News from lefty freeperville

[whometense]

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20050407/ap_on_el_pr/dean_supporters_poll_1

Most Dean Activists Don't Back Kerry, Gore

Wed Apr 6,11:06 PM ET

By WILL LESTER, Associated Press Writer

WASHINGTON - Two-thirds of Howard Dean's online activists from his 2004 presidential campaign say they don't want Al Gore or John Kerry, the Democratic Party's nominees from 2000 and 2004, to run for president in 2008, a survey found.

Dean, currently chairman of the Democratic National Committee, was still the first choice of the Dean online activists. Illinois Sen. Barack Obama, former North Carolina Sen. John Edwards and New York Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton got the most other support for a 2008 run, with Kerry and Gore far behind, according to the survey by the Pew Research Center for the People & the Press. Dean has said he will not run for president in 2008.

Most of the Dean activists supported and contributed money to Kerry after he became the Democratic nominee.

Dean had the support of about a fourth of Democratic voters in a national Pew poll in mid-January 2004, with others far behind, but his support crumbled when voting started in Iowa.

Dean activists say they plan to stay involved in politics and the Democratic Party. Half the online activists — well-educated, upscale and from all age groups — say they stay in touch with people they met during the campaign.

"We wanted to know what would happen to this group after Dean lost," said Andrew Kohut, director of the Pew Research Center. "This was the first campaign movement born and nurtured on the Internet."

The survey of 11,568 Dean activists was conducted online before and after the November election and has a margin of sampling error of plus or minus 2.5 percentage points.

[WildEyedLiberal]

1. Go fucking figure

They won't support a real LIBERAL like Kerry, but they'll support Hillary? Or even Obama, who I like but who doesn't hold a candle to Kerry in the liberal department?

These people have no real clue about politics. They hear some hoo-ah rhetoric and they're sold - regardless of what the actual voting record or personal integrity of the candidate may be. Style over substance - that's the hallmark of a typical Dean voter.

[Withywindle]

2. Isn't this survey like 6 months old anyway?

And why is it "news"? Dean supporters prefer Dean? Stop the fucking presses. :eyes:

Totally agreed on style over substance for so many of these people. It will be interesting to see where many of them are in a year or two when Dean's had to wheel and deal and compromise and scheme and politick-as-usual to rebuild the party. I have a fair amount of faith in him as a manipulator and strategist--which is exactly what the Party needs--but it's going to let down people who want the straightforward firebrand.

Obama in '08, good lord. First Black Pres a 40something first-term Senator? When pigs fly. He's not that naive, fortunately, but it looks like some of the survey respondents are.

And for alleged "Democratic wing of the Democratic party" types to support Hillary over Kerry makes so little sense I don't even know where to start with the snark.

[karynnj]

3. Very stupid study

As you say it was taken right after the election. It sampled Dean on-line activist, but talks about Dean having a fourth of the Democratic vote in January 2004. The activist are not representative of all people who said they were for Dean and January, 2004 was likely the peak or near the peak of Dean support. Also wasn't that the height of the Kerry should not have conceded even though he had no proof and would have looked like a lunatic time?

The real question is who put this study out and why? Can we do a study on this group, or more fairly on the johnkerry.com site.

[LittleClarkie]

4. Dean hadn't even announced he was thinking about the chairmanship yet

So yeah, it's kinda out of date.

[whometense]

5. good points, everyone,

and sorry. I should have done more research before I threw it up, but I was in a hurry.

The original research is here, and it's pretty detailed and informative in its own way - mainly, who are these Deaniacs??: http://people-press.org/reports/display.php3?ReportID=240

The Dean Activists: Their Profile and Prospects
An In-Depth Look

Released: April 6, 2005

Although former Vermont governor Howard Dean failed to win the Democratic presidential nomination, his campaign left a strong imprint on the political world. It assembled a network of over a half-million active supporters and contributors, raised over $20 million in mostly small donations online, and demonstrated the power of the internet as a networking and mobilizing tool in politics.

Who are the internet activists ­ the people widely known as "Deaniacs" ­ who joined the Dean campaign as it slowly grew from asterisk status in early 2003 polls to the frontrunner position at the beginning of 2004? A new Pew survey provides the first detailed look at the cyber-soldiers of this pioneering campaign. An internet survey with a random sample of 11,568 activists drawn from the online database of those who had contributed money or otherwise worked on behalf of Gov. Dean provides insight into who they are, why they joined, how they reacted to Dean's loss and President Bush's reelection, and what they think about the future of the Democratic Party.1

The survey was conducted in two waves: one before the election (Sept. 13-Oct. 12), and a second after the election (Nov.18-Dec. 14).

[whometense]

7. It seems to back up one thought I had,

just from personal observation - that a lot of the Deaniacs were middle-aged ex-hippie types.

This is interesting:

[BlueIris]

6. Alright, everyone, I confess...

much as I dislike Howard Dean, I can't bring myself to hate his supporters. The way they feel about him is the way I feel about Senator Kerry. So, I can understand why they would still be hurt and angry and confused about the question of who should be president. Doesn't mean I can be in the same room with them for very long, but I try not to antagonize them, either.

[LittleClarkie]

8. Indeed, but sometimes it doesn't take much

you can sometimes rile a Deaniac by making what you might consider a legitimate observation. But I try to make peace where I can.

I don't mind their enthusiasm, as long as they know the facts and understand the system somewhat. Some still don't understand what a DNC Chair can and cannot do, and I've run into a couple who are having fits now because Dean isn't terribly visible.

Geez, I'm not even a supporter, and I can give the guy a break. Hell, I rather need him to succeed, so it doesn't seem terribly smart to bitch and moan about what he's not doing yet. He only really JUST got in there.

I will be pissed, however, if he does try to run for Prez too. That would be shortchanging his new job. And it's a job that needs full attention right now.

[WildEyedLiberal]

9. I've met Deaniacs who refuse to see any reason or reality

THEY drive me nuts more than Dean himself, although to be honest, I wasn't paying enough attention during the primaries :blush:

[BlueIris]

11. Oh, I hear you on that, though.

Shhh, don't tell, but I actually had to stop attending a volunteer group I worked very closely with during the election cycle because of that problem. They're good people, honestly, and the magnanimity they showed JK's campaign during the summer and fall was awesome, I thought, considering how passionately they had all supported Dean in the primaries. But after the election, THEY WOULD NOT STOP with the Kerry-bashing. And if they weren't constantly insulting him, or flat-out lying about him, they were screaming about the way he "should have done something" about the election scandal--stood up on Jan. 6, protested, whatever. When I tried explaining why I don't believe Kerry personally had many, if any, options with regard to "protesting" his stolen election, or why what they were suggesting would not have worked, and politely pointing out that Dean didn't exactly "do much" either--well, I'm sure you can imagine how that went over. So, because psychologically I couldn't have all of my good volunteer buddies ripping my guy all over the place for no justifiable reason whatsoever, I left. I don't know if I'll go back. I still have ways to continue my activism, and I miss them, but that environment wasn't right for me after November. People weren't thinking and weren't being productive (or respectful). Frustrating.

[WildEyedLiberal]

12. I wouldn't go back

Demonstrable inability to reconcile oneself with reality is a fatal flaw, methinks. I'd find a more realisitic, pragmatic liberal group. I've been searching in vain for one myself.

[LittleClarkie]

18. I was happy to meet a DUer here who goes to DFA meetings

but who is solidly Dem and connected to reality. Like Elshiva, he liked both Dean and seems alright with Kerry as well. He's active both in the Dem Party and in the Dean group.

So it's not all Deaniacs, and it's not even Dean really.

I guess all the different pols have a few annoying supporters. Even some of our Kerrycrats can occasionally make me cringe, though I think many of those are bye bye now.

[saracat]

10. This is the same topic and I was really

pissed. Thanks everyone .I was really swimming upstream for a while!:banghead: :bounce:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=1709023&mesg_id=1709023&page=

[wisteria]

13. This really annoyed me too.

I never even gave Dean a 2nd look when he was running in the primaries. What ideas and opinions did he run on besides his anti- war position? Some of these Dean people seem to think Kerry and/or the DNC/DLC somehow stole the election from Dean. I think this reasoning is absolutely wrong. Kerry won the primaries fairly. He was more presidential and electable. I think some of the Dean people resent Kerry for no other reason than he beat Dean. IMO, many do not understand the give and take of politics. I did support Dean for the DNC position though. I thought he would be enthusiastic and bring fresh ideas to the stale lethargic DNC. This all said, I got to thinking maybe we shouldn't waste our time the unreasonable and concentrate on the 1/3rd who are persuadable.

[LittleClarkie]

14. Some folks absolutely think Kerry stole it from Dean

I've heard Dieboldish theories, since they think Kerry came out of nowhere. I've heard stories about all the other candidates ganging up on Dean. There's "the Scream," of course.

Shouts of "no fair!" abound. As if Bush was going to be fair in the general election. I say if you couldn't cut it in the primaries, then you were going to be eaten alive in the general election.

Then there are the folks who make fun of Kerry's "electability" as if it were some phantom thing that didn't really exist since, you know, he didn't get elected.

I think he was electable because he was one of the better qualified, meself.

[karynnj]

15. But Dean really lost when he was #3 in Iowa

and they had caucuses - how can they explain that with machine fraud.

[WildEyedLiberal]

16. Because they're whiny and detached from reality?

That's my best guess.

[LittleClarkie]

17. I think the machines were in NH

and I think they explain Iowa away because Kerry's friend Vilsack is there. I'm not sure how Vilsack was supposed to have swayed folks to vote for Kerry, something about selling him as "electable" which some folks again think is the wrong reason to vote for someone.

But he's not "electable" because he was more hawkish and a vet. He's more electable because he has experience in small business, and foreign policy, and a myriad of other areas. He's presidential, to boot. I'm sorry, but image is part of it whether we want it to be or not.

There was that strange vibe early on though where the party seemed to be looking for a military man because they thought that's what could beat Bush because of 9/11. That's why Clark was drafted, it seemed. And perhaps indeed it's why some people thought Kerry was "electable." But even those people were missing all the other reasons Kerry was a good candidate.

[BlueIris]

19. I've heard these stupid theories, too.

I tell Dean supporters not to try to feed me that "Kerry STOLE the nomination from Dean" line unless the want me to explain how Dean actually tried to "steal it" from Kerry--and all the other candidates gunning for the spot. Jesus.