Taking a break from the presidential race for a while.

[Mass]

At this point, there are way too many things that make me mad or worried, both with Obama or his supporters (If I see any other threads talking of what happens now as if fundamentally different from 00 or 04, I may explode, and I am less than enthused by the announced list of VP: I am coming to think Hillary would not be that bad a choice, so it should tell me that it is time for a break).

I've always known that elective politics was not my thing, but I think that this election makes the point even more clearly. I guess I will spend time invested in things I believe in (like non drilling: can we have a more lame bill than Reid offering to drill a little bit in Alaska because it would help some Dems http://thehill.com/leading-the-news/reid-plan-splits-dems-2008-07-28.html: what happened to right and wrong, or real solutions for healthcare and education). My only thought right now is that Obama will have a problem changing politics in DC if the same people are in charge of Congress.

[beachmom]

1. Re-read the "hit" piece about Obama in the New Yorker:

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2008/07/21/080721fa_fact_lizza?currentPage=all

Obama is SHREWD and sometimes even ruthless. If he continues to trust in Kerry's ideas (so far, so good), then the idiots in Congress who don't get it will be outmaneuvered. I think "Obama the Messiah" was never even close to who he was. I like Obama "the shrewd politician" much better, and think he will continue to be underestimated all the way up to the moment that he wins.

As to supporters, well many of them are old Deaniacs who won't let 2004 go. But I understand if you need a break from the lunacy and ignorance found on DU and throughout the liberal blogosphere.

[whometense]

2. I feel a lot like Mass does.

Electoral politics really aren't my thing either.

But I completely agree with you about Obama being shrewd. He beat the Clinton machine in the primaries. Do people not get how he did that? It sure wasn't on charisma alone. This guy has the angles figured out, has great people working for him, and like you I have great confidence in Obama the Shrewd (as opposed to Obama the Messiah).

I think Obama the Messiah is a useful construct to be pulled out when needed. Otherwise, eh. Those who are still trying to re-live the Deaniac dream are doomed to disappointment, no matter who the anointed carrier of their dreams happens to be.

Just read this in Salon: http://www.salon.com/politics/war_room/2008/07/29/obama_field/index.html

I won't quote the whole thing because there's a nasty piece of snark towards JK in it, but aside from that I think he has things right.

...One attendee with whom I spoke was struck by how this meeting differed from meetings in previous cycles, and in two ways. First, the Obama people stressed how they were not expecting or relying too much on outside to help organize at the grass-roots level because they will have a field campaign of their own rather than depending on groups to supply it...

[Mass]

3. I agree about shrewd Obama.

It is just that I am not done for this process, and I may be a little bit too of an idealist for the messy world of politics.

[whometense]

4. me too.

I think I'm just too thin-skinned. And I hate fighting. Two big disqualifiers for politics.

[ginnyinWI]

5. Chicago politics.

He's tough and street-wise and not an ideologue. I think he's got what it takes--yes he did cause the Goliath Clinton machine to trip and fall, didn't he? I have to laugh when the Right tries to call him weak and not a fighter.

[politicasista]

6. The apples and oranges game

It's been played for a while now (a likely will continue until November). I like Obama, but the Messiah talk, is becoming a turn off. I like "shrewd politician" better. Obama is not going to wave a magic wand and make things all better in January of 2009.

I think I will quietly support him by lurking at the urban blogs, and focus on other issues/things. It won't be less, but just not as vocal as GDP.

Amazing, Obama gets praised for saying nothing and taking the high road, while Kerry gets slammed for saying something and "failing" to take the low road (despite the over and over counter arguments). It's actually, stunning. People still believe the media spin rather than what really happened. But as long as they aren't talking about a favorite candidate/liberal progressive, it must be true! Sometimes are just, well, baffling.

Anyway, if the ignorance, lack of respect, apples and oranges game is going to be played, then I don't want no part of it.











edit for spelling

[karynnj]

7. This is because the "results" are used to "grade" what was done.

Had Kerry won, it would be attributed to his remarkable ability to continue to run a high road Presidential deserving campaign, in spite of the slime from the other side. Obama is , at this point looked at as a winner - and I hope he will be. Therefore, Kerry had to have done things wrong - because otherwise he would have won. Likewise, Obama is doing everything right because he is winning.

The fact is you can never know the outcome of the road not taken. For example, assume that Kerry spent say $5 million of his $75 million attacking the SBVT, he then would have had $5 million less in the fall, making it even less even. What would then have happened in August - now, the fact is that the problem was not so much the SBVT ads, but the time given by the media to them -- even as they somehow deemed Kerry's response not to be news. You would then have 2 sets of ads there and the media speaking to these guys - giving them more time than Kerry surrogates. To me, that changes nothing - if anything, it makes it more he said/she said.

Another idea would have been to find a show - 60 minutes? - where he could appear for a long period of time with people like his crew, people like Wade Sauders, who was a peer of Kerry's, and of course, Rassman and for them to speak at length on what happened with each of those medals - spelling out exactly who was on board when Kerry got medals. But, think of all the complaints Kerry still gets - including one from an ingrate named Clinton - that Kerry made the election too much about Vietnam.

It might well be that if we had the ability to see multiple parallel universes to see how every possible branch of every decision would have ended up, there may have been no set of Kerry decisions that would have ended with him in the WH. Likewise, favors the Democrat for many many reasons. I think Obama's overseas trip was brilliant, but if he loses, there will be DU people (maybe Clinton, Edwards or Nader supporters) who will say that even if he had to go completely alone, he should have gone to the military medical Center with absolutely no press or even press announcement. (Imagine McCain's frustration when the Center countered the McCain attack with - "Oh, but he was here." ) That is the type of decision that will be second guessed.

The fact is that political elections are not like duplicate bridge where every set of nominees get the same cards and the difference in results is due to skill and ability. There will though be some re-evaluation over time but not until it is far enough in the past that the passions die down.

[politicasista]

8. That's a excellent way of looking at it

And I hope Obama will be a winner. His trip to Europe/Middle East and speech in Berlin was great. Even if GDP talks about how the Europeans "loved" Obama, but liked Kerry only because he wasn't Bush (never mind that he went over there prior to Obama's trip as Blm noted).

I understand that Kerry (and Gore's) loss paved the way for things to be easier this time around. I hope Obama wins. And I respect the support that both have given to Obama, even if some (not all) of his supporters don't. I am glad Obama knows who has had his back (and will continue to) through the good, bad (and hopefully not the ugly).

Maybe I am just not understanding the media being let off the hook here or maybe I never will.

[Mass]

9. Who cares what some idiot on GDP thinks. Some people are simply uninformed.

Inform them if you want, but stop wringing your hands because somebody whose agenda you do not know say something.

Honestly, it is the process in general and not what some DUer says that makes me want to make a pause. Simply, the bean counting that goes with decision making at this stage wears me off. That is all. And I have very little patience for the preemptive defense of decisions that have not yet been made.

[politicasista]

10. No, I don't care. I am agreeing with your post

I understand your frustration and agree with a lot of it.

[wisteria]

11. I know we don't always agree, but here, I agree with everything you have said.n/t