Newt Gingritch's failure - botched joke

[Mass]

If I had forgotten why I dislike Kornacki so much (not that I need to remember, his undying love for Scott Brown is enough for me), here is another column that reminds me that he is just a pompous idiot.

http://www.salon.com/news/politics/war_room/2011/05/18/gingrich_republicans_message

For the past decade, much of the press and political commentariat -- present company very much included -- bought into and advanced a notion that, it has become clear these past few days, was probably never true: That Newt Gingrich, after flaming out as House Speaker and leaving Congress in 1998, had somehow managed to reinvent himself as a freshly relevant Republican leader for the 21st century.

The reality of the last ten years or so, it now seems, goes more like this. After emerging from a brief post-Speakership exile (with a new, much younger wife by his side), Gingrich was welcomed back to the political world and afforded a prominent place in it ... by news and talk-show hosts and producers, political journalists, and other media figures who understood that the former Speaker's title, broad name recognition, polarizing personality, and tendency to alternate between wild bombast and surprising reasonableness were good for business. But actual Republican Party leaders? They tolerated his lingering presence because he generally toed the party line and seemed far more interested in making money than in running for office again or seeking any kind of official role in GOP politics; how much harm could he really do? But that didn't mean they were happy he was "back" -- or wanted him anywhere near, say, a presidential race.

...


In this sense, the GOP's hostile and aggressive response to his Medicare comments can be likened to Democrats' reaction to John Kerry's "botched joke" about Iraq in the days before the 2006 midterms. Was the Kerry controversy mainly manufactured? Sure. But Democrats were in no mood to rush to his defense. For one thing, the midterms were days away and they didn't want to make the story any bigger. But there was something more: Kerry was making it clear that he wanted to run for president again in 2008 -- an idea that most Democratic leaders hated. They wanted him gone from the national stage, and now they had an opening to deliver that message. Kerry, by most accounts, was humbled by the lack of public support his party gave him, and soon decided not to run again. Problem solved.

If anything, Republicans are even more eager to be rid of Newt now. It remains to be seen if, like John Kerry five years ago, he'll get the message.

I would not disagree that the Democrats were not supportive of a Kerry run in 2007, but there are quite a few assertion here that do not float:

1/ Kerry is still very much on the national and international scene.
2/ The botched joke was a fabrication by the right on something that Kerry clearly did not intend to say. Gingrich, in a moment of candidness, admitted the Ryan plan was wrong. It was certainly not a popular message in the party, but it is what he intended to say when he said it.

[YvonneCa]

1. To assertion #1 about JK still being...

...very much on the national and international scene:

He outsmarted them (the party folks that wanted him out). All one has to do is watch his involvement in the issues of the day...his ideas are PARAMOUNT. It's wonderful to behold. ;)


BTW, Mass...very OT...I just had a BC diagnosis, too. I am doing well...and I hope the same for you. :grouphug:

[TayTay]

3. Mass and Yvonne

All the love and support in the world to you both on the BC diagnosis.

If there is anything I can do, don't hesitate to let me know

[YvonneCa]

5. Thank you. I am feeling very...

...lucky, as mine was caught early by mammography...a lesson I will pass on to my daughters and granddaughters. I really appreciate your words, TayTay.

[Mass]

4. Big Hugs too.

My sister finished her treatment a few weeks ago. She got through chemotherapy without trouble and then through radiotherapy.

I have an appointment next week for a checkup, but I have had appointments every month or two for the last year and all was fine. My husband was a great support. I hope you have somebody with you for support too.:grouphug:

[YvonneCa]

6. Thank you. I am glad to year that you...

...and your sister are doing well. I am at the beginning of this...lumpectomy last week...and am learning a LOT. I had NO IDEA how complicated the decisions are.

I am feeling very lucky that this was caught early, and am 'singing the praises' of regular mammograms. :) I do have great support from my family...even my ex-husband showed up. :7

This group is pretty wonderful, too. :grouphug:

[karynnj]

13. Best wishes for both you and Mass

[YvonneCa]

16. Thanks, karynnj. n/t

[Inuca]

22. Another big double-hug to both of you

I was scarce lately and did not see this until today. I knew about Mass but not about you Yvonne. And on a more selfish note, I should get of my you know what and go have that VERY, VERY delayed mammogram.

[YvonneCa]

24. Thanks for the hug, Inuca. My...

...diagnosis is new. And it's amazing ...like in many situations...one gains a new appreciation for those involved, like Mass. I had no idea how much there was to learn or how many decisions there were to make. I do now. :)

One, EASY decision is to do mammograms religiously...and, i would say, do DIGITAL mammograms. In my case, and many others, they show things not visible in traditional film mammogramms. That is how mine was caught early. It's scary...but less so if caught early. So...Inunca...get off your... :7 :hug:

Thanks again for the big double-hug. Hugs back! :grouphug:

[ProSense]

29. Hi Yvonne

I had no idea. Regular mammograms really need to be stressed. Early detection in any health-related issue is important.

I'll keep you in my prayers.

:hug:

[YvonneCa]

34. Thank you, Prosense. I am quite...

...lucky that the new digital technology picked mine up. I am 'singing the praises' of mammography these days! :7 I really appreciate your words, the prayers and the hug.

[politicasista]

33. Another hug and best wishes to you

:grouphug:

[YvonneCa]

35. Thanks, policiasista. All the hugs are...

...just what I needed. :) Hugs back. :grouphug:

[politicasista]

36. Back to you

:grouphug: :)

[ProSense]

28. Wow

Best wishes to you and your sister. It's good that you have a such support.

:hug:

[politicasista]

32. ...

Haven't been on good terms with everyone here of late, but best wishes to you and your sister also. :grouphug:

[ObamaKerryDem]

7. Exactly! JK inadvertantly missed a WORD. Newt, on the other hand..

..is lucky if people think he missed an entire concept; more like a Freudian slip..

BIG difference.

BTW, didn't JK debate Newt a few years back? Man oh man I would've loved to have seen that! Anyone happen to have video? Safe to say JK crushed him? :D lol

But I am very sorry to hear of your diagnosis, YvonneCA and Mass! :( Sending my best wishes your way to a full and speedy recovery! :hug:

[YvonneCa]

9. Thanks for the...

...hug. As you probably know, most of us here are fighters:mad: ...we hang in there and never give up. I am SURE we will all be fine. :)

As to that debate with Newt...

I watched it. I think C-Span probably has it somewhere...I'll look and post it here if I find it. :hi:

[ObamaKerryDem]

19. You are so welcome! Pulling for you..

..And hey you also have the lovely and strong THK to look to for inspiration on this as well. :) Glad you caught it early! That seems to be key..

Please keep us updated on your progress! :grouphug:

[YvonneCa]

21. You are right about THK and the inspiration...

...of so many women who have gone before. I went back and watched her speech from Spring, 2010 where she talked about her BC journey. Her advice to be positive and assertive with our choices is very inspirational. We always hear that we women need to make ourselves more of a priority in our own lives, but we often don't do that until something (like BC for example) makes us. Most of us don't even put ourselves on our own (priority) list...everyone and everything else comes first.

Thank you for the hugs and positive words...they mean a lot to me. I WILL let you all know how things are going. :grouphug:

[beachmom]

12. I saw it, and Newt probably hopes it could be erased.

He's on record saying global climate change is a major challenge and problem. Kerry didn't crush him -- it's more that it wasn't much of a debate. Newt's difference with JK was mainly what to do about it, not whether it existed. That basically means to the GOP base Newt is a socialist Communist or something.

[karynnj]

14. They debated climate change - here is the CSPAN link

http://cspan.org/Events/Sen-Kerry-D-MA-and-Newt-Gingrich-Debate-Global-Climate-Change/7227/

Well worth watching.

Gingrich came into the debate and immediately trying to grab the center by changing his somewhat denier position to that of a believer, but one wanting to use voluntary controls, Kerry still completely owned the debate.

[ObamaKerryDem]

20. Thank you so much!!

Can't wait to watch it! Might need some :popcorn: hehe :D

[beachmom]

10. Yvonne -- just wanted to send good thoughts your way.

Glad to hear it was caught early.

[YvonneCa]

17. Thank you so much. Good thoughts...

...work wonders. :) I am glad it was caught early, too...DIGITAL mammogram, showed more detail than the older technology. I'm feeling pretty grateful these days. :hi:

[wisteria]

26. I wish you both all the best, I will be praying for you both. n/t

[YvonneCa]

41. I just saw this, wisteria. Thank you...

...so much. :hi:

[karynnj]

2. Your summary is perfect

There actually was a very good response by Kerry and even some unlikely Democrats, including Carville, defended him. In addition, there are few Democrats with Kerry's military credentials - most importantly all he worked for in the Senate to help him.

I do think the pain of the attack might have brought back the pain of all the 2004 attacks - on him AND his crew.

I do think that Kerry did react to the lack of support - once Madame HRC jumped in saying it was "inappropriate" validating that he actually attacked the troops. (Something that STILL affects my view of HRC) He easily, with vet support, have handled the substance with an ad much like the one he used in MA for his Senate campaign. But, I remember the nauseating wave of attacks = and I am not connected to Kerry. I can't imagine how Teresa and his girls felt. In an interview after he decided not to run, Alex mentioned how hard that year was for the family with the death of her mother.

From all outside indications pre-joke, it looked like Kerry was more likely to run than not. However, he was not the favorite - the media had pushed Hillary since the 1990s. I suspect that her nastiness (and Bill's known nastiness) may have played a factor in his not wanting the Democratic nomination to turn into a nasty mess - maybe letting McCain win. I suspect the only way to beat the party machine was to come in under the radar - as he did in 2004 and Obama did in 2008.

Kerry's problem was skipping one two letter word in a joke written for him - Gingrich actually told an unpleasant truth that he is now retreating from.

[ObamaKerryDem]

8. My thoughts EXACTLY!

:thumbsup: :)

But oh man, that was the year their (Alex and Vanessa's) mom died, wasn't it? Damn. :( What utter nonsense, faux outrage, that caused probably so much extra stress, hurt and aggrivation in addition to what the family was already going through..and not even all that long after one of the dirtiest smear campaigns in history (the Swiftboat lies). That must've been so hard for them too. It boils MY blood to this day to hear those smears or remember them, so I can only imagine how it felt for his daughters..or his wife or the men who actually served with him on that boat and knew those were lies.

It really shows JK's true dedication that he would want to continue to serve after all of that, when he just as easily could've gone back to a pretty comfortable, relaxing private life. I admire him so much for pressing forward and doing so, so brilliantly, in spite of all that, on top of everything else. :)

I would like to see Newt or the likes of him withstand even half of what JK has had to...he can't even last through a Meet the Press interview, apparently. ha. :D

[Inuca]

23. Can't forgive mamdame for that either

Petty maybe, but for me it was one of these relatively "small" things that tell volumes about human quality. Call it class if you wish (in a very general and non-elitist sense of the word), or lack thereof, as the case may be.

[karynnj]

27. The reaason I absolutley can't forgive her

is that every Democrat owes John Kerry in terms of respect for veterans. I know that I personally never "separated the warrior from the war" or really respected the genuine and real sacrifice they made. I was a college student in the 60s and I think this was the norm - and most of the guys I knew who went to college avoided the war, legally, one way or another. But, my town was middle class and lower middle class and about half of us went to college. So, there were guys I knew who went - though I didn't know them well as they were not taking college prep courses.

The fact that ALL Democrats, now echo Kerry's sincere comments to the troops in fitting circumstances, was not really always the case. It is true that ANY President, politician etc on the obvious holidays made fitting comments - and whenever soldiers were in action, there were comments, but there was something very different - as there was in watching the video of Kerry with the soldiers in Afghanistan from this week. It is not just that he served - so did others, but there seems a stronger empathy and understanding and a somber realization of the sacrifice in their lives, that I really don't see with others.

In addition, I remember 1992 and how much Clinton was hit with the draft questions and how he was lucky the media essentially cast them as ancient history. I did not hear Kerry's eloquent words in the Senate begging the Democrats, including his friend, Kerrey, not to tear the country apart again over Vietnam, but they were heard by Democrats of that time - and likely should have been a comfort for Clinton - especially if he felt any shame in his many lies in 1992 - that the truth itself was ok.

Now, it was completely fair game for her to use the gaffe to say that Kerry always sticks his food in his mouth at critical times - even though it was the only faux pas in the 2 year post election period when he was constantly on camera. (In all of 2004, there was only one gaffe - the unfortunate shorthand on the two votes - I once said there were 2, but the Grand Canyon, was really a media hit that was used more seriously against him after he lost than before - it is completely clear from the timeline of the story propagation that the delightful Candy Crowley was the one who made the response the response to the "If you Knew" question - for which it logically made no sense.) Nothing like the gaffe of saying as First Lady you faced sniper fire - and the world press never knew.

There is NO candidate too pure to use an unfortunate statement by an opponent - after all Kerry took Dean apart for his answer that we were not safer after the capture of Saddam - though it was a rather unthought out comment.

The problem was that HRC did not LIMIT her attack on Kerry to gaffes, but allowed the implication that he would in any way - even in joke - denigrate the quality of the troops. That really goes to the core of who he is - and she knew that. My thought at the time was that it made clear that she was willing to destroy him if he stayed in her way. Obama was lucky that he blindsided her - I suspect that for the first year of debates, she was seeing a Clinton/Obama ticket.

[beachmom]

11. Actually, in CERTAIN respects it reminded me of the botched joke situation.

Mainly, that basically the entire GOP turned on Newt in the way the Dems did on Kerry, so that gave the media the green light to pile on. But the difference is vast: the Kerry botched joke situation was not substantive. Meaning, it was just this silly thing that happened that got blown all out of proportion. It had no lasting effect in the end, because it wasn't about a policy where the party was divided. Kerry may have been more out ahead in terms of wanting a deadline set for troops out of Iraq, but the party wasn't far behind him. Once the Iraq Study Group came out in Dec. '06 favoring that deadline, Obama jumped and then later on Hillary being basically for the same thing. That chasm was closed.

But the Newt medicare gaffe? It EXPLODES the division within the GOP. The GOP's base is basically the senior citizen set, and although they exempt the current generation, they have proposed the phasing out of Medicare as we know it for future generations, and apart from the die hards, a lot of folks are very uncomfortable with this including many Republicans. So Newt let slip out what a lot of them were thinking. More importantly, a lot of House Republicans voted for that phase out, and now Newt has given the Democrats a major opening to really bang them on the head with that vote. So the GOP is stuck with the Ryan plan -- they can't go back on it. So I don't see where the chasm can be closed -- it's only going to widen regardless of whether Newt pretends he didn't say what he said.

There is one other difference between Newt and the botched joke. Anyone recall David Wade putting out a statement like this?

The literati sent out their minions to do their bidding. Washington cannot tolerate threats from outsiders who might disrupt their comfortable world. The firefight started when the cowardly sensed weakness. They fired timidly at first, then the sheep not wanting to be dropped from the establishment's cocktail party invite list unloaded their entire clip, firing without taking aim their distortions and falsehoods. Now they are left exposed by their bylines and handles. But surely they had killed him off. This is the way it always worked. A lesser person could not have survived the first few minutes of the onslaught. But out of the billowing smoke and dust of tweets and trivia emerged Gingrich, once again ready to lead those who won't be intimidated by the political elite and are ready to take on the challenges America faces.

Edit: when I think more on it, Kerry messed up a joke, and it gave an opportunity for the Democratic power elite to express their extreme dissatisfaction of him running for POTUS again. Basically, it was personal. In the Newt case, the personal was involved, but it was more that they felt he had betrayed them. It was much more political.

[YvonneCa]

18. And JK acted with integrity...

...as he always does...whereas Newt's behavior is the exact opposite of integrity (a word he could never define, even if he tried).

[beachmom]

15. So ... it would be exactly the same if John Kerry kept repeating the joke over & over again:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/plum-line/post/the-morning-plum/2011/03/03/AFps576G_blog.html

Newt Gingrich’s epic implosion continues apace: I’m not sure why more people aren’t picking up on this, but as Glenn Kessler’s dissection of Newt’s backtracking on criticism of Paul Ryan’s Medicare proposal clearly demonstrates, Gingrich is still calling Ryan’s plan “radical.”

It continues to astound that Gingrich — who has been on the national scene since the mid-1990s — entered the presidential race without a coherent, thought-through position on one of the central political and policy questions of the moment, one of immense significance to the conservatives who decide GOP primaries. Even more astounding is the ferocity of the backlash, which underscores how heavily invested conservatives are in the Ryan agenda, despite the warning from some GOP strategists that pursuing it could be politically catastrophic.

[MBS]

25. John Lithgow gives dramatic reading of Newt press release

John Lithgow performs on Colbert. This is a thing of beauty:
http://tpmlivewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/05/john-lithgow-performs-dramatic-reading-of-gingrichs-spokesmans-epic-poem.php?ref=fpblg

[ProSense]

30. I was

staying out of this thread because sometimes seeing the words "botched joke" makes me cringe.

Thanks for the link, I'll have to check it out. Don't know if it's funny, but something about "John Lithgow gives dramatic reading of Newt press release" already has me cracking up.

:rofl:

[Mass]

39. It makes me cringe too, but from Kornaki, I expect anything.

On a totally unrelated topic, John Stewart makes me cringe as well, each time he makes fun on Kerry for being boring (see Thursday night talking about Kerry's visit to Pakistan). It has become so predictable that it is no more funny.

[ProSense]

31. .

:rofl:

[TayTay]

37. Brilliant!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy:

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Thanks for the link

[Mass]

38. It was great....Thanks for posting the link.

[YvonneCa]

40. WOW! That was perfect. Thank you for posting...

...it here. :hi: