Sunday is really a silly day at DU.

[Mass]

Seems some people need to get a life.

Not expanding. I just need a break from stupidity.

[beachmom]

1. I'll tell you what is getting to me:

Lefties who are shooting down the Obama Administration because they are not doing exactly what they want them to do. I looked at TPM today and sighed. And then the Right is completely mad, and it is so, so, so ugly in my state.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5g-uLlNVaHt8K1cRNofl1Jlsxxd8gD971UPI81

Resolution on Obama leads to uproar in Ga. House

By GREG BLUESTEIN – 2 days ago

ATLANTA (AP) — Two dozen black lawmakers angrily stalked out of the Georgia House on Friday amid claims a decision by white Republican leaders to delay passage of a resolution honoring President Barack Obama had racist overtones.

House Speaker Glenn Richardson said the proposal to make Obama an honorary member of the Georgia Legislative Black Caucus required some changes to its language and sent it to a committee. Supporters, including black lawmakers, claimed the move was a snub to the nation's first black president.

"It drips with racism," said state Rep. Al Williams, a Democrat. "I call it just like it is."

...

Black lawmakers pointed out that they've gone along in the past with other largely symbolic resolutions out of respect for their colleagues, including a 2005 measure commending then-President George W. Bush's much-criticized response to Hurricane Katrina.

There is deep, deep hatred of Obama among folks on the Right. And the Left is pounding him every day for not implementing THEIR economic ideas.

Sigh, sigh, sigh.

[wisteria]

2. I am hoping it is not as bad as it seems in some limited areas. It is so important for our

country that President Obama maintain the confidence of the American people.
As for the Republicans, I am throughly disgusted with them. They have decided to behave like Limbaugh and they seem to be doing all they can in hopes that he fails. The new "NO" strategy of the Republicans along with their doom and gloom attitude is nothing more than a political strategy at the expense of the American people. Our country is in dire straights and now is not the time to play politics.

[beachmom]

3. Call me crazy, but I am still confident in the President and ...

his Treasury Secretary. For me, it's all about substance, not optics. And it is too early to make judgments on the overall big strategy. Now maybe it won't work out, and they'll have to switch to Plan B. But I am really taken aback by folks who will read an article by an economist and convert that into how Obama is making huge mistakes. I am more in the wait and see camp.

As to the Republicans, they have gone mad. They are not even in the conversation anymore. It is very strange. If the Democrats disappoint people, I do not see the Republicans as a viable alternative. Unless a savvy moderate came along; but with the base the way it is, I doubt that person could survive in the GOP.

[ladym55]

4. I agree

It's way too early to jump all over Obama. We are facing a huge mess on so many levels, a mess that took DECADES to develop and was exacerbated with 8 years of frenzied, unprincipled ideology at the helm of the country.

I've noticed that Dems tend to demand perfection and demand it immediately ... the Republicans, on the other hand, take their marching orders from right-wing radio. They don't think for themselves and spout angry and hate-filled talking points that often have no basis in fact. Their angry letters fill our newspaper every day.

And the media feeds the frenzy because it brings them ratings. And controversy is easy ... doesn't really take a lot of effort to cover it.

I do get frustrated with Dems who buy into the media-induced frenzy and feed on it.

I think we all need to realize that we won't agree with Obama every second of every day ... and not all political columnists are perfect. We all need to be patient.

[wisteria]

5. LOL, you are not crazy, I am confident that President Obama will find a way to lead us out of this

mess-one way or another. I think the American public knows who got us into this nightmare. And,the Republicans are again exhibiting the same type of group mentality and group think that lead them down the same wrong path as Bush. I really think they can not function independently.

[JI7]

6. nice to see you here again

[wisteria]

11. I appreciate your comment. n/t

[karynnj]

8. Hi wisteria!

:hi:

I wonder if some of the anger is because all of DU's prior history was during Bush's administration. Most people's energies were spent attacking Bush, advocating for one Democrat over the others or working to elect Democrats. Obama's election caused a sea change.

Some were almost startled to find that achieving the goal we had - electing a Democratic President didn't immediately fix all the problems. Some of the attacks seem to stem from disappointments in finding that Obama will not do everything they assumed (often in contradiction to what Obama said) he would do. This in a vague way is like most of the 2005 attacks on Kerry - although in Kerry's case what he failed to do was to win. On DU, there are some people stuck at this level - and like the people who attacked Kerry - most were people who supported others in the primaries who impatiently feel had their person become President everything would be better.

But, many of the people who dealt with the normal returning to real life after the incredible highs of election night and the inauguration are trying to figure out what advocates do when their party is in power. To some very real extent, it is easier to have people engaged in opposition rather than support - you don't have to agree on what the policy should be or even why something is wrong and the goal is to elect Democrats. Electing Democrats is something where you can see - first by polls then by votes - that you are winning. There is also a fixed time frame. The goals are easily defined and - in themselves, created some unity once the primary was over.

Now, on the Presidential level, it is too early to be working to Obama's re-election and hopefully he will do well enough that there will be no real primary fight. So, instead of looking over all the interesting possibilities and having all the excitement of that choice and seeing a movement built - the interests of the Democratic party is focused on governing and getting an agenda passed. This is after all why we wanted Democrats in power.

Some on DU primarily support a person, Obama, or a party and others are advocates on various issues. Fortunately, many support all three - and are willing to accept that Obama and the Democratic party may not be where they want them on every issue, but overall they are worth supporting. But, on every thread, there are strictly people/party supporters who take any disagreement as disloyalty. There are also strick issue advocates who are pushing for positions that Obama never was for (like single payer health care)who are unwilling to accept major improvements in programs if they aren't exactly what they want. Where it gets frustrating to me is when the people/party supporters try to stop serious discussions on issues or where the issue people start speaking of "spine" and "caving" especially when what passed was really an accomplishment.

[wisteria]

12. Hello to you also. There is a lot of truth in what you write.

Getting Democrats to all agree on things is like trying to herd cats- as someone else once said. And then, there are those Democrats that don't believe in compromising on anything. It appears to me that Democrats are a bunch of free thinking, ofttimes stubborn, passionate group of people.

[Mass]

7. We have to disagree on that. There is nothing wrong with arguing about ideas.

In fact, a democracy stops when voices are suppressed. A president is not a rock star. He is a man that is supposed to help lead the country in the right direction. How can he do that if there is no debate about what the right direction is, or if a voice in this debate is suppressed because the Democrats have to speak in one unified voice? It killed the Republican Party and will kill the Democratic Party if it happens.

In addition, some people have reached some level of ridicule on GDP (which is what I was talking about) on both sides of the issue. For some, Obama will never do something right (and some of these people are not lefties, far from it, even if lefties are the big bad wolf that the Democratic Party loves to attack. Would we not be better off if some of the most recently elected people were more left wing than to join Bayh in his effort to block Obama's budget?), and for some, Obama will never be wrong and they will find all sorts of rational to justify that.

Not saying I am surprised. Just amazed that, on a democratic website, some people should not care about issues at all.

[beachmom]

9. Well, dissent is fine, except when one goes to a Democratic site

and finds ONLY vitriolic dissent. The thing is that the decision has been made on the banking issue. People can say "I disagree" but when they make comparisons of Obama to Bush, I just think they have gone too far (we almost need a new Godwin's Law -- that when you compare Obama to Bush you are not really making an argument anymore, just attacking for attack's sake, and that goes for a certain NYT writer not named Krugman). Since I assume some of this is about Paul Krugman, you know sometimes I agree with him, and sometimes I don't. I didn't realize he had morphed into "God" (same with that Matt Taibi RS writer who everyone has now started to worship).

I think Obama should be criticized, and there should be a healthy debate. What I saw yesterday was not healthy. People were calling for class warfare and revolution. Count me out on that. Although .... interestingly, I equally deplore the mealy mouthed "Moderate Democrats" Bayh formed in the Senate. They are not really for anything either; they're just trying to throw spitballs at the President for pure political gain.

[Mass]

10. Not sure what site you are going to. Sorry, some lefties sites are sites for idiots who cannot think

just as some Obama supporters sites are sites for idiots who cannot think.

It has nothing to do with ideology and all to do with how people unable to argue without using hyperboles and ad hominem.

There are people like that everywhere. No need to condemn people ideas because you do not like the way they argue. Those are two very different issues.

Concerning Krugman, I am no fan of his writing skills, but calling him a freeper because he happens to disagree with Obama on these issues without even refuting one of his ideas is just wrong. When I was talking about DU being crazy, I was indeed referring to Krugman, but I see both sides as just as guilty. I had not read his post yesterday, so I could not weight in the discussion, but what I saw is people insulting each other because they thought they had to choose one side or the other. This was plainly ridiculous, but I do not think one side or the other is exempt of blame. Both sides are considering their hero as a rock star rather than dealing with real issues (I had no clue what the post was about until this morning where I read it. All I saw was people insulting each other). Matt Taibi is not one of my hero at all., no thanks, but once again, I do not like hero. I think it is a fundamentally wrong concept, but there is not one side that is dirty and one side that is clean here. Both sides are equally guilty.

[wisteria]

13. Krugman is a very smart man and he has been "right on the money" on

many economic issues- the housing bubble for one. But recently, I have to wonder if he may still be a bit high from his prize.

[beachmom]

14. The thing is, he may be right -- the Banking plan may not work.

But it was the emotion of "We're all doomed" in his op-ed that got people really worked up. Frankly, the "Left" (for lack of a better word) is depressing me. The GOP was always too optimistic and utopian about The Free Market and Tax Cuts. But I am finding our side too pessimistic, except when they talk about having the government take over this, that or the other thing, normally politically unfeasible things. I swear I may have to filter their crap out for a while -- this is about my own psychological well being. When I read Krugman, et al, I feel afraid of the future. When I see Obama on TV, I feel better. Now this does not mean I want to be an ostrich with my head in the sand, but I just think there is only so much people can take before we turn away from those Debbie Downer pundits. It is one thing to describe conditions in the country, and the true suffering, but quite another to declare a plan a failure before it has been implemented.

To end, I highly recommend this diary, who I think represents a lot of the 60 plus percent of the American people who still approve of Pres. Obama:

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2009/3/23/711892/-Just-a-story-from-an-average-person.-Updated.

[wisteria]

15. Hey, being an ostrich once in a while helps and as for Krugman,

well in fact, he never writes about good news. If I recall correctly, he always criticized Kerry's and Bush's economic plans also. Maybe Obama needs to extend an offer of a consultation. As for the Democratic downers, it may be that after eight years of Bush they have forgotten to seek out the good and only look for and brace for the bad.
Thanks for the link.

[beachmom]

17. Without any specific details, one of the doom and gloomers revealed his agenda:

"I may sound callous but a quick recovery means no reform."

Wow, not so far from Rush Limbaugh's position.

[TayTay]

16. So, again, what do you believe?

We won. We beat back 8 years of Republican lies and distortions and apathy and ignorance. We won! We celebrated this crushing victory that literally went from coast to coast and north to south. We won! Great. Now what?

What do you believe in? Why are you here? The single thing that politics does on a day-to-day basis is move issues forward. They may get moved a tenth of an inch or yards at a time, but the purpose of politics and diplomacy is to be in motion. We are now in motion on a range of issues.

That post on DKos shows why someone is there. That woman had a horrific event occur that caused cataclysmic damage to her life and the life of her mother and son. The health care system nearly destroyed her, both in body and in spirit. Yet she survived. She survived in spirit and found hope, as she attests in her diary, in Sen. Obama's campaign and his vow to work for people like her:

Senator Obama brought me to my feet- reminded me that I had a voice, that I mattered, that I counted.. that I could hope and beyond hope I could act. I'd already been doing it by fighting back for my health- but here was this person asking me to fight for others, something I'd been too busy and too self-involved to do since I was in my 20's. And then, you see I needed to find out if I could talk to people, because of the brain damage I had become very self-aware and afraid to speak much. So I knocked on doors- had many slammed in my face.. because this is a very red town, lol.

But I acted and I felt some power seep back into my self, into my life.

This woman knows why she is there. She understands how hard this fight is because she has lived it. She knows what she believes in and it warms her through the tough fights. She has found her voice and intends to raise it. She will not be silent.

That is a wondrous thing and is the single greatest thing about America. (We have a remarkable and resilient people who do not suffer the death of hope. We rebound, regroup and go on.) She has not lost hope.

The road gets pretty dark and confusing sometimes. There are legitimate reasons to have policy differences with people. (I have them all the time.) Don't confuse a policy difference with a loss of hope. We fought for the right to our voices, our opinions and our challenges as much as we fought for anything else in the last election. (Didn't someone I know give some speech a while back on the value and pure patriotism of dissent. I seem to remember that one.)

Why are you here? When the going gets heavy and the sh*t starts to fly, what keeps your feet on the path? No one can answer that but you. That woman in that diary knows her answer. I know why I continue to do what I do. Why do you? What makes it all worthwhile?

[beachmom]

18. There but for fortune go you or I

Actually, that lady speaks for me. What happened to her could happen to any of us. That is why her story resonates.

I am just going to say it, as I am knowledgeable about this: I wish America was more like Germany. Sort of an odd thing to say, but their economy is tanking horribly, they will probably go down 7% this year. But you know what? My in laws will be JUST FINE. Because they take care of their people there -- they have universal health care, good unemployment benefits, and so on. The people there are less materialistic, yet that helps them when bad times inevitably come -- they rent more than own, and don't live beyond their means. They have less stuff and smaller places. They'll come out of this okay. America? Well, people's lives get destroyed every year, just because they got sick. Oh, and in Germany they are not given "Credit Cards" the way we are. Meaning, you have to pay it all off in full every month. People will sometimes be given a line of credit from their bank account which behaves like a credit card, but psychologically, seeing your balance go negative makes you want to pay it down quickly.

Republicans use Europeans as an argument AGAINST Democratic policies. Why is that effective?

Anyway, that is why I am here. Well, first against Bush policies like pre-emptive wars and torture. But now that we get health care reform which I think has a good chance of happening.