Okay, Kerrycrats, same question I asked in GD to the undecideds

[LittleClarkie]

How much does the Kerry endorsement affect your vote for president.

Not at all?

Made you stop and think?

As for me, it made me stop and think. I'm looking at Obama, and I wasn't before. The door is open. Don't know if I'll go through it yet, or if my vote will even matter since my primary is after Super Tuesday.

But then, I know some of you have already committed to a candidate so I don't know if his endorsement did anything for you at all.

[politicasista]

1. Something I noticed

Why do people keep bringing up Kerry not wanting the votes counted or conceding? You would think after 3 1/2 years the facts would be clear, but to each is own.

[LittleClarkie]

2. I know, it doesn't make any sense

I think it's the perception that Edwards was willing to fight and Kerry wasn't. So now Kerry didn't go with Edwards, and there are some bitter beer faces being made out there.

[politicasista]

5. Yep. And..

ProSense keeps posting that election reform link over and over again too.

[LittleClarkie]

8. Prosense does such a good job of informing

too bad the knee jerk reactions of those who no longer think win out half the time.

[politicasista]

11. She does

She also seems to ask the questions that either get crickets or no one wants to answer. (Ok, reasonable posters will answer. :)).

I agree with you about the knee jerk reactions too.

[ProSense]

21. .

:blush:

[karynnj]

24. Edwards said nothing for over a year

The comment on election night was the campaign's - even Edwards would not go out on his own. This is the new antiwar Edwards, who would have been out in the streets, but mean old Kerry wouldn't let him. He is pandering to the leftie fringe - he even moved left when Kerry didn't join the race. It says something that Kuchinich did not send his people to Edwards and his statement was very frank on why.

For this little stunt alone, I would bet Kerry would not endorse him. Ignoring the harm to Kerry's own reputation - there is something very wrong with declaring fraud in something this important without proof. It also makes it harder to concentrate on what is more important - we can't have a system which is hackable, if we want to be a democracy.

[LittleClarkie]

27. That's a good point about Kucinich. I thought it odd at the time.

I didn't here why though. I'll have to go google that. I couldn't figure out why Kucinich would support Obama over Edwards, as I think Obama is a bit to the right of Edwards, at least the Edwards of here and now.

[karynnj]

23. They have their own version of reality

It it, if Senator Kerry refused to concede, the following would happen:

-Everything would stop and get very quiet until the officials in Ohio agreed they had to do a recount. (forget the official is Blackwell , whose response would be neither positive or quiet.

- All the votes would be re-counted and they would find the number was wrong - off by say 100,000. That recounts never find a tenth of that amount doesn't matter.

- Kerry would be proclaimed the next President and Bush would begin to tear out his hair.

The fact is that most of the precincts couldn't be recounted - there were no paper trails. None of the analyses were based on something that could be corrected by recount. You can't count votes never cast - the situation in over half of RFKjrs "lost votes". Also votes with mistakes that cause them to register for unlikely candidates can not be corrected (as you would do if it was data in a corporate study and you knew the obvious fix. (the Caterpillar ballot was like that). Even now they can prove that it was and is possible to hack the machines and that there were suspicious results in some precincts. With this it's got to be difficult to prove there was fraud, let alone who did it.

Now imagine what would have happened even if Kerry summarized this as well as possible arguing the election was tainted - but he could not identify where his extra votes were. How would the media that never gave him the full respect they have to all candidates in the past react to this? Even if Kerry could prove fraud, but not that he conclusively won, what happens? In Fl the default was said to be (by the US constitution ) that the legislature (yeah Republican) decides.

Part of the reason it is as strong as it was is a certain former VP nominee who thinks this is a clever thing to play politics with. Though, note, he NEVER says this in the mainstream media - that will happen when 51% of Democrats believe it would have worked. (It's things like this when I think that Gore and Kerry could have a very interesting conversations about VPs if they were 100% sure it was private.)

[MH1]

3. Solidifies my choice for Obama; I may work for him now, too.

I was leaning pretty hard toward Obama anyway, but I expected JK to endorse...for the same reasons that I thought Obama would be my choice.

If JK didn't endorse I would have probably voted for Obama in the primary and not done much more. But since JK is backing him, I have now donated and will probably at least do a little volunteering.

So yes, JK's endorsement did matter, even though it didn't change my probable vote.

Edit to note: all of the above assumes there is still a competition come the first week of April, when my primary is. Sigh.

[Democrafty]

12. I feel the same way. My reading of JK's speech yesterday is that

he's really encouraging involvement and activism, and so I'm now at the point where I feel like it would be helpful to JK to work for Obama in my state. I think one of the ways we can support JK is to make it clear that Obama gained the work of a group of formerly uncommitted activists when JK endorsed him.

[karynnj]

25. I agree - and feel the same

I agree that mentioning that it was JK's wonderful speech that turned us to be active Obama speeches helps.

[BlueIris]

4. My opinion of Obama is unchanged. nt

[Noisy Democrat]

6. I was in the category of "Dunno, barely care"

with respect to the Big 3, and now I support Obama, because of Kerry's endorsement. Doesn't mean I'm gung-ho rabidly thrilled with the guy, but I'm on board and have sent him some money. If I'd already made up my mind for someone else, Kerry's endorsement wouldn't have had much impact on me -- though I would've found it a bit distressing --, but because I was basically wondering "Which one irritates me the least?" JK's endorsement has huge sway.

[LittleClarkie]

7. Indeed. I feel similarly. Do you think my donation to Kerry will be used for Obama?

I always assume when I donate to Kerry's Senate campaign (just as I used to donate to the "Friends of Kerry") that my money wasn't really going to be used for Kerry's benefit, as he's pretty safe. I assume it's going to be used by Kerry for other candidates as he sees fit. But then I don't even know if he can do that with his Senate race money. I'm a little in the dark there. Regardless, when Kerry calls, I give if I can. They don't even get to finish their shpeil. I just say "HOLD IT RIGHT THERE. You just said the magic word. Let me go get my credit card." I reckon he'll use the money for a good cause either way.

[karynnj]

26. I assume that he will use money for his Senate campaign

I think he has both a Senate campaign and a leadership PAC, that has been used to raise money for others - He sent the email out to fund raise for Obama. I assume that the costs incurred were his. the good thing about that is from the numbers in the various articles around the time of the "Hey John" mess - he has a better ratio of money raised to money spent than normal. (Hillary's numbers showed she used just under half (mid 40 percent) the money she raised to fundraise.)

[TayTay]

37. No, it will not.

The donations are separate. Should Sen. Kerry make a donations to the Obama campaign, you will hear about it.

Right now those donations are done through the website, but by the individuals themselves.

[beachmom]

9. Not at all, actually. I was already 100% behind Obama, with or without

Kerry's endorsement, so his endorsement seemed to me to mean -- hey, Kerry agrees with me!! How nice. The truth is there were tell tale signs that he would like Obama best; the only question to me was whether he would stay silent or speak up. I couldn't imagine him endorsing Edwards or Clinton, but I wasn't sure whether he would endorse at all.

Good luck thinking it over, Little Clarkie. I can tell you that JK DID affect my vote in the Virginia Senate primary, and it ended up he was right, so he actually is not a bad "chooser", IMO.

[politicasista]

10. Do you think the ones who are complaining about him not

holding out and making JRE the victim would have had a different reaction? I don't think so.

I am supporting Obama and will lurk at his site more often now.

[beachmom]

13. I think the safest choice for Kerry would be to say nothing.

He is going out on a limb here, especially since Hillary won NH. This race is completely up in the air, and anything can happen. So I thought it showed considerable courage to speak his mind.

I think the Kerry/Edwards "feud", if you want to call it that, is now out in the open showing a gaping wound. It was always there; it was in article after article, but I guess the media thought they could seize that meme for people who WEREN'T paying attention. But the whole thing is weird to me since Edwards will not be the nominee -- he has no chance of that -- so this is only about hurt feelings, not really about Kerry changing any dynamics in the race.

[politicasista]

18. Yep. I guess it's a damned if you do, damned if you don't

It's always interesting that you don't see the ones who are bitter posting in pro-Kerry issue threads.

[LittleClarkie]

19. That's another reason I may come out for Obama, the fact that Kerry's out on a limb

and if I say I have his back, now would be a good time to prove it.

[LittleClarkie]

14. I'm probably being selfish, but it feels like if I go with Obama it will be like

campaigning for Kerry again.

Because I think that if Obama wins, that Kerry might get a post in his administration. I don't think Edwards or Hillary will appoint him for anything now.

Is that a bad reason to go with Obama?

[Democrafty]

15. I don't think it's a bad reason. I think the worst thing you can do is

nothing.

If your heart is really in it because of JK, I don't think you should be judged for that.

[beachmom]

16. Really? I have him staying in the Senate and helping out from there.

Because from what I understand, Congress will write the bills, and if you have a nice alliance set up between Congress & the WH, things go more smoothly. But I suppose it is possible that he could go for a cabinet position. The one problem with that is that would limit his time in public office. He could be a senator for a long time, if he wants.

[Noisy Democrat]

17. I have similar thinking

It's like campaigning for JK again, but one step removed. Because of that, my energy is a bit lower -- I'm not going to knock myself out for Obama as I did for JK in 2004, nor repeatedly load as many contributions onto my credit card as I can, as I did in 2004 -- but I *will* donate and help. Part of my motivation for supporting Obama is that I generally want to put my political energy into whatever helps John Kerry advance his agenda, since it's one I wholeheartedly believe in. So if it's helpful to JK that he can "deliver" some of his supporters to Obama's camp, then even if we don't know the specific way in which it might help JK, I'm willing to pitch in.

I don't see how that could be a bad thing unless we were such mindless followers that we were willing to support someone utterly obnoxious just on JK's say-so. But we're not zombies, and he didn't pick someone obnoxious, so I think it's perfectly reasonable to feel that now, part of supporting JK is supporting Obama.

ETA: I don't know if JK would leave the Senate to be in an Obama administration. I don't know if it would be a good thing for him to do even if it were offered to him. I'm not thinking that specifically, though I tend to assume he'll stay in the Senate. I'm just thinking more generally that now that JK has thrown his support behind Obama, supporting Obama is good for JK.

[karynnj]

30. He may also feel the people of MA just re-elected him.

Secretary of State, if he and Obama really are on the same page, - and he has almost repeated Kerry's words on diplomacy, might be interesting. There is a huge amount to do as it could cover all the needed conflict resolution and the global warming conferences - both things Kerry has worked on forever. There have been times in the past when the SoS was more expert than the President - that was likely true with Clinton and definitely with Carter and Ford.

That is the one thing I can see Kerry going to the people of MA and explaining that his work there would exceed all he could do in the Senate. Assuming Obama and his administration are successful enough that he is re-elected, you are then speaking of a 72 year old Kerry (who given who he is could still be riding in the Pan Mass bike race, if not windsurfing!)

[karynnj]

29. No, even if Kerry remains Senator from MA

if Obama is President, he will likely be a very trusted confidant and advisor. He will be at least 18 th in seniority (I don't know if anyone higher is leaving or vulnerable - though maybe Senator Stevens will go) His intelligence, creativity and his Senate position would be enhanced if he has the President's ear.

If HRC wins, I doubt there is much she can do to punish him - other than not invite him and Teresa to the White House for dinner. He is very capable and she would hurt her own agenda if she fought things because they were his.

[ProSense]

20. Good question!

Endorsements are good, especially when they come from people you trust. T

My question: Endorsements have been posted and celebrated since the beginning of the primary, why would anyone think Kerry's carry less weight?

Kerry's endorsement, despite what the the naysayers claim, was coveted not only because of his e-mail list, but also because there are people who trust and respect him. The fact that Kerry works closely with Obama in the Senate adds even carry more weight.

The sour grapes are just that, sour grapes. You think Taylor Marsh is having a meltdown because she cares about Edwards?

Anyone believe there would have been less bitterness and venom had he endorsed one of the other candidates?

[politicasista]

22. Maybe

It may have slightly quieted the "my respect for him now is even lower" or "slap in the face of Edwards and Clinton" "he should have waited until later or when we have the nominee" "he folded like a lawn chair" "didn't inspire people" comments. And those comments are coming from posters I like out there.

Thankfully, this isn't the Real World. I am done for the evening. :hi:

[karynnj]

34. The key is that I did not see a single person with an Obama avatar complaining

The ones I see most are the Edwards people. Part was a feeling that he should endorse Edwards (they apparently see no contradiction in it being ok for Edwards to trash him and Kerry having to be loyal forever.) To Edwards' credit, he seems to realize that he had no reason to expect it. (Both Leiberman and Kerry were somewhat hurt when Gore endorsed Dean.)

The other part is that many of the new Edwards people are the left fringe who completely buy the corruption fighting, anti-war activist, man of the people Halloween costume chosen for 2008. (Had he won there biggest shock would have been the lightening fast change of clothes to get more to the center.

I was tempted on DU to simply mention that per Shrum, Edwards refused to take Kerry's calls. (though Elizabeth took the Kerrys' call when she got the bad diagnoses. It's really hard to blame Kerry when Edwards won't even take his calls.

[politicasista]

36. Great summary n/t

[karynnj]

32. I agree - just look at the Clarkies

They were most definitely not pro- HRC. Many were still waiting for him to jump in. But, far more than half seem to be with HRC, though one of the two I respect most switched to Obama, even though I'm sure her respect for Clark is likely as strong as ever. In the real world, there were more people who favored Kerry, than Clark. His endorsement also did one thing we've seen in every eulogy and endorsement - many of the characteristics he praises Obama for are ones we all see in Kerry himself. This makes respect for Kerry more transferable. (I think that Obama's temperament and positions are closer to Kerry's then DU's perception of Clark's were to HRC)

I think that Obama's positions will not be Kerry's, but they will be closer than HRC's or Edwards' would be. Not to mention, the legislation written in the Senate is not dictated by the President.

[Mass]

28. Not at all because I was already decided.

If I had decided for somebody else, it would not have changed my mind. I may have looked again at Obama for my second choice, but it is all.

If I had been undecided, I definitively would have looked at Obama with a lot of interest, because there would have been now a number of people I respect, including Kerry, who were endorsing him.

But, of course, this is all hypothetic in my case, given that I have been leaning towards Obama for a while, and that he had really convinced me way before yesterday.

[wildflowergardener]

31. Made me stop and think

It has always been between Obama and Edwards for me (as long as Gore or Kerry weren't in the race). I'm not thrilled about either honestly. In the end what it will probably come down to who I think has the best chance of beating Hillary Clinton.

However, it did push me more in the direction of Obama last night. I liked Edwards in 2004 but because of the bad blood I've read on here between the Edwards' and Kerry it made me like him less, and I did come to see through the 2004 race that there didn't seem to be anything that substantial to him - like sometimes I wonder how much of this is an act? I liked what I saw in the last debate but found myself doubting somewhat whether I should, and trying to remember why I did have some negative feelings towards him - what had happened and that maybe I shouldn't let myself be convinced by him again just to be dissapointed again.

I don't have these possible negativities feelings towards Obama - I just don't feel I have enough info about him yet to make an informed choice, so I need to do more research. I think Obama seems more genuine - and if nothing else the endorsement maybe made me watch his speech more closely than I would have, and reconsider my conserns I did have about experience - after all how much more experience does Edwards really have if any. If Obama has people like Kerry on his side and is willing to listen to their opinions, I think that's a really good thing. I really liked the young Kerry and would have voted for him if I'd been alive then if he'd been running then. Just because you're young doesn't mean you can't have the right ideas, and you can get more experienced people to help you if you are willing to listen to others ideas.

It wouldn't have made a bit of difference if it had been Hillary. If it was Edwards it might have made me wonder if the stories I'd read on here were really true - now it likely confirms them.

Meg

[LittleClarkie]

33. Alot of your story is my story

Waffling between Edwards and Obama... feelings about Edwards going downhill after hearing about the conflicts in the campaign... stuff like that.

If Obama turns out to be the only viable candidate besides Clinton, then I'll almost have to go with him. I can't face voting for Hillary unless I have to in the general election.

[wildflowergardener]

35. 2004

It is interesting to think of where I was in 2004 even later than this year.

The day I voted I was very undecided still between Kerry and Edwards. I wrote to Kerry and said I voted for you, but I had a hard time deciding and like you both - please make Edwards your running mate.

Obviously he took my advice ; )

However the more I saw of Kerry the more I liked him. The more I saw of Edwards - well I didn't like him so much less - I still liked him OK.

I think there's a chance that I could like Obama alot more, and I'd rather be thrilled with the presidential candidate even if there's just a chance than just ok. I know with Edwards it will remain just OK.

So maybe I'll be voting for hope (that I'll get to like Obama really well)

Meg

[rox63]

38. I was pretty certain I was for Obama before the endorsement

I just consider JK's endorsement to be confirmation of my sound judgement.