The devil wore J. Crew

[whometense]

Very interesting book review on Salon today.

A new book says that sociopaths aren't just Scott Peterson and BTK. They are your neighbors, bosses -- even therapists.

I might add, they also may be your president. Read the review and tell me what you think.

Do sociopaths seek out positions with a lot of authority, so they won't be questioned?

I think there are certain professions that we understand as being humanitarian and good, and you won't be questioned as much. And there are certain professions where you can make people jump, or the way you make them feel bad about themselves is more private. Certainly psychotherapy would be one of those. On the other side, there are the power professions where the goal is to win -- politics, banking, etc. Those professions tend to be good places for sociopaths to hide and prosper, unfortunately.

Prosper because of the focus is on winning to the exclusion of other things?

Yes. It tends to excuse behavior that we might otherwise condemn. A little bit of lying might be considered clever rather than amoral. I think this particularly true in business and politics, especially in the West.

[TayTay]

1. Thanks for this!

I thought of * too! Especially his habit of giving out goofy names to people. Paul O'Neill wrote in his book last year that he thought * used the nickname thing to assert control and to let people know that he is in charge and should not be questioned.

[JI7]

2. Bush also tortured animals when he was young

i think that's an early sign .

[whometense]

3. The part about the eyes

really creeped me out. I've seen his eyes go suddenly cold and dead, and it's scary.

[whometense]

26. The nickname

thing always struck me as a form of locker-room bullying.

[karynnj]

4. Some things ring true

The fact that kids can tell is interesting. At one point when I was reading the Kerry/Edwards blog, some one pointed out that there were recent pictures of Kerry and Bush respectively with kids on the Yahoo (I think) site. Their point was that all (there were at least 20) the Bush babies and small kids were NOT happy campers, while the Kerry pictures looked like any of them could be put in his campaign literature.

Bush's tendency to lie even when there's no reason to fits. That he branded people at Yale would count. Although I may not have looked hard enough, I don't remember pictures of him and the twins when they were little -other than the photo when they were just born.

I am really leery of diagnosing politicians by what's in the press. I saw things years ago, similar lists of what a sociopath is and arguments that it fit Bill Clinton. The RW people see Bush as compassionate and moral, which would imply a conscience. Also, if the RW saw the same article, they would probably try to say Kerry fits it - and would be mystified that we see him as kind hearted, honest and caring.
****************************************************************
But if we're going to diagnose politicians, NYT has an article on Hypomania. Does this fit any politician we can think of? (Just being a devil's advocate because I don't think we really have enough info to see if anyone fits)

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/03/22/health/psychology/22hypo.html

Hypomanic? Absolutely. But Oh So Productive!

<snip>

In recent decades, scientists have found that bipolar disorder is widely variable, and that its milder forms are marked by hypomanias, currents of mental energy and concentration that are less reckless than full-blown manic frenzies, and unspoiled, in many cases, by subsequent gloom.
New research helps explain how people with manic or hypomanic tendencies navigate the small triumphs and humiliations of daily life, and provides clues to how some of them quickly shake off the emotional troughs that their ambitious natures should make inevitable.
"It kind of goes against the common assumption, but many people who are inclined to hypomanic or manic symptoms have an underlying resilience," said Dr. Kay Redfield Jamison, a professor of psychiatry at Johns Hopkins University. "They may get trashed by their peers, laid low, but they respond very strongly."
In a new book, "Exuberance," Dr. Jamison argues that flights of joyous energy similar to hypomanic states frequently accompany scientific and literary inspiration
<snip>
As one psychiatrist put it, Dr. Kessler said, "The goal in life is constant hypomania: you never sleep too much; you're on; you keep going."

[whometense]

5. I agree that it's

irresponsible to diagnose people long distance and with no expertise (i.e. Bill Frist diagnosing Terri Schiavo after having viewed a few - old - videotapes.)

But there are some things that you read that just inevitably evoke certain thoughts...

I'm glad you mentioned the part about the children. I had noticed that as well - all those pictures of small children screaming when face to face with *. All those happy babies nestled in Kerry's arms.

[whometense]

6. Illustration 1

[karynnj]

9. Poor Baby and Bush is laughing - there's not even any concern

You couldn't have found a better picture to show either the kid's rejection or Bush's lack of empathy. Would you have let your child remain in his arms even to get a photo?

Maybe the fact that Kerry actually tends to look at the baby helps! I also love the little kid pictures where Kerry is down on the floor at the kids' level, which is no easy trick when you're as tall as he is.

[whometense]

12. I agree.

I'd never allow him to touch a baby of mine. He doesn't even appear to be aware that the child is upset.

[whometense]

20. Like this one?

[whometense]

23. I love the way that little girl

is resting her head on his thigh. It's so trusting. :loveya:

Men who are good with kids - mmmmm...major turn-on (can I say that in this forum????) :loveya: :loveya:

[europegirl4jfk]

24. Kerry and kids

I really love this picture:



I guess it's one of his daughters. Do you know which one?

[whometense]

25. Yes.

It's Vanessa. A beautiful picture.

[elshiva]

61. Reminds me of...

[karynnj]

30. Such a sweet picture

I definitely agree on men who are good with kids - When my husband first met my large family, he quickly became the grown-up all three of my little nieces adopted him as their big playmate, which only made me more certain about him.

[whometense]

31. My husband too.

He's the oldest of seven kids, and is a wonderful father.

(Though I have to add that the first clue for me was the first time I was in his apartment. Once I saw his cranky, smelly, macho-pig dog who completely adored him I thought he was a definite keeper. Anyone who could feel affection for that dog, and could inspire such devotion from that dog...)

[ginnyinWI]

32. it absolutely is, whome!

here's my favorite:

<img src="" alt="Image hosted by Photobucket.com">


:loveya:

[Pirate Smile]

48. There is another one where the little girl lays her head on his back

or shoulder while he is reading but I can't find it. Grrrrr.

[Hans Delbrook]

52. I love that picture too!

It's not just the trust she shows - though that is a major part of it. It's his absolute comfort w/ children that would elicit that kind of response. That shows what bullshit is the aloof, arrogant tag. Those kind of people (and I've seen plenty of them) don't "play" well w/ children or for that matter animals.

[whometense]

18. Look at this one:

What's this baby thinking?

[Withywindle]

21. *shudder*

He doesn't even know how to hold a baby.


I'm not a mom, but those pictures give me the creeps. I wouldn't let that man touch my wallet, much less my child!

[whometense]

22. You'd never think

he's a father by looking at these pictures. Totally awkward, like he's never even held a baby before. Something not right there.

[politicasista]

27. Thanks for the pics whome!

Are there any more? They are so cute compared to Smirky's baby pics. Looks like Kerry knows the right way to interact with children. :) Too bad the media wouldn't let us see this side of him. :(

[whometense]

28. I'll look up some more.

I hoard Kerry pictures. ;-)

This one's wonderful, even though he isn't holding any kids...

[whometense]

29. This one's great, too.

[ginnyinWI]

62. I just noticed something

Not that it is important, but the photo is reversed. That arm with the watch and yellow bracelet is his left arm.

I guess I should go get some sleep instead of talking about minute details...

[karynnj]

35. That's exactly what some of the people were saying before the election

on the blog. That a good ad from one of the outside groups could be made containing no words just a series of Bush and kids, Kerry and kids pictures. They were joking - but if the analysis really was that he lost the security MOMS - who knows? Moms would definitely react.

The photo book by George Butler had lots of pictures with his own girls, which were beautiful.

[TayTay]

49. I love the face that baby is making LOL!

It looks like he is saying, "Geez Mom, this guy stinks. I think he needs to be changed." LOL!

[karynnj]

55. In the middle picture, it looks like the child punched him in the nose!

Wise child - a young Democrat in the making who may look back proudly on his interaction.

[whometense]

7. Illustration 2

[whometense]

11. Illustration 3

FINALLY!! Look at the serenity.

[whometense]

13. I love this one too.

I can't tell who's having more fun.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v732/whometense/JK_JackEdwards.bmp

[ginnyinWI]

34. I'll put it on here as a pic and add another

Aww...

<img src="" alt="Image hosted by Photobucket.com">

<img src="" alt="Image hosted by Photobucket.com">

[whometense]

43. Thanks, Ginny!!!!!

I have no idea why it was giving me so much trouble!!!

[Withywindle]

15. Veddy iiiiinteresssting...

Armchair diagnosis is so tempting. :)


I notice in both of Kerry's pictures, he seems to be tuning out the crowds and cameras and really paying attention to the baby. Bush, no, it's a photo-op and the baby's just a prop. Babies can't articulate that but they can sure as hell sense it.

[whometense]

16. Great point.

And absolutely true. Babies just have great innate bullshit detectors.

[Hans Delbrook]

53. That's it!

In all his pictures Kerry is focused on the children or the baby while shrubbie - you can just hear him thinking, "Get this over with so I can get rid of this thing."

[ginnyinWI]

33. they put their little arms around his neck

and feel secure. :)

[whometense]

14. Another one

[karynnj]

19. What a gorgeous picture

Kerry and the baby are both amused by something.

[karynnj]

17. That picture is so cute - Kerry looks so happy that the baby is

showing him the toy. The baby's hand seems seems so little next to Kerry's. He passes the baby test with flying colors!

[TayTay]

8. Hypomania, LOL!

I know who I thought of when I first read this in the Boston Globe a few weeks ago.

[karynnj]

10. Is it likely that I thought of the same person?

[ginnyinWI]

36. ok you guys--

if you meant JK, ok, but it says in the article that a hypomanic person starts a lot of projects and doesn't finish them--so it wouldn't fit him, in that respect. ;)

To me he's just a super-smart, super-active and super-confident personality. :)

[karynnj]

39. I hesitated posting it - because it could be misinterpreted

I agree with you, I would guess that he would have been one of the kids considered exuberant because the adjetive was used about him, but he sure seems to finish things - even when everybody's trying to stop him. I definitely didn't intent to imply any of the negative things - just thought it was funny that I had just read it when I saw this other (very negative) sociopath article that sounded like Bush. The hypomanic article in some ways seemed as close to Kerry as sociopath to Bush. (Also, if he's hypomanic, he's a hypomanic well loved by babies which is way better than the "diagnois" for Bush.)

[ginnyinWI]

42. yeah I know

I was posting understanding that. We're all just having a bit of fun. (by the way is Spring ever gonna get here???? Cabin fever :).)

[whometense]

45. I hear you.

It's been warm (40ish) here this week. I just got back from a walk - WEARING A SWEATER BUT NO JACKET!!!!

Of course, it's supposed to snow again Thursday...

[ginnyinWI]

37. more evidence...

caption: From the baby-- "try to kiss me and you're history!"

[whometense]

46. Hahahaha

That baby means business.

The first one looks the way I'd feel in that position. Somebody rescue me!!!

[ginnyinWI]

38. adorable

Haha--looks like I was overdue for a picture thread! LOL. Here's more:

[politicasista]

40. Is he shielding the little girl's head or touching it?

Thanks for the pics Ginny. They are so cute.

[karynnj]

41. From the shadow of his hand and the way he's twisting it

it looks like he's shielding her head or possibly her eyes from the sun. Very protective.

[JI7]

50. yes, it's one of my favorite pics and i remember when it happened

the sun kept getting in her eyes and she would keep moving and covering her eyes or trying to bury her head on him. so he uses his hand to block the sun from her eyes so she could see.

[ginnyinWI]

44. looks to me like

he's shielding his eyes so that he can see the baby.

[whometense]

47. Adorable just about sums it up.

Looks like he actually believes that children are people.

[ginnyinWI]

51. yep he does--

back to your original comment about men who are good with kids being attractive: one of my favorite moments was seeing him on cspan talking to a baby at a front porch rally--really treating the baby as a person with a mind and feelings, talking to him and understanding what the baby was interested in at that moment. The baby tried to grab his microphone and he talked to him about that. So gentle and understanding. I know politicians like to "kiss babies" and stuff to show they are good guys, but this was different. It was a real window into who this guy John Kerry was.
I know he was probably looking for ways to seem more real to people, and that's why he asked if he could hold the baby, but that is beside the point. What mattered was that he did show a genuine side of himself--and he showed us his heart. You just can't fake stuff like that. Sigh--makes me want to just cry all over again. :cry:

[Hans Delbrook]

54. I remember that one!

The baby's name was - Jamal - I think? And his father was talking about how his son was a Muslim and he was worried about him growing up in America (or what the rethugs are turning America into). Kerry, extemporaneously, started talking about hate - how no one hates anyone unless they've been taught to. It was a great moment. And yes, thinking of it I could cry too.
:hug: :cry:

[whometense]

56. I remember that too.

Kerry was so gentle with the child.

Sigh. He's such a grownup. A mensch. And grownups (and definitely mensches) are endangered species in Washington these days.

[elshiva]

57. Don't you love it when the baby kisses the politician?

[Hans Delbrook]

66. I looked into his face at the rally I was at

There was such wisdom etched there. And thoughtfulness - in the sense of deep thought. He would have made me so proud as our president...

[Firespirit]

58. He really connects with people.

It crosses all sorts of boundaries that some might think would be insurmountable (like connecting with a baby who had never seen him before), but he does have this talent. During the campaign, I read lots of stories about people who had met him at rallies and other events, and they were all very positive anecdotes. He's a "people person" precisely because it's innate, not forced, and whatever may have been his initial motivation for getting photographed with people, it always ends up being a "real" event.

I'd be willing to say that it's because he's not obsessed with himself (unlike somebody else whose photos are in this thread), but exactly the opposite. He's interested in people.

[politicasista]

59. It was always tiring to hear my peeps say that Kerry didn't connect.....

with them on a personal level in a way that Clinton did (Sorry to keep bringing him up). Then when we would be interviewed, we would believe the Rover talking points like "Kerry was dry, dull, stiff, and so on." As well as the whining about how "he didn't have a clear agenda for Black America." Sometimes I feel like I am all alone on this issue. :nopity:

[elshiva]

60. I never got the dry boring bit either!

Nor did I get some of "Can we trust Kerry on gay issues?" letters in the Washington Blade. Hello! The guy gets a hundred percent HRC rating, votes against FMA, and is pro-civil union. I have no pity...

[ginnyinWI]

63. another way to say it is

that Kerry didn't pander to minority groups. But he understands their issues. Instead, he talked about jobs, education, healthcare, poverty, and other issues that Americans of all colors and creeds care about. And that's the way it should be, in my opinion. We are all Americans and are stronger when we are united together. Do you think that's true? I mean, I'm not a minority (except for being female), and I don't know for sure, but I can imagine that a politician who singles out a group and panders to it would not come across as very sincere. He went around the country and listened to all types of people very sincerely. But he kept being himself, and didn't try to be somebody else.

[politicasista]

64. Being himself is a good thing

I know I have babbled on about this but I just wanted to scream everytime I read articles like that from my peeps during the campaign. So many (yes, Tavis Smiley including,) wondered if Kerry had been elected, would he appoint minorities to the top cabinet positions (i.e. SOS, NSA, AG) just like * did with Colin, Condi, and Gonzales or minorites to the Supreme Court and wondered if he had any minorities on his Senate staff. I am proud to say to you guys that I just shut up and voted for Kerry, which is what all of us should have done. (no ABB) :)


P.S. Thanks guys for your understanding on this issue.

[foreverdem]

65. He most certainly did not

You are absolutely correct - he did not pander to any groups, corporations or special interests. John Kerry is not and never has been for sale. He talked about the problems of all of us, jobs, education, healthcare, help for small business owners without catering to any one group. And he did have a plan for national security, and IMHO, we would be a hell of a lot safer with him in the WH instead of the shrub.

With the babies, he's so natural, so paternal and caring. You cannot fake that, if you are not comfortable with them, your body language will give you away in a second. Look at the shrub.