Canonical list of reasons for the loss according to Lefty Freepers

[TayTay]

Canonical list of reasons people use to blame Kerry for the loss of the election. (Screw them.)
This is intended to be a shorthand list so that we can understand what the threads on DU GD and P are saying without having to actually read them. (Example: What did they say this time? Oh, it was 1 and 7 and some 4. Maybe some A mixed in. Oh, jerks.) Rethuglican points are in here because they are all stupid and without merit, but amused the hell out of me.


Lefty freeper reasons that Kerry lost that drive us crazy. (Screw them)
1. Conceded too soon --tt
2. Didn't fight hard enough --tt
3. Was too much of a Massachusetts liberal --tt
4. Didn't have a Southern strategy --tt
5. Didn't use Edwards in a strategic way --tt
6. Is not a great communicator --tt
7. Didn't have clear positions --tt
8. Had the wrong wife --tt
9. Didn't make me an official adviser. (Was therefore doomed.) --tt
10. Didn't know the words to "Lift Ev'ry Voice And Sing" -- Politicasta
11. Panders too much to different groups. -- Politicasta
12. He doesn't connect with me. -- Politicasta
13. He's wishy washy -- Politicasta
14. He speaks in sentences that are too long. Why can't he speak in sound bites? -- ginnyinWI
15. He hasn't done anything in the Senate since the 80s--the last time he showed any backbone at all -- ginnyinWI
16. Too serious, not a joke teller like Clinton -- ginnyinWI
17. Too far left--we need Repub-lite in order to win. -- ginnyinWI
18. Campaign managers: should have fired them all, should have listened to X, Y or Z. -- ginnyinWI
19. He undermined Howard Dean's campaign with dirty tricks--and Howard would have won the general -- ginnyinWI
20. He made too many unrealistic promises,right at the end of the campaign -- ginnyinWI
21. The IWR and Patriot Act Votes. -- Politicasta
22. He's not the Kerry of the 70s. -- Politicasta
23; He's a DLC sellout. -- Politicasta


Repuke reasons for not liking the beautiful and vivacious Teresa. (Screw Them)
A. she is too opinionated, -- ginnyinWI
B. she is too wealthy, (making JK a gigalo, of course). -- ginnyinWI
C. Oh and she wears clothing (scarves) that look too "latin". -- ginnyinWI


Rethuglican crap: (Oh lord screw them blind.)
a. Looks French
b. Speaks French
c. Understands the French
d. Has a nuanced view of the world
e. Knows what nuanced means, in the dictionarial sense
f. Has an aloof problem.
g. Keeps aloofs as house pets and they might be French (They sure sound French.)
h. Ordered Swiss cheese on a Philly Cheese steak
i. Never ordered Freedom Fries (Not once. Not even to go with the Swiss cheese Philly Cheese steak.)
j. Mixed up Lambeer Field with Lambeau Field. (OMG. How could he?) Thanks Ginny!
k. Loves his wife and listens to her opinion. (This is what Frenchies do.)
l. Forgot he drove an SUV. Or that someone in his family had an SUV. Not sure about this one.

[Goldeneye]

1. apperently Kerry wasn't energetic enough either.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=1701893&mesg_id=1701941

[TayTay]

5. Not energetic enough!

Ahm, I don't think they were paying attention at all. I think Sen. Kerry is very, ahm, energetic. We have action pcitures around here somewhere and that can prove the point.

I thought he had a lot of energy. He was a tall, lanky, smart, energetic and wonderful little ball of perpetual motion. (Oh dear, this is not going well. Let me try and redirect my attention.) Ahm, in my imagination, he was in constant motion.... (I quit.)

[Vektor]

2. He's too effin' sexy!

That's what it is. Too hot beefcake. The American people felt threatened, yet enticed. They feared his manhood.

He's too sexy to be President. The women of America would have all spontaneously suffered uterine implosion had he been elected.

No one would have been able to take him seriously as an authority figure. They'd all be too busy staring at the WMD.

[JohnKleeb]

3. I wouldnt be staring at the WMD

I would be staring at the productions of the WMD though, Vanessa and Alexandra.

[Vektor]

7. So you see...

No matter how you look at it, the entire bloodline is too damn sexy.

[elshiva]

18. BAHWAHHHAHAH

:rofl:

[WildEyedLiberal]

4. OMG VEKTOR

LONG TIME NO SEE!!!

[Vektor]

6. Helloooooo!

How are you?
:hug:

[WildEyedLiberal]

8. Eh, allright, all things considered, I s'pose

:hug:

I haven't been around a ton lately either, what with school and spring break and all.

[Vektor]

10. How are school

and spring break going? Have you been doing anything fun?

[WildEyedLiberal]

11. Spring break was fun

I went to DC and Philly - stopped by His office, but He wasn't in town (sob).

School's ok. I broke up with my boyfriend, so things have been a little rough. But I think I'm getting back into the swing of things.

[Vektor]

12. I'm sorry...

:-(

..both about the BF and JK being out of town when you stopped by. What fun to go to Philly and D.C.! Sounds like a blast. Heeey...did you ever apply for that internship?

[WildEyedLiberal]

13. No, I'm gonna take summer classes

I have decided I will do it either next summer or one of my senior semesters. (Or, earliest, spring of next year). I needed to take some summer classes to get some general education crap out of the way.

But yeah, the trip was fun. Got some sweet rare Kerry buttons in DC, so I was all happy about that. But now I don't know what to do with them....

[elshiva]

20. Hhehehe! But I don't think the freepers use that one!

:rofl:

[ginnyinWI]

9. LOL

There will be more of them too, trust me. They'll keep thinkin 'em up as fast as you can write them down!

:rofl: :applause:

[sandnsea]

14. lol, and one more

He's ghoulish.

[TayTay]

21. Okay, are you serious?

I am putting this one in Rethugland. Is this the weird Munster thing like on the parody song "This Land"? Cuz I just don't understand that and don't 'see it.' (I know, I know, truth is no defense in Rethugland, but still, I can't see their point on this one. I thought that was totally farfetched and a reach even for Repukes.)

[sandnsea]

23. It was primary land

Somebody, who has since been tombstoned, used to have this Kerry-tree graphic thing that he posted in every single Kerry bashing thread. I can't even remember all the horrible things people said, and the poor guy was coming back from cancer surgery too. Assholes.

[JohnKleeb]

24. Dont remember them

Sigh. Shit like this is wrong.

[TayTay]

25. Ooh, I heard that one

Kerry is an ent. He is very tall, somewhat wooden, and speaks in a language that is not easily understood by others. Okay, I can put that one in under Dems. (And he writes poetry. Okay, he might be an ent.)

[Withywindle]

34. Need some wood?

Hoom, hoom!


:rofl:

[karynnj]

36. What's an ent?

I was surprised that they kept saying he looked like one of the Munsters - as he was quite obviously at least reasonably good looking and always looked nice. As a 10 year old in 1960, one of the things that mystified me was that some of the kids with Republican parents went around singing a stupid jingle that criticized Kennedy's looks. (and their candidate was the very good looking Nixon). I think it was "Kennedy ain't no friend of mine, he resembles Frankenstein and when he does the Irish jig, he resembles Porky pig" I was for Kennedy and I was part Irish, so all it did was get me mad.

Frankenstein, Lurch the Republicans have a real problem with handsome men from Massachusetts.

[ginnyinWI]

38. an ent is from Lord of the Rings

The ents were trees come to life. They could talk (slowly) and walk, and they were on the good guys' side. In the movie they were like oak trees, with their faces right in the bark of their trunks. Just picture an oak tree with eyes. Hm maybe I can find one on the web for you.

[karynnj]

39. Thanks, I should have asked my husband

He has the DVDs. I read the books over a semester break in college, but never really got into them. I was never really into fantasy books. The ent does have a certain majesty in your picture, like a kindly old King.

Kerry does not look like that ent and (until this last week) he seemed the fastest moving Senator when they went down for votes!

[ginnyinWI]

40. I know

It seems like more often the truth is opposite of what they are smearing a candidate with.

There was a time when an accusation needed to be true, or at least partially true to be effective. But that was then. Today's people are ignorant enough to believe just about anything.

[TayTay]

41. WEL is going to kill me

Flat out kill me. I think there is something wrong with my humor-meter this week. I keep posting things that are mildly amusing (well, to me at least) and they end up being offensive. (I really like ents. They are wise and powerful and loyal and can kick some bad guy ass when the occasion allows. They are good guys in every sense of the word. But they can be a bit slow to rouse. But they are quick and deadly and fierce when aroused. Hmm, all in all, not bad.)

I have never heard that Kennedy jingle. Wow! And I can't figure out the denigrations used on Kerry either. I just chalked it up to Rethug repulsiveness and their ability to turn anything around so that it appears to be the opposite of what it actually is.

Hmm, when I look over this list, I wonder why anyone, ever, anywhere would want to run for public office. Honestly, it takes such fortitude to just keep plowing through. I admire that, I really do.

[karynnj]

45. I actually hesitated to write it because it was so obnoxious

The area I grew up in was heavily Democratic, but among the Republicans there were some precursors to Rush Limbaugh. Part of it had to do with Kennedy being Catholic. Slightly less than half the people in my town were Catholic. The mother of one of my best friends hated me when she found out I was Catholic.

I figured that writing it would show that some of this ugliness probably has lurked in the shadows for generations. With Kennedy, I think this bit of nastiness was useless, as anyone who saw a picture of the man would think the writer crazy. With Kerry, the accusations went beyond those that could be easily and clearly seen to be false. Although with any logic, Kerry, brilliant as he was, could not have fooled the navy into giving him awards by writing fictitious accounts of their missions. These would have immediately have been seen as out of line with the reports of the other Lt's of the other ships and Kerry would have been reprimanded,not given awards.

I would imagine that anyone choosing to run next time will have to think about whether they and their families really want to be treated this way. With Kerry, it's particularly hurtful as he really does seem to have conscientiously avoided the corruption that is available to any high level politician. With no large scale corruption for the opponents to point at they opted to have mainly an "independent" character assignation against him and Teresa. From his actions after the campaign, it almost seemed that the attacks on Teresa bothered him more. I just hope over time, these attacks are seen for what they were.

I sometimes wonder if his biggest problem with the corporate media didn't stem from the fact that he less than anyone other than Wellstone or Feingold was not "bought" and for that reason he scared them.

[emulatorloo]

15. A friend of mine says Kerry did not reach out to minorities, and therefore

minorities did not come out to vote for him.

Additionally according to this friend, Minorities were overcome and bursting with wild wild wild enthusiasm, to vote for HOWARD DEAN in the general.

No I am not making this up, and the facts don't influence him.

[politicasista]

16. I have been saying that for a while

A lot of minorities thought it was going to be Dean in the GE cause of his anti-war stance and domestic issues (The Congressional Black Caucus endorsed him), I think once Kerry got the nod, it was more about "the lesser of two evils." Sadly, I don't know anyone (minority)who actually supported Kerry in the primaries. The media kept repeating over and over (before Jesse Jackson and Rev. Al came about) that black support for Kerry was "muted, ho-hum" and people didn't warm up to him like they did with Dean, Edwards, Clark or B. Clinton. Plus, Bush was making inroads with minorities b/c the religious views.

I was one of those who constantly criticized the campaign for not reaching out to minorites sooner rathen than later. And the media, along with Russell Simmons and P. Diddy reapeated the same thing (I heard this was a reason that young people didn't turn out also). After the first debate, one lady in a salon was telling me how thought Kerry won the first debate, but the closing was disappointing. She felt like we should have nominated someone else because he didn't seem to inspire people to want to go out and vote for him.

[JohnKleeb]

17. Kerry had an early endorsement from Greg Meeks, a New York Dem

as far as black endorsements go and Antonio Villonoriosa(sp?) who could be or is the next mayor of La. When Kerry started winning I do know that John Lewis endorsed him though.

[TayTay]

22. I wonder if Kerry starts out at a disadvantage

because he is a New Englander. There is a social disconnect, especially if you are comparing Clinton to Kerry. Clinton was a product of Southern culture and could more easily relate to African-Americans because they had intersecting cultures. (And didn't use terms like 'intersecting cultures.' Hmmm, gotta work on the language, I guess.)

Plus, some southern states are 25-30% African American. New England has much, nuch lower percentages of AAs. (Although that is changing as regards immigrants from the Caribbean and Latin America.) And we are a heavily Catholic region of the country. (This becomes relevent in common speech references and use of Biblical references.) Is it possible to change this or are these attitudes too ingrained?

I always feel funny asking you this. I am not asking you to be 'a black spokesperson' because that seems so odd and unfair. (I always imagine that the correct response is, "TayTay, as a white spokewoman' which is silly. Well, am I in effect asking you to be this? Am I just too liberally pure for my own good in letting this bother me?) Does this bother you? Just wanted to ask, and I hope this is not awkward for you, cuz you can disregard it if it is.

[politicasista]

26. No, not a problem at all

As far as disadvantage, I don't know. I know everytime someone describes Boston, it is a negative (racist, arrogant). I agree with your assessment of Clinton, and I thought it was unfair to compare Kerry to Clinton because both have different governing styles.

I should use our governor (TN Bredesen) for example. He is native northeasterner (upstate NY). He and and his wife moved to Nashville after she got a job in the healthcare business. Some folks at first could not relate to him cause of his background, but he did a good job with our city. And as he was running for governor, he learned the politics of the South. I remember he campaigned in rural and urban areas. In fact, after the election, he went all across the state thanking his supporters. I remember him mentioning while Kerry was here that the campaign could have spent money in rural areas like he did when he was running. To his credit, he has done a decent job (despite the TennCare mess) considering he has had to clean up the mess our last repuke governor left. (Hope I wasn't trying to get off the subject)

Back to Kerry-Clinton. I think the problem was that many minorities were expecting Kerry to "move them" like Clinton did. Lots of people were spoiled by him, (i.e. Toni Morrison calling him "the first black president"). I will always like Clinton, but we need to realize there will never be another Clinton. Actress Alfre Woodard (a full Kerry supporter)said it best, "sure we want some flava in the speech, but we can't sit around and wait for someone to move our souls." We have to make a difference." I was just mad (and still am) about the negative publicity Kerry got from us during the campaign. I almost feel like we were asking for another "four years of hell" anyway.


P.S. I don't blame Kerry for this, I blame his campaign managers. I do like the fact that he (yourself, whome, and rox) are trying to erase the stereotypes of about Bostonians, or Massholes (hope you don't mind me saying that). :)

[TayTay]

28. No, we are Massholes. We like it.

It's distinctive. The funny thing about Massachusetts is that we seem to be seen as this great bastion of liberalism, and I guess compared to Utah, we are. But we need work to really go forward in terms of getting minorities represented in local and federal office. I still see resistance to this, but it is getting better. (Baby steps, sigh, baby steps.)

But we have a mixed record. The first popularly elected African-American US Senator was Ed Brooke, from Massachusetts. (A liberal Republican.) (http://bioguide.congress.gov/scripts/biodisplay.pl?index=B000871) I remember him very well. He was an elegant man, in the same sense that Rep John Conyers from MI is an elegant man. (You want to use the honorific 'Sir' when you meet him, because he has a dignity about him that is just there.) Sen. Brooke was defeated by Paul Tsongas in 1978. (Who retired in 1984 due to illness and his seat was taken by, ahm, John Kerry.)

I read an article in The Atlantic sometime last year that talked about southern Dem women and how they have a particular script to follow in getting elected. (Always be well-dressed and never wear pants. Be smart but not too assertive and so forth.) That would never, ever play up here. It just wouldn't. We have different styles. I wonder if we will ever get to a common ground that includes respect for each other's traditions. (And so much of Southern culture is the foundation for AA culture. Is this right?)

And I love hearing about Tenn. politics. I have been folloiwng Harold Ford and his possible run for Frist's seat in 2006. I know Ford is a moderate Dem, but that would be an amazing pickup. Keep me informed.

[politicasista]

31. I sure will

They are after his uncle John (he is a state senator from Memphis) intensely the last three month. Looks like the smear campaign has begun.

BTW: PITA posted about that lady that spoke out against SS privatization, I read her transcript and she was good. As far as Dr. Susan Rice being from Atlanta, I am not sure. I think she is from up north. She did something in the Clinton administration. Can't remember what it was though. She was also part of Kerry's debating team, which did an excellent job exposing Smirky and his "hard werk." On the flip side, Kerry got some good debate reviews from minorities. I think that's when many saw him in a different light.

[JI7]

32. i think a lot of people did after the debates who didn't really know him

before.

they were just used to hearing what others would say and all the negative things. but when they actually saw him for himself at the debates (and convention speech) but especially the debates since it was the first comparison between him and Bush side by side they saw what he was really like. and it wasn't all the negative things the media tried to make him out to be.

Bush didn't come across as likable or a leader as the media kept repeating. Kerry came across as tough and on message.

i think if people could have seen this real image instead of the media lies it would have helped a lot more.

that's why it's important to try to meet people directly. this is easier in the primary campaign then the general election though. but Kerry is well known now and if he starts right now as he is doing with social security and kids health care and going around the country talking to people about it they will see what he is really like.

[elshiva]

19. Thanks! This a great reference tool!

[Firespirit]

27. You forgot Skull and Bonezzzz

He made a pre-election Skull and Bones deal with Bush and was never serious about becoming president. :tinfoilhat:

:eyes:

[TayTay]

29. OMG!

How could that not have been mentioned until now? I am going to have to put that one first and renumber.

Wow! That's almost as strange as the time we had a picture thread and no :evilgrin: showed up until about 25 pics had been posted. Wow. I can't believe this didn't come up sooner. Perhaps I was blocking.

[GRLMGC]

30. The most important one!

#$*&)^@*%!

[Withywindle]

35. Does that include...

...the "hairy palms" (very apt, LittleClarkie!) variation of this theory? *twitchtwitch*

[TayTay]

33. Best ever, ever, ever stupid reason for not liking Kerry

Pure Masshole. (Some of us suck, you know.)

People on Beacon Hill were mad because he and Teresa didn't give out candy themselves on Halloween. Apparently, it's a tradtion that people on Beacon Hill give out their own candy on Halloween and one year they were otherwise occupied. It created a big stink, so the next year they handed out candy themselves.

Next year, I'm trick-or-treating on Beacon Hill. Fuck! (I cannot think of anything that is pettier than this. Yup, must be from Boston freeptards. On the other hand, hmmmm, who knew you can meet John Kerry on Halloween and get some sweet treats.)

[Siyahamba]

37. 17 and 23 cancel each other out.

Is he too liberal or not liberal enough? They just can't make up their minds!

[BlueIris]

42. And #8 from the first part of that post? SCREW THAT.

That entire list is making my head spin. As if the Governor of Colorado isn't making my migraine bad enough.

[TayTay]

43. These were intended to be listed once,

then ignored forever. These are the canonical list of dopey reasons why Kerry lost. They can't be proved. They apparently can't be reasoned with either. But we know them. So when someone goes into DU Gd or such and starts bad-mouthing the Senator we can just say, yeah, it's a 6 and an 8 argument (or something) and then pass it on by.

These excuses are lame beyond belief. We in this JK forum know that. But it is also good sometimes to be armed against folly as a both an offensive and a defensive thing. You know, know thy enemy. Know his/her arguments. Then build a better, more comprehensive and more logical set of arguments against these weak ones.

Gee, maybe I'm crazy. I do this reflexively. That way, nothing said bothers me so much my brain ceases to function. I know all the bad things that can be locked and loaded into a debate and I am prepared against them. Is that crazy?

[elshiva]

44. This is one important list, TayTay, Thanks!