination. I only read half of it before leaving. :shrug:

[TayTay]

16. Of course, this goes way back.

WITH ROLES REVERSED, KERRY AND DEAN KEEP UP SNIPING
Boston Globe, THIRD, Sec. National/Foreign, p A9 02-09-2004
By and Patrick Healy, Globe Staff Glen Johnson

(A PUBLISHED CORRECTION HAS BEEN ADDED TO THIS STORY.)
SEATTLE - Last March, after falsely accusing rivals John F. Kerry and John Edwards of sidestepping their support for the Iraq war before a largely antiwar audience of California Democrats, presidential candidate Howard Dean decided to make amends.

He sent a handwritten letter of apology to Edwards. Only.

The mutual contempt between Dean and Kerry has only worsened since.

As Dean rose in the polls last fall and became regarded as the party's front-runner, Kerry griped about what he considered soft media coverage and accused the former Vermont governor of double talk on the war, Medicare cuts, and raising the Social Security retirement age. While publicly more cautious and circumspect than Dean, privately the Massachusetts senator was known among aides and fund-raisers to deride not only Dean's political views, but also aspects of his appearance. Within the campaign, Kerry aides came up with a less-than-affectionate nickname for Dean: "Ho-Ho."

Today, their roles reversed since Kerry wrested the front-runner mantle, Dean is struggling to stay in the primary race but is also relishing the renewed media scrutiny of Kerry - which Dean's staff is actively promoting. Dean also is accusing Kerry of double talk on the war, and questioning his opposition to special interests in Washington. In the aftermath of a New York Times story describing Kerry as the Senate's largest beneficiary of lobbyist donations during the past 15 years, Dean aides have come up with their own label: "Cash-and-Kerry." They also ridicule the wealth of Kerry's wife. Dean himself joked publicly about rumors that the senator had Botox injections to remove wrinkles from his face, an accusation Kerry has denied. (CORRECTION - DATE: Tuesday, February 10, 2004: CORRECTION: BECAUSE OF AN EDITING ERROR A STORY IN MONDAY'S NATION PAGES ABOUT SNIPING BETWEEN SENATOR JOHN F. KERRY AND FORMER VERMONT GOVERNOR HOWARD DEAN INACCURATELY ATTRIBUTED A NEWSPAPER STORY THAT CONCLUDED KERRY HAD TAKEN MORE CAMPAIGN MONEY FROM LOBBYISTS THAN ANY OTHER SENATOR IN THE LAST 15 YEARS. THE STORY WAS PUBLISHED IN THE WASHINGTON POST.)
Kerry, 60, and Dean, 55, share little personal history, other than the commonality of their backgrounds (wealthy families, Yale degrees) and their New England home states. They have operated on different planes throughout their careers, Dean as a chief executive in a small, rural state, Kerry in the more rarefied air of Washington. Their mutual ambition to be president, though, has brought them into direct conflict.

Whoops, too much posting.

[TayTay]

20. What, exactly, does this sound like. (Note the date:)

Dean Rips Kerry As Part of 'Corrupt' D.C.
Presidential 02-11-2004
By By ROSS SNEYD Associated Press Writer

MILWAUKEE_Seizing on a fresh report about the financing of critical ads, Democrat Howard Dean assailed front-runner John Kerry on Wednesday for being part of "the corrupt political culture in Washington."

Struggling to right his winless campaign, Dean focused on the disclosure that former Sen. Bob Torricelli, who now raises money for Kerry, donated $50,000 to an independent group that ran controversial ads in three early-voting states.

One commercial showed terrorist leader Osama bin Laden as the group sought to raise doubts about Dean's national security credentials. Other spots focused on Dean's record on NAFTA, his past comments on Medicare and his stand on gun rights.

"The link is unassailable," Dean said, describing Torricelli as "ethically challenged." Amid an ethics scandal, Torricelli quit his 2002 re-election bid five weeks before Election Day.

Cn't post that much. Copyright.

[whometense]

22. Wow.

He IS a Deanbot.

[Dr Ron]

29. Don't show this to them

First they will say that Dean was an outsider. Whle true that he was outside of Washington by being a Governor, being a centrist who worked so closely with Republicans hardly puts him in a better position than Kerry to knock the establishment.

Secondly, they will then claim that Kerry stole this from Dean, as they believe that every good idea Kerry had was stolen from Dean.

Apparently Kerry stole the idea of protesting the Vietnam war from Dean too. Dean sent the idea to Kerry while skiing.

[whometense]

21. Fascinating how

a politician no one likes has inspired 324 comments already.

[Dr Ron]

26. Plus he won the nomination

Clearly Democrats did support him or they wouldn't have voted for him.

Kerry blew out their candidate. It shows that Kos's group is out of sync with the party, not Kerry.

[karynnj]

25. This is asinine

He makes statements, therefore they're true.

As someone who rarely makes a statement without a qualifier in it,, I have a really hard time accepting someone who makes absolute statements like: "Campaign insiders say NO ONE liked Kerry. Even as someone who simply read the MSM, I could list people who were as intensely for Kerry as any candidate's people were for him, many of whom have believed in him for years.

Kerry had a lot of messages, which Kos could have heard, if he listened or read Kerry's positions. Is it Kerry's problem that Kos didn't hear him, if he never listened?

He also seems to mix up campaign slogans with content. Every other candidate he takes using his campaign's slogan, but Kerry's slogan and extensive agenda is considered to be nothing. (Aside: This may be why Kos doesn't see Dean as a relatively centrist governor - he only sees the surface - Dean screaming to take back America and saying he's anti-war. So he ignores 12 years of Dean in office and buys about 4 months of Dean speeches to define Dean. Likewise, he ignores Kerry's over 30 years of near consistent, principled Liberalism, everything Kerry said or did in the campaign, and hates him because he beat Dean.

I really don't understand the nonsense that because Kerry ran his campaign out of DC it required no one to move there. Does this mean everyone lived in DC to begin with? (Weren't there a lot of people out of Boston too?) Maybe the need to go to DC for the Senate at various times made it more convenient to have his headquarters there?

Enough rant, but two questions. 1) If he accepts that Kerry is a good Senator and he is doing his Senate work, why has Kos bashed him multiple times in the last week. 2) If no one likes Kerry why is he worried that people who don't like Kerry will support him for the nomination not once but twice? I know DC is very convenient for everyone, but it seems a strange reason to back him. For a person so disliked all his life to have gotten where he is, he must be absolutely head and shoulders more brilliant, and more capable than anyone else

[politicasista]

27. Agree.

I wish Sen. Babs Boxer would leave Kos. I know she has a deal or blog with him. She is a smart woman to stay there.

[karynnj]

39. I didn't know that about Boxer

She seems to get along very well with Kerry - She refenced some of his points in her Bolton coments.

I actually see this Kos post as more illuminating on his shallowness than on the merits of Kerry or other Democrats. If he continues this I hope other bloggers take over his position of being one of the best known bloggers. I wonder if he's ever met Kerry (or Dean, for that matter).

[politicasista]

41. Someone from a blog at Light Up The Darkness said she signed on

before the Condi Rice hearings. She got a rousing response over her questioning while Kerry's was ignored. I just like how she stood up and challenged the Ohio vote, and I would hate for her to be part of Kos' Rovian-like Cult.

[whometense]

44. He's definitely met Dean.

I doubt he's met Kerry. He's been frozen in this same position for nearly two years now - kneejerk.

I do think if we get over there and post positive stories about our belief in Kerry that we can only do good. We are a highly intelligent, articulate bunch of people.

[whometense]

47. Boxer isn't really part of the Kos community.

She uses the site's popularity to draw attention to her messages - kind of like a community bulletin board. Conyers does the same thing. It's just a way to get the word out - it doesn't mean they endorse Kos's personal views. In fact, I'm quite sure they would oppose his views on Kerry.

[politicasista]

49. Thanks for clearing that up whome

:hi:

[Pirate Smile]

58. Feingold has posted there also, so has Corizine.

[whometense]

42. Great rant.

One thing I do know for sure. I volunteered out of the Boston office, and let me tell you, it was hopping. Maybe the decisions came from DC, but who cares? As far as I could see, there was a huge amount of coordinating coming out of Boston - lots of interns who handed over their entire lives to the campaign.

[WildEyedLiberal]

28. ALSO FOR THE RECORD

Kos is now lying and saying that Kerry himself claims that he is an outsider. THIS IS CATEGORICALLY FALSE. The Boston Globe hinted at that in a story ABOUT HIM. Kerry has NEVER said anything to that effect.

WHY DO PEOPLE TAKE KOS SERIOUSLY? He distorts basic, simple facts to fit his small, black and white worldview.

Just like Bushbots.

[Dr Ron]

30. I've pointed that out

I included that in Kos's initial thread on this and in today's.

They don't care about the truth.

[TayTay]

48. This is completely true

This insider/outsider thing is a false debate. It comes from a misreading of the "felt needs' argument that Kerry has been developing.

News article from U. Texas: Kerry says new plan helps kids
U-WIRE


Kerry also talked about rejuvenating American democracy through continuous engagement.

"What we need to do is put accountability back into our democracy and back into our political process," Kerry said.

Kerry said he felt more energized than ever and is optimistic about the growth of the Democratic Party.

"I don't buy into the notion that the party is out of touch," he said. "We are building a strong grass-roots coalition, and I am really committed to helping our party win back seats in the House and Senate in the 2006 midterm elections."

That's not so outsider.

[Dr Ron]

59. From Boston Globe

It most directly comes from the Boston Globe article.

The Boston Globe article earlier this week called Kerry an outsider. Kerry didn't declare himself to be an outsider. Kos used the article to claim Kerry has been calling himself an outsider in his post earlier in the week, which led to my posts on LUTD.

[JohnKleeb]

31. Thats such crap

Sure he didn't have a direct theme that you noticed off the bat but it was there for sure. No one loved Kerry, Kos? and you invented the question mark too right, a lot of people myself included really loved and admired and still do Senator Kerry a lot. Your dude's big endorsement was the former second highest ranking official in the United States of America, and you think his campaign is anti-establishment, more over, who cares, Kerry's not really establishment or anti establishment. Kerry's never really been a true insider, the leadership establishment in the 80's was critical of him for doing Iran-Contra and BCCI because Clark Clifford, no Washington DC Baseball historians, not Clark Griffith, Mr. Clifford worked in four democratic adminstrations starting with the Truman adminstration and was later LBJ's sec of defense after McNamara retired, he was involved somehow in BCCI and the dem leadership didnt what Kerry involvd. More over, he was passed over not once but twice for the VP pick by Bill Clinton and Al Gore because of his liberalness and outspokeness on some issues that those two men wanted to tone down. I won't lie and say Kerry is an outsider but he's not this extreme insider too. Kos is nothing but propaganda, its already been revealed he did the same bsaic thing as Armstrong Williams did with NCLB, so he really has no room to talk. Seriously just because Kerry didnt have a cute little theme doesnt mean he didnt have a message.

[WildEyedLiberal]

35. Exactly. "Anti-establishment" candidates DON'T get endorsed by AL GORE

Someone say that on Kos, please. I don't have an account.

[JohnKleeb]

37. neither do I

they don't get endorsed by Tom Harkin either, who was at the time and still is the longest serving elected democratic official in Iowa.

[TayTay]

33. Kos won't stop

Screw him

What are the other posters saying? That is what matters. Kos is a lost cause.

[WildEyedLiberal]

40. It matters in that he's like Limbaugh and influences thousands of people

We need to provide a prominent alternative or more people will turn to Kos and his bile for "progressive activism."

[whometense]

54. The usual suspects

are huzzah-ing. It seems to me that more responses are reasonable than not, but it's up to almost 400 now, so it's hard to say.

They operate just like wingnuts. You have to frame the debate to your own advantage; they try to twist everything around on you. I've gotten some sincerely nice comments.

[WildEyedLiberal]

55. I've noticed that the numbers are deceptive

There are the same handful of five-ten or so bashers, generally, repeating their shit all over the thread. One of them said the purpose of bashing Kerry now is to "keep him from running in 2008."

God, now I want to see a President Kerry, not just for myself, but to spite the lefty freeps even more than the righty ones.

Oh and some guy who proudly says he didn't vote Kerry in 04 says "true progressives like DEAN" should lead the party.

IDIOT! :rofl:

[JohnKleeb]

56. Wait are you quoting your ex there?

"Oh and some guy who proudly says he didn't vote Kerry in 04 says "true progressives like DEAN" should lead the party."
Ive always been told by some of his people, Dean's that is that they quote on quote know hes a moderate and they like him for his passion but eh among the rank and file Ive talked to who liked Dean, thats not the case, guy in my carpool for instance, a lady I met canvassing, etc and others.

[GRLMGC]

36. Why is this person considered so influential and important?

Can't people think for themselves? I could probably pull a blog from my ass and spout off stupid bullshit. Does that mean I would become influential and important?

[JohnKleeb]

43. Sure, if you had the connections or pulled some strings

You could, dont know what this guy had.

[GRLMGC]

46. Well shit

then maybe that's what I'll do. Then I can get a bunch of sheep who can't think for themselves hang onto my every word. And it will be sweet.

[whometense]

57. I think what he had

was:

1. Being there first

2. Riding the Deaniac wave to prominence.

What he offered when no one else did it was a community center. Like DU, only with more rancor, given the comment rating system.

Others are coming along now, but many of them are offspring of Kos. Don't underestimate the power of being first. But that said, it doesn't mean permanent relevance, either.

Edited to add: He's bitten himself in the ass more than once by shooting his mouth off without thinking. I'm inclined to think he's picked a bigger fight than he realizes, with this one.

[JohnKleeb]

60. I did some research on kos himself

Seems like hes an army vet and was originally republican, gee, Ive been a democrat longer than this guy and I am 16 years younger than him, I wont say I was born a democrat because thats tacky but when I was like like 3-4 in 1990-1991 one, I used to watch CSPAN with my grandma and grandpa who became in many ways my political mentors, and I was really fascinated by the presidents back then too, still am really, I always most admired guys like FDR and Kennedy, democrats rather than republicans like Nixon and Reagan.

[WildEyedLiberal]

62. We are a proverbial sleeping giant

His idea of "passion" involves running around like a dumbass and screaming, so no, by that definition, we aren't passionate. In his arrogance, he decided that that means we "just don't care."

Oh, we care. We just don't like to start pissing wars. But by Christ, if it's a pissing war you WANT, Kos... well, you got one.

[JohnKleeb]

63. Passion to me

is inspiring a vision of a great country, so to speak politically, so in that way to me Kerry is a passionate guy.

[sandnsea]

50. Just hired by New Democrat Network

To work on a new progressive policy think tank. Is this who we want as the face of the online liberal community? I don't think so.

[JohnKleeb]

52. hahahhaha

Oh man thats irony, I love irony on Thursdays though, goes great with toast. Man, thats funny.

[Pirate Smile]

64. Isn't the New Democrat Network Simon Rosenberg's group which

Chris Heinz belongs to?

[JohnKleeb]

65. Yeah

I think so at least.

[JI7]

70. maybe that's why he praised Reid during the bankruptcy bill vote

and bashed Kerry . because Reid voted for it and Kerry voted against it.

[JohnKleeb]

71. Yeah

because the credit card industry means more than the middle class American :eyes:

[politicasista]

45. I heard some people say Clark's campaign was in chaos or unorganized

It was something I heard while he was in New Hampshire.

[WildEyedLiberal]

53. Someone on that thread ADMITTED that this is about stopping Kerry in 08

BASTARDS.

[Dr Ron]

61. They's stop him in 2008 just like they did in 2004

They don't realize that their opinion is not representative of all Democrats.

[LittleClarkie]

66. Here's what I wrote

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/5/12/124046/864#559

Hopefully it will let me link to just my post.

[LittleClarkie]

73. For those who don't want to go over there

and esp. because the thread is a monster, here's what I wrote:

"You can't say *no one* loved him (4.00 / 2)

because I did. I'm someone.

Over at DU, there is a very active Kerry group. They love him too. They're somebody.

A Kucitizen friend of mine said that he was told by a Deaniac that Kucinich was a good man, but not electable. So that's why this person had picked Dean. The "electable" strategy wasn't Kerry's alone.

I tend to look at it in a different way. Not that he was electable, but that he was qualified. The most qualified in the pack, actually. If that made him "electable" so be it.

There were low points and things he could have done better, but there were high points too. The first debate, for one.

But Kos, I'd like to take you at your word. You think he's a good Senator. Could you, for me, let him be a good Senator? Because you're still campaigning against him as if it were 2003. Could you once in a while notice that he's trying to fight the Bush agenda. WHY he's doing it is open to debate.

I happen to think it's because he knows they're wrong. Others look at him through a 2008 filter and see nothing by campaigning. I find that too distorting, and too divisive. For fuck's sake, it's only 2005. At a time when we need to come together, we're still fighting primary wars.

I'll defend Dean, Clark et al when they need it. Could we have less kneejerk against the man. Less "too little too late".

I still think he's a good man, and would make a fantastic president. Go ahead. Doubt my loyalty. And from what I hear about his staff, they're quite loyal as well. Go ahead. Doubt our loyalty. It'll make things easier for for us when we surprise the hell out of y'all again in 2007.

But it's not 2007. It's 2005. And we have work to do. Get a grip already. I have a Dem Governor to save. Kerry has a Repub Governor to get rid of. We may be leaving our options open for 2008, but that doesn't mean we don't have things to do RIGHT NOW! Could we stop fighting against each other? Please?"

[JohnKleeb]

75. Hey!

Good and true points, I had the Kucinich experience a lot as Kucinich supporter with Dean supporters, "oh we really really like and AGREE with Dennis on the isuse and his world vision but he's just not electable", see thats why I got so pissed when Kerry started winning, these supposed progressives who agreed with Kucinich more were made that Kerry won by saying he was the most electable which was bs. You're right, he is acting like this is 2003. Amen, thanks.

[blm]

67. KOS IS A DUMBASS. Kerry was all about GOOD GOVERNANCE & a stronger, honest

relationship with the rest of the world.

Kos should have watched Cspan more and BITCHED about the corporate media editting out most of Kerry's campaign theme.

There isn't a Dem lawmaker around who has done more to investigate and expose government corruption than John Kerry.

Kos should CARE about good, honest governance and show respect for those who pursue it. Even when dumbasses like him show no appreciation for the work. How old is he, 14?

[politicasista]

68. Hi blm

Love your posts in GDP. :hi:

[JohnKleeb]

69. hey! I was 14 only four years ago

Hes 34 and its ok lol, I agree with you on Kerry.

[blm]

72. Yeah, but the mentally 14 want entertainment from politicians, not

the pursuit of good governance.

You, sir, are a rare exception. You care more about substance than most adults.

[JohnKleeb]

74. Hah thanks

Yeah I agree with you lol, and yes it is a 14ish thing to expect entertainment from politicans, like what they call passion is nice but it doesn't set any thing, but issues and world vision which I think John is one of our best at is what in my opinion makes a good president, check out how I define passion, I define political passion as someone who can make you think of a better tommorow and world and that someone who has that is John Kerry. Oh and ya know I am not the youngest in the group, its our freshman Baker, he recently got elected class president.

[Dr Ron]

80. Kerry was about a lot of things

Some people got it.

Others with smaller minds just looked for the cool slogan.

[WildEyedLiberal]

78. I posted a rebuttal on my blog

Here it is.

[Dr Ron]

79. Great

I'm putting off my rebuttal until this weekend, but I'll be sure to link to yours when I do.

Tonight I had more important things--Apprentice, season finale of Joey, and season (series?) finale of Jack & Bobby (WB shows all delayed a day here). Kos wasn't worth interupting what my wife and daughter wanted to do tonight.

[WildEyedLiberal]

81. Well, I shouldn't have let Kos interrupt my studying

But my anger was seething and NEEDED an outlet. I DO feel better now having written it.

[Firespirit]

82. At least the worthless fuck finally admits it.

(Did I actually call him that??? Wow I'm pissed.)

It's ALL ABOUT being a bad sport about losing -- YES, LOSING, getting fucking TROUNCED -- in the primary, which did NOT happen to Kerry in the general election. Losing? Eh, maybe, maybe not, depending on the scale nationwide of the voter suppression, ballotstuffing, and electronic mayhem. Trounced? HELL NO.

And oh yeah -- he finally owns up to having a personal problem with Kerry.

The Kerry brigades think I have it out for their guy. And yeah, they're probably right.

OK THEN YOU TURD EATER, POST A MF'ING DISCLAIMER ON YOUR SITE that you support Democrats except for him, for your personal "reasons" rather than any legitimate objection to his politics.

"Dean was running his anti-establishment campaign." WTF. What you MEAN, Kos, is that he was selling himself as this anti-establishment candidate and hardcore anti-war liberal when he was nothing of the sort. Duping people like you who look at rhetoric before records.

"It was his election to lose." How ignorant. There was never going to be a landslide. Anyone who seriously entertained that notion was living in a dream world. Contrary to the opinions of some on the "left," there is not a secret, silent, far-left super-majority among the voting population that just stayed home 11/2 because Kerry sucked so bad. The hard fact is that about half of the people registered to vote in this country thought that Bush wasn't all that bad, and when people are presented over and over again with facts, but choose to ignore them, there's not a damn thing that any candidate can do about it.

What a worthless, inane, vapid article. Honestly -- BAD writing (this reads like a sixth grade paper), BAD logic, BAD facts.



:mad: :mad: :mad:

[LittleClarkie]

83. But he coulda won I tell ya

I just went all "waffle-powered Howard" on someone for supporting the liberal centrist anti-war guy who supported Biden Lugar, because he was spouting the "Dean coulda won" crap again. Then he accused ME of bringing up the primaries and their disinformation and not getting over it. How do these people manage to say one thing and then get all hurt when you call them on it.

I said I was sorry, anyway. Because that's not normally my style. And I was just spouting primary rhetoric. I knew I was too. But I was not in a good mood at that moment, and just wanted to stab at the guy alittle.

Oh sure, man, it woulda been Dean in a landslide. That's why he couldn't get his ass out of the primaries. Because he's just that good :sarcasm:

[WildEyedLiberal]

85. DLC MEDIA SKULL N BONEZ CONSPIRACY!!!!!!1

THATS WHY DEAN LOST!!11111

:sarcasm:

These people give me a royal headache.

[WildEyedLiberal]

84. This is such a great, great post on so many levels

I love you :loveya:

[whometense]

87. Will Pitt

has a great response here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x1783367

I LOVE this paragraph:

I saw Kerry with my own eyes sit in Al Franken's living room with Rick Hertzberg, senior editor for the New Yorker, David Remnick, editor for the New Yorker, Jim Kelly, managing editor for Time Magazine, Howard Fineman, chief political correspondent for Newsweek, Jeff Greenfield, senior correspondent and analyst for CNN, Frank Rich, columnist for the New York Times, Eric Alterman, author and columnist for MSNBC and the Nation, Richard Cohen, columnist for the Washington Post, Fred Kaplan, columnist for Slate, Jacob Weisberg, editor of Slate and author, Jonathan Alter, senior editor and columnist for Newsweek, Philip Gourevitch, columnist for the New Yorker, Edward Jay Epstein, investigative reporter and author, and Arthur Schlesinger, Jr., I saw him sit there for three hours and go punch for punch with a dozen high-powered editors and reporters on whatever topics they wanted to touch on. He came out on top. That's a bad candidate?

I don't buy it.