A question for you all.

[whometense]

I've been thinking aboout * and the poll numbers and the Social Security "Bamboozlepalooza" tour, and think that * has reached a tipping point.

There is literally nothing he could say or do to win our approval, since we all see him as a congenital liar (at least, I do). He's proven to me over and over again that he will say absolutely anything in order to get his way, no matter how far from the truth. For the first few years of the first term I wondered, like many many others, whether he was stupid or evil. I no longer wonder. I trust nothing he says.

The question is, what about the people in the great middle who are not watching with our intensity? Has he lost the trust of those people? Do any of you have any evidence either way on this? Has he lied to us too much to win his way back with these people?

I'm really curious to hear what you intelligent, thoughtful people have to say on the subject.

[TayTay]

1. I think he latest actions are splintering his support

The wingnuts still love him because they are lost and believe everything he says. But there are moderate Rethugs who voted for security and to prevent the tax cuts that they got from being repealed.

But the Social Security cuts are going too far. Social Security is only a bad thing to the wingnuts. (And not all of them. Just the wingnuts who believe that any government social program is wrong. There are garden-variety wingnuts who actually live off of SSI. These folks have some tough choices to make.)

I think you're right Whome. I think he has reached his pinnacle and will go down from here.

[ginnyinWI]

2. I know a few moderate-republican types

Two are my sister-in-law and her husband. They would vote Republican usually, but could see the difference with Bush, even before the election, and voted for Kerry. Being in the Chicago, such a dark blue area, probably helped them do that.

My father-in-law, 81, also voted for Kerry although he has been a life-long Repub. Lives in Florida, where I suspect a lot of older, traditional but disgruntled Republicans live. They've lived long enough to understand corruption and recognize a lying politician when they see one!

These two examples from my own family help me believe that Kerry actually got more votes!

A friend of ours, a co-worker of my husband, usually votes Republican. Aside: there is a kind of assumption, around here anyway, that "normal" people vote Republican. The Democratic ticket is for those "other" people who like social programs and don't make a lot of money, and don't care if taxes are high! Even people who are only moderately middle-class around here still like to see themselves as being in the "upper" class. They want to think they are the "haves" rather than the "have-nots". To be a Democrat is like saying that you need help from the government, and that you are failing. But I digress!

So he was talking to me rather apologetically about a month ago, when he was saying that he just doesn't know about Bush, just doesn't really believe in what Bush is trying to do--he doesn't understand him. I think he may have voted for him, but I didn't want to ask. It sounded like he wanted to like Bush and have confidence in him, but just couldn't. Of course he found a sympathetic listener in me! When people talk politics around here, they usually assume we all are Repubs, I guess.

The funny thing is, when you do find a Democrat in the crowd, they are totally engaged. They have strong arguments and have clearly thought them all out. They feel no shame in having their beliefs. The Republicans are a lot more wobbly. They are more involved in their own lives and not thinking about politics or larger issues. I think if we could just get them to THINK objectively for once, they might change their minds. Because their ideas don't really make sense. The ideology doesn't work, when you look at it practically.

So yeah, I think that the more it hits these people's personal lives (like gas prices), the more it will sink in for these non-thinkers.