Senate Dems and the Schiavo case:

[TayTay]

Yeah, I'm sick of hearing about it too. But this story does have a quote from Kerry in it.

http://www.insidebayarea.com/news/ci_2618508

[ginnyinWI]

1. I think the Senate Dems did the right thing

They kept their hands off it as much as they could. It would only have given the repub senators a reason to blast them, and this issue has, fortunately, been limited by Sen. Levin to just this one case and sets no precedents. Funny how the repubs have been so willing to trample on states' rights for the sake of pandering to the religious right.
The hypocrisy is startling--the repubs will go to battle over one woman who apparently never wanted this kind of life-sustaining treatment in the first place, but ignore all of the sick and dying people in this country (and around the world) who desperately need better health care.


I was listening to callers this morning on Cspan Washington Journal. So many of them are so ignorant about the facts in this case. Somebody has been lying to them again!

[Pirate Smile]

5. Here is Kerry's quote and some additional info for people who

don't have the time or motivation to go to the link:

"Jane Andersen, a spokeswoman for Sen. Carl Levin, D-Mich., who played a key role in narrowing the original bill's scope to just the Schiavo case, said the situation in the Senate was very different from the situation in the House.

In the House, members were voting on the bill. In the Senate, if members had objected, they would have prevented a vote on the bill.

"It would be like filibustering a bill rather than just voting against it," Andersen said.

Larry Sabato, head of the Center for Politics at the University of Virginia, said the "Democrats folded early ... but they knew that this was a no-win for them."

With the Christian Coalition urging swift action on the bill over the weekend and calling Democrats "the party of death," Sabato said "Democrats are seen in many red states as the party of secularism and humanism. ... Politically, they were smart to drop any opposition to the Schiavo bill."


April Boyd, a spokeswoman for Sen. John Kerry, D-Mass., said the former presidential candidate agreed that Schiavo's parents should be given a final appeal but "any intervention by Congress is temporary and Mrs. Schiavo's family must come together."

"It's a question for her family, and their doctors, and their faith," he said. '

[saracat]

6. I guess I disagree with Kerry on this. They were given their

"final appeal" years ago. I wish he had been firmer, but that is what I believe and it may not be what he thinks. I just disagree!

[TayTay]

8. I agree. This should not be in Congress

at all. It is a clear violation of the separations of constitutional powers. This matter was adjudicated ad nauseum. I think Kerry was right when he said that it is essentially a family matter. Congress should never have gotten involved.

[TheDonkey]

2. how did Kerry vote on this issue?

[whometense]

4. He didn't vote.

As far as I understand it, there were only three senators present for the voice vote, and Kerry wasn't one of them.

[sandnsea]

3. I understand their decision

Especially in light of Jesse Jackson, Sharpton, CBC, disabled groups, and even some feminist groups getting involved. Not Heaton feminists, some real liberal feminists who are buying into the abuser scenario.

I still think it was wrong, even though I understand. The Supreme Court already kicked it back to Florida so if it should have been reviewed, there would have been comment on it.

Maybe we could be the party that explains to interest groups that the constitution is more important than their agendas and if we adhere to the constitution, all their agendas will be protected in the long run anyway.

[TayTay]

7. Erred on the side of caution.

The feeding tube had been removed by the time of this vote. Sen. Levin managed to get the Rethugs to curb their bill so that it would not be precedent setting and would apply only to this case. Then the Sen. Dems and Repubs allowed it to go to a voice vote. It passed unanimously. (And Sen. Tom Harkin (D-IA) spoke in favor of it at a C-Span conference.)

I think the Dems believed that it was a no-win situation. And I also think, as Sen. LEvin's remarks on the bill on the Senate floor showed, that they believed it still was not constitutional. It was my impression (and I'm not a lawyer) that Levin felt the courts would not pick this up. So, The Dems took a pass on this fight. They have suffered no harm on this issue. (Neither have they covered themselves with glory.)

The REthugs are taking the heat on this. It is perceived as a REthug issue. They are drowning and we missed a small chance in the Senate to throw them an anvil. Sigh! In the House, Barney Frnak (D-MA) spoke eloquently in opposition to Congress getting involved in this at all. I like Barney. And I am proud of him.

[ginnyinWI]

9. it was risk vs. benefit

Better to just watch the repubs hang themselves with their own rope. They seem to be self-destructing just fine, thank-you! What a show.
Better for the Senate Dems to just watch them. Having only three senators there for that vote makes it look like such a sham. They would just love a Dem or two to lay some blame on after this is all over--always a good way to create a diversion from the truth.
Ugh, how ugly the republican party has gotten! What is it, something in the water? Trickle-down badness from the White House? I guess when a group has most of the power, they have a chance to show just how ugly they can be. I do believe that even Mr. and Mrs. Average American are able to see this for what it is.

I ran my own little survey by asking my fundamentalist repub parents in an email what they thought of the case. They said they are sick of hearing about it, and then repeated some of the misinformation out there about the case--the husband is bad and she is suffering--but generally they just want it all to go away. There were NO words of praise for either of the Bush brothers, or the repubs in Congress. They are just confused and sickened by the whole thing.
When they say things like this, I can tell that what they are hearing on conservative radio and FOX is not in line with what their gut values tell them, and so they remain confused. They want to accept it all, but can't.

[Pirate Smile]

11. If Senate Dem's called for a quorum while everyone was on vacation, then

there is no vote, no bill passed to "save Terri".

Democratic Party of death killed Terri Schiavo.

Yep, it sounds like a no win situation. I actually think they handled it about right or else we would have handed the Republicans a hammer to keep hitting us in the head with over and over again.

[TayTay]

12. I think they will now start granting interviews

on this case. They will stress respect for the family and their suffering and deep regret that Congress interfered. Then they can hit Delay and the RW media for inserting itself into a family decision. This seems like a good way to stay true to principle and to their own consciences.

[JI7]

10. the SC has ruled on this now

i'm wondering what the Republicans will do. and i mean republicans like Jeb , Chimp etc who are in power and who these people are begging to get something done.

the thing about this and difference from so many other issues that republicans exploit for their own gain is they don't really have a Democrat they can blame. such as on abortion they always blamed congress, or clinton when he was president and kerr during the campaign. but there is nobody now who is in a position of power to do something in this case who is a democrat. especially since the same court that helped bush in the bush v gore case has refused to take this case.

[ginnyinWI]

13. The story will be that they did everything that they could,

but those mean judges just wouldn't rule in their favor. They will be all for taking power away from those nasty judges now. Somebody else ALWAYS has to be to blame! You are right, they can't blame Congress now, and no Dem senators stood in their way (although they could have with just one vote, I understand). The Dem representatives made the Dem position clear enough, but they did not block anything. The only ones left to blame are the judges. Hm, it must be Clinton's fault, somehow....

The question remains: will the repub voters buy this? Or will they see the hypocrisy? This is what will be interesting to watch for. Bush and Congress's approval ratings are falling, I understand.

edit: can't spell. :eyes:

[LittleClarkie]

14. I love how these guys define "liberal" as anyone who disagrees

with them.

They have the presidency, both houses but that's not enough. They must have the judges. This despite Bush getting almost all the judges he nominated barring 10. Are they trying to tell us that those 10 judges are so pivitol the RW would then have all they need to "get to work" so to speak. Terri dies because Bush couldn't have 10 out of the hundreds he's nominated?

Hello people! Cripes! The RW base is being played like a cheap fiddle. Perpetual victims who's way of life is in jeopardy. Riiiiight.

[TayTay]

15. Yeah, but the *ies have not yet produced for this people.

And the cracks in the coalition are starting to show. The Fundies want to win a battle, no matter what it takes. They want Jebbie to go to the hospice with armed guards and take Terri Schiavo out and make sure her feeding tube gets reinserted. Needless to say, little Shrubbie Jeb can't do this.

DKos had a nice diary that talked about the Schiavo parents finally realizing that the Congress of Frist and Delay had played them for political gain. And these people (who, by all accounts, are very nice people) are angry.

It is much, much harder to make the case that federal judges are out of control when those same judges are in line with the mainstream opinion of an overwhelming majorities of the American people. Indeed, this entire sad mess may end up convincing a few Repubs in the Senate to not end the filibuster. The Rethugs have over-reached on this one. They may have appealed to the base, but ever the Repubs are have to apeal to more than a narrow base. They are self-destructing.

Coulnd't happen to a nicer bunch of self-rightoues, arrogant, merciless and bizarre bunch of folks.

[ginnyinWI]

16. So hopefully it will have this result:

The 15-20% of the people who are the religious right base will be mad at them because they can't/won't deliver the promised outlawing of abortion, the abolishment of gayness, or whatever else they had on their agendas. As long as their blame-game doesn't bail them out!

The other 80-85% of the American people will hold them in varying degrees of contempt and disgust because of their disregard for the Constitution and the rule of law. This includes everyone from the moderate repubs to us voters on the left who feel the *ies are threatening to take apart everything from our country to the United Nations.

I like it. They deserve nothing less than to be completely discredited. All we still need is a media that will no longer cover their sorry butts for them.


edit: Oh and I wonder how much "political capital" the Chimp will have left after all of this mess is paid for?? Ha.

[Pirate Smile]

17. I don't see how this could help Republicans on the Judicial

appointment issue, which I've seen some people claim is the reason they did this.

This situation has made the huge majority of Americans GLAD the Judiciary is not full of RW wackos.

It helped place a new emphasis on the importance of the separation of the Judicial branch from the Presidential and Legislative branches.

It just proves how important it is to NOT give extremists life term judgeships.

[TayTay]

18. Yes, but that's because the first round gambit lost

And it is only round one. The polls on the Senate going 'nuclear' over the filibuster rule are not good for the Rethugs. The American people do not want the Senate to cease to function over this procedural rule. The Rethugs are unethical bastards and will use anything that comes their way to make their points. The Schiavo case had a connection to judges. That this case was painful to real live human beings was of no consequence to the Rethugs. (What do they care? People in pain mean nothing to them.)

It appears that this case has blown up in their face. While it has appealed to their religious base, it has not incited anyone beyond that narrow base to push for change in judgeship or the appointment process itself. I expect that these tehically-challenged bastards will begin to quietly drop the Schindlers soon and move on to whatever phase 2 of their plan is. The goal is all that matters to these people. Actual human beings with feelings and pains all their own are simply collateral damage along the way.

BTW, the last report in the WaPo said that the Rethugs had 49 votes to blow up the Senate. This mess won't garner them anymore. And you can be sure that Frist won't go for the nuclear option until he is dead sure he has the votes to overturn the filibuster rule.

[foreverdem]

19. They are reaping what they've sewn.

The repugs were all over this tragic situation like leeches. I guess it just goes to show how deserate they are that they would use something like this to drum up support for themselves. I'm glad it blew up in their faces.

And Tom DeLay saying this woman was sent to us. What about all the other thousands of people that are taken off life support every day, that the shrub signed into law in Texas? Only Terri Schiavo's life deserves to be saved? His hypocracy is sickening! Has any of the corporate media brought this up? I can't watch news anymore, I get too angry.

[ginnyinWI]

20. Nightline

ABC's Nightline had a pretty good program on it this week. They had the guy on who was Terri Shiavo's legal proxy, who took her part in the proceedings. The whole program pointed to the way the Congress and president were out of bounds on this. I record this program every night on my DVR and check it out the next day--I'm frequently very happy with their coverage on the issues. PBS' Newshour has been pretty good, too.

[foreverdem]

21. Thanks!

Thanks, ginny. Maybe I'll try that. The mainstream is just too much for me.