To Kerry supporters who are backing Edwards in '08: This comment from JK tonight may interest you.

[beachmom]

This really got to me because this particular Edwards supporter lost his brother to the war, and Kerry attended the funeral, so I think there is a bond here. However, this poster was very hurt by Kerry endorsing Obama, and the timing, so I thought I would post the exchange here:

http://www.dailykos.com/comments/2008/1/23/16935/0738/50#c50

Sen Kerry (6+ / 0-)

Thank you for speaking out against this. And thank you again for coming to the funeral of my brother, Sgt. Russell Durgin and being there for my mother.

However, I do have to express my dissapointment in your endorsement of Obama. While I am supporting John Edwards, I could respect your decision to go with Obama. What I can't support is the new phenomenon of people waiting until the several primaries have taken place until making an endorsement. I'm sure you (and the others doing this) would deny it, but it's pretty obvious this is about waiting to see who you think can win rather than standing up early and strongly for someone you truly think would be the best candidate. In other words, if you really believe Obama is the best choice, then that endorsement should have been announced earlier.

RIP #21 Sean Taylor

by RIP Russ on Wed Jan 23, 2008 at 01:35:29 PM PST

Kerry's response:

my thoughts (45+ / 0-)

First of all, thank you for what your family has given our country. I know sometimes those just sound like words, but they're more than that.

You make an interesting point about the timing of my endorsement, and it's actually something I wrestled with. Let me share my thinking with you a little.

First, in my judgment, the outcome of this race is far far from clear. It's a dogfight. I endorsed Barack after he'd lost a tough fight in New Hampshire. I actually think that tells you how much I believe in my choice more than had I jumped on a bandwagon of some kind. If I had wanted to wait until the outcome was clear, I wouldn't have endorsed yet. This is still a very open race. I'm not playing it safe.

But the second point -- I want you to know this. It was a difficult decision. I gave a lot of thought to the timing. I wrestled with a feeling that for friends and colleagues of mine, and people I really cared about who were grinding it out in Iowa, they deserved the chance to make their case to the voters on their own, and not have the perception of someone parachuting in to get in the way of the intimate process that is Iowa. I remember feeling that way and bristling a little bit before Iowa and New Hampshire myself in 2003 and 2004 when some big name endorsements seemed to block out the sun for a few news cycles! And I took that to heart and really struggled with it this time. So, you may disagree with it, but I want you to know my thinking.

by John Kerry on Wed Jan 23, 2008 at 03:02:47 PM PST

This diary is still up, so if you want to, you can comment, too. RIPRuss was actually not particularly satisfied by John Kerry's answer, but I still thought you would want to see this.

[MBS]

1. I'd guessed all on my own that that was the reasoning behind

the timing of JK's endorsement. Good, sound, humane reasoning too.

[beachmom]

2. I think he was thinking of Dodd and Biden. They are good friends

of his, and he was considering their feelings among others.

[MBS]

4. absolutely he was thinking of them. No doubt in my mind. n/t

[louloulou]

3. Wow, this jarred my memory

>>I remember feeling that way and bristling a little bit before Iowa and New Hampshire myself in 2003 and 2004 when some big name endorsements seemed to block out the sun for a few news cycles!<<

Ah yes, Al Gore. What a horrible morning that was. I remember checking the blog and seeing all the gloating Dean people who linked to the Drudge story, which had Al Gore's face the size of Mount Rushmore endorsing Dean. They really beat us up that day.

Definite low moment of the campaign. I'm really glad time has healed that wound.

[Inuca]

5. I just saw this on Kos

What wonderful, heartfelt words. "I know sometimes those just sound like words, but they're more than that." is so simple, and rings so true. The whole answer sounds so authentic, one human being opening part of his heart to another, so far from the haughty brahmin politician image. Bittersweet. The way he describes his desire not to interfere with Biden and Dodd and his reaction to (the unnamed) Gore endorsement is very touching.

[Inuca]

6. "I'm not playing it safe"

No, he is not. And that's wonderful. I should end with a :-), but in view of the last few days/weeks, I feel more like :cry:

[saracat]

7. Well you asked for imput from some Edwards supporters and I have to say I am not sure how exactly

this is supposed to make us feel better. I still contend that in this situation the thing for JK to do would have been not to endorse anyone.Edwards has had to go on nearly every interview he has done and explain how he felt that his running mate didn't endorse him.Letterman even asked him if JK had called first or if John had called and asked him "why". John replied with a "joke"I'm not telling". That has got to be painful.Trya Banks in fact said, after another of Edwards flattering remarks about JK, that she could never have forgiven JK for such a thing.Some of you have tried to "explain " JK's going to SC to announce the endorsement as the request of the Obama campaign as though JK could not have refused to go.I still think it was not a particularly nice thing to do, whatever Jk's feelimgs may have been about whatever John might have said about him.Two wrongs never make a right.But it is what it is.I will always admire JK for his record and all his efforts but this is just one thing I don't get but it is just one thing.

[politicasista]

8. Unfortunately, Tyra's comments are not suprising

I know this is off the subject and doesn't help much, but that's why I was hoping that Kerry could have done some AA TV talk like Tyra's show (though she didn't have one in 2004) and others. It would have shown the human and real sides of him and Momma T.

The only things that many AA celebs like Tyra know about Kerry or mention about him is through negative talk like this, he "didn't"(he did) respond to the SBA, that he stabbed his former running mate in the back and yes, lost to the "worst" president ever.


I know I am sounding like a concerned person, but this is what I am talking about when I say that Kerry has a long way to go to get his reputation back than Gore (not to compare, but that's how I am seeing it).

[saracat]

9. I think that would have been a wonderful thing for him to do.I remember in Phoenix

the ONLY candidate to meet with the AA Caucus at all was Edwards.That was where i met him for the first time. I always thought JK could have helped himself a lot if he had focused more on the AA community.Sigh.We will never know.
I must say, It isn't John Edwards, regrdless of what has been insinuated in the past, who has had anything to say neagtive about JK.John has been very gracious.But others have not been.I can only say again, though I know others on this forum think John is getting what he deserves, that this has got to be painful.

[politicasista]

10. I think so too, though I think the campaign could have done more

I hate to sound negative, but I just don't know or hear many AA celebrities say they still support Kerry (even though he isn't running). I mean like "he lost, but I still respect him" type comments. They supported him in 04, but everything was spun as being against Bush. I know it shouldn't matter, but I am just curious. (yep. I know that that's hindsight and this is 2008 and not 2004).

I don't watch Tyra's show, but I did hear that Edwards was on and Tyra was impressed, so I am not suprised that she would take his side.

[ray of light]

13. As an observer of the whole election cycle so far...

having not adopted a candidate officially.

I just want to remind you that it's very well known that Hillary's people heavily courted JK's endorsement, and Obama and JK had at least one personal meeting. (Though since I wasn't there, I can not say what they discussed.) But it's common knowledge that both Obama and Hillary asked Kerry to endorse him.

It's also common knowledge that Edwards did not court Kerry's endorsement. So I really don't think it's fair to expect JK to support Edwards, or to withhold any support of a candidate, when there has been no communication between his people and Kerry's people since the election in 04. (To what is known in the public arena.)

If Edwards wanted JK's endorsement, then he should have asked for it. He also should not have set about dissociating himself from JK right from the end of the last election cycle, November 3, 2004.

I appreciate that you are solidly in Edward's camp so you don't want Edwards to be hurt by JK's endorsement. But in this case, I think JK has a right to make a private decision based on the most current information he has about the different candidates. And it was up to Edwards to make sure JK knew his plans, knew how he would handle the Office of the Presidency if he were to win the nomination, knew how Edward's would get legislation through, and how Edwards would run the country from the White House. Absent Edward's input, JK made a choice based on those who let him know what they would do and how they would do it. It's called an informed decision.

I feel that you are asking for JK's loyalty to Edwards but that you have not asked for loyalty to JK from Edwards. It's common knowledge that Edwards didn't keep Kerry in his loop. And it's common knowledge that Edwards immediately dissociated himself from JK. In my opinion, JRE made a political choice. He felt it was better to be seen as independent of JK rather than remain associated with JK.

I think JRE underestimated JK's ability to keep up the fight and to return to his activist roots and to get people to join him as he continues serving us and the state of MA (as Senator and former Presidential nominee.)

[saracat]

14. I merely said two wrongs don't make a right.Anyway. It doesn't matter anymore this endorsement thing

has gotten out of hand.I find it interesting that this "common knowledge" is accepted without question, though as in the case of not knowing what the Obama meeting was about, none can have any knowledge of any phone calls that might have been exchanged between the two men.We do not know anything .And I wasn't asking for JK's ,loyalty.I just believe for all parties concerned, it would have been better not to publicly endorse "anyone" till after the primary.Some may disagree.Whatever.As I stated ,it is what it is.

[JI7]

15. it wasn't wrong that Kerry endorsed Obama

it's not like Edwards held out running until Kerry made up his mind on whether to run. it was Kerry who offered the vp spot to Edwards.

[karynnj]

16. One source of JRE cutting out JK is Shrum

I do not see any reason to list the various unkind things said by both Edwards of the Kerrys. They have been defended or decried by both sides. I personally do not think it was personal. To think that demeans Kerry. Assume that he personally likes A better than B, but thinks B would be the better President - I am confident he would not endorse A over B. This is not a superficial honor, but the Presidency.

The fact is Kerry always - even in 1971 as an activist spoke of reconciliation and was completely against the more strident voices of the anti-war left. He was for working within the system then, not tearing it down to redo it. Obama is similar in tone on how best to create change. I would guess that the new Edwards persona railing against the corporations, which Kerry not he has a better record quietly fighting in the Senate, and the Congress itself - even threatening things he can't do (rescinding their health insurance) has not impressed Kerry.

Whether he is right or wrong, he is true to himself. Obama and Kerry are more similar in temperament, they are both introspective and somewhat quiet. They both are intensely serious and chose lives of public service. They both got involved in activism as young men - and both see that part of their respective lives as informing them in their legislative careers.

The fact is that you and many other Edwards people ignore that Kerry GAVE Edwards the visibility and the status of having run on a national ticket. If anything, JRE owed Kerry, not the other way around. Did you read the NYT article on JRE in 2004? - where he is quoted on his independence in 2004 - as in refusing to use the campaign's slogan because he preferred his primary one. I am surprised he told this story - because I remember the 2004 criticism that the Campaign could not even decide on a slogan. My reaction reading that was that JRE was a pompous jerk in signing on to be VP than refusing to play the role. This was a JRE quote. Kerry was not available for comment as he and Teresa were in Africa doing some oversight work on how money was spent on the AIDS in Africa bill that he was one of the authors of.

The other thing is that Kerry did wait until after NH and Iowa. Edwards almost lived in Iowa for years and came in 8 points behind Obama and essentially tied with HRC. He did worst in some groups he targeted the most and saw the most.

[ray of light]

17. Saracat, the common knowledge has been sited in numerous

noteworthy papers--and reliable sources outside of Fox News or CNN. You make it sound as if it's just rumor or innuendo.

You have no evidence that says Edward's people contacted Kerry. There are no rumors to even support that idea. And there's no evidence to even support a rumor of that nature! Yet reliable papers across this country have noted the meetings between Hillary and her connections and Obama and his meetings with Kerry.

You are the one who insists that Kerry shouldn't endorse. Every candidate for President and every Congressman has the right to endorse a candidate of their choosing. In fact those people are considered 'super delegates'. John Kerry did not lose the right to endorse anymore than anyone else did just because he ran for President in 04 with JRE.

Edwards had the opportunities to get Kerry's endorsement if he wanted it. He obviously chose to cut his ties with Kerry rather than stick with the fact that Kerry was actually right in 04 and only the media blinded people to it.

And don't kid yourself Saracat, you are demanding loyalty from Kerry to JRE when you ask him to put aside all the years of fighting for the good of this country and ask him to stay silent. You support Edwards. You speak out about it. But you demand that John Kerry not speak about who he supports. That's just not right. I believe Kerry has the right to be true to his own heart and his own values. If Obama is the person who fills that spot, then so be it. He has the right to say it and to push for his beliefs.

He spoke out against Bush. He spoke out against Alito. He spoke out for causes he believes in such as stopping climate change and getting us out of Iraq. Kerry speaks for the causes he believes in. It's his right, just like it's your right. And just like it's Edward's right to speak out for or against things or people he believes in too. And just like it was Edward's right to chose to separate himself from Kerry instead of stick with him. People make choices and as long as those choices are legal, I have no problem with allowing all of them to be voiced.

Edwards and his supporters do not make friends by trying to stifle free speech when it doesn't agree with their opinion.

[saracat]

18. Last I looked this OP was meant to somehow make Edwards supporters feel better.

I responded that it doesn't for many of us. It seems that many feel I do not have a right to my opinion and feel that I cannot support Sen. Kerry without condoning this endorsement.Sen.Kerry and you all apparently have the right to an opinion and I don't.I have said, I do NOT agree.I do NOT have to approve of everything someone does in order to respect or support them.I have stood up and publicly given my support to JK against his own advisers.I defended JK in public at an Edwards meeting just yesterday.Many people , as you well know , still have erroneous impressions of JK and they are vicious.But it has become obvious to me that some do not want my opinion in this forum if I do not walk in lockstep.I am sorry about that but I am not going to change my mind.I guess I will quietly go away till after the election and then reconsider.I will relieve some of the burden of my dissenting opinion.I have NOT been posting but I only responded to this as it was addressed to Edwards supporters.I apologize.My mistake.I will miss you all.

[ray of light]

19. You are the one who says he can't endorse.

I responded to you politely. I pointed out that it's unfair to ask Kerry to not endorse. However, much as you feel that you're being told to shut up, you have in essence told John Kerry to shut up. That's my opinion. This isn't GD. This is the Kerry support group.

I too admire some of what Edwards says. However, I also recognize that Edwards made some very poor tactical decisions in 04 throughout 08. One of them was dissing John Kerry and letting Kerry be his 'fall guy' for the 04 election.

However, after Edwards withdraws from the primaries or uses his votes as a bargaining tool, he too will be taking sides between Hillary and Obama. I will not sit in the Edward's forum telling Edwards to shut up--don't endorse Hillary or Obama.



Support JRE. Support whoever you want. But you are the one making the choice to hear my words as 'Shut up" when that was not what I said. You are making the choice to pull yourself out of this forum. I did not try to stifle your dissent. I simply responded that in your support of JRE you are treating JK like a second class citizen by telling him he can not advocate for what he truly values! And that's not right.

[saracat]

22. I didn't say he "can't endorse".I said I disagree that he should.That is my opinion.

I will not support a decision by JRE, should he endorse Obama either.And it would never make me vote for Obama. That would be his decison, not mine.I do not support my Governor in her decision.She stabbed the Clintons, with whom she has a long relationship as both a Clinton appointment and friend of Hillary's, (and who I do not support either,) in the back.Those are their opinions.They are obviously not yours ,my Governor's, or Kerry's.In my Governor's case, Janet has always said she would never endorse in a Primary.She broke her word.I don't have to like it.All of these people can do as they wish.No one is stopping them, least of all me.But I reserve the right not to approve of it.I guess that is the risk they take when they choose to endorse.I, also take a risk stating that I think they are wrong for various reasons. It is just an opinion.

[beachmom]

23. Do you think Al Gore stabbed Kerry in the back in '04 by endorsing Dean?

After all, Kerry endorsed Gore prior to NH, when Bradley was giving Gore some trouble. Shouldn't Gore have returned the favor?

It obviously upset Kerry at the time (as you can tell in his comment), but "stabbed in the back"? What hogwash.

I don't understand why you're pummelling anyone who endorses Obama. I really don't get it.

[saracat]

24. Simply making my point that no matter who endorses Obama I woulfn't agree with

them. I was asked about "what if JRe edorsed Obama" Much as I support JRE, I still wouldn't support Obama.Get it?. I was responding to the hypothetical.I can respect someone and not agree with their endorsement.And yeah, I would bet you money JK felt stabbed in the back. Whatever.

[beachmom]

25. Okay. Fair enough. I realize I don't want to turn up the heat on all of this.

My original OP was because I thought JK's comment was poignant, but I acknowledge that not everyone is going to feel that way. I think these primaries are going to be over sooner than many think, and then hopefully the repair work can be begin.

Peace.

[ray of light]

20. Personally, I would not find comfort in that OP if I were 100% behind

Edwards. But I believe the comfort Beachmom intended to parlay was that JK didn't take the endorsement lightly. That he considered his friends and the people who fought with him/for him before coming out with his endorsement. He realized his own supporters were working with different peoples' campaigns, so he allowed all of them to participate in the intimate caucuses at Iowa and make their best case for the candidate of their choosing. (OR if they were a candidate for them to put their best foot forward without worrying that he would rob the news cycle from their personal conversations with Iowans.)

That's classy and caring.

JRE had ample time to make personal contacts in Iowa and elsewhere prior to JK's endorsement. So did Dodd, Biden, Kucinich, Hillary, and others.

The problem as I see it is that JK can't please everyone all the time. So he used his own memory of Iowa and the 2004 campaign to allow people their personal space with constituents. And he also had to follow his conscience the same way that JRE follows his.

[karynnj]

21. You have a right to an opinion - to support JRE

Kerry has a right to support someone - Obama. Kerry has said that he knows and respect many people supporting him will not support Obama. His team even put out info to let people continue getting his emails - without the Obama related ones.

The only think I object to was your saying:
- Kerry "betrayed" Edwards or was not loyal to him. Where does this debt to JRE come from? If anything JRE owed him - his negative JK comments DID violate loyalty.

- The refusal to accept that Kerry made the decision for reasons given.

But of these accusations unfairly attack Kerry. He is not a person disloyal to others allied to him and he does not make a decision as important as this for personal reasons.

[beachmom]

11. Well, it is clear from his comment that he agonized about this, and

was considering people's feelings. That's all I was trying to point out.

[MBS]

12. yes, indeed. Yet more evidence of Sen. Kerry's

compassion and character.