My afternoon with a Republican

[sandnsea]

Life is weird. Wasn't it just yesterday that I posted that I really don't talk about the election and the loss and all of that because it hurts too much? I had a surprise visit from an old Republican friend who I haven't seen in about a year. At one point he wanted to know how it would have been different with Kerry as President. So the first time I really had to talk about "why Kerry" and deal with everything that we lost, was with a Republican. lol. It was good. We were right guys. Republicans just fucked up and I had the feelng this guy knows it. Here's what I wrote because it really was the feeling and gist of my afternoon. Sorry it's so long, but it was really good to hear all of this from a Republican.

A Republican, Coffee and Me
10 February 2005

I spoke with a Republican today. That is a big deal for me, I’ve avoided almost all political conversations since Black Tuesday. For some time afterward, I had no intention of ever speaking to a Republican again. Or at least not a Bush voting one. A crisis in my family changed some of that, life and death situations have a tendency to do that.

Anyway, I was blogging during the final vote on the Class Action Bill, taking notes on which Dems voted for that pile of crapola. There was a soft knock at the front door and I was agitated at the interruption, figuring it was a salesman or Jehovah’s Witness. I opened the door and there stood my friend, who had just driven half way across the country and didn’t call first because he wanted to surprise us! Well, in an instant, the election, the disagreements, the swift boat stuff... and friendship; all flashed through my mind. I screamed, we hugged, and I invited him in for coffee.

We chatted about the usual at first, kids, weddings, grandkids, finances. Then he asked the question, “Are you still bummed about the election?” “Oh my lord, don’t go there,” I told him. “I just don’t want to talk about it.” “Well,” he said, “if it all upsets you so much, do something to change it.” Excuse me? “Heh, I have been doing something for the last 2 years.”

What followed was a two hour conversation with no raised voices, no rhetoric, nothing but two Americans who care desperately about their country. I think what he had to say is worthwhile.

First, Kerry lost because he didn’t talk about his war protesting. I guess I should add that this friend is a Vietnam combat vet, an officer, special ops. He was completely disgusted with the medal stuff, but was frustrated that Kerry didn’t fight on the Vietnam war itself. He felt that every boomer and vet in the country would have rallied behind him if he’d taken a strong stand on why he protested. “We went over there with the intention of serving our country. We all knew after a short time that things weren’t right in Vietnam. He spoke for all of us.” He felt that if Kerry had taken the lessons learned and applied them appropriately to Iraq, the rank and file soldiers would have understood. Primarily, politicians and corporations screw up wars.

This guy fully supports the military and fully supports the idea of using military force to bring some peace to the world, if that’s what it takes. He prefers America, the peacecorps type peace builders, the helpers. He is disgusted with what we haven’t done in Afghanistan and Iraq and blames it on political and corporate interests instead of clear-thinking military decisions. He thinks if Kerry had made those connections between Vietnam and Iraq, it would have been easy for all Vietnam vets to support him and transfer that support to a lot of the military.

The other thing I noticed was a complete lack of knowledge of John Kerry, outside of Vietnam. I mentioned he was Chair of the SBA for 6 years, well he didn’t know that. That he pushed for cops on the streets and Bush cut it, he didn’t know either of those things. Kerry’s consistent work on the Kyoto Protocol, and that even though he knew it wasn’t right yet, he was determined to keep at it; and that persistence in the face of extreme difficulty is a quality I admire. His persistence on Vietnam vet issues and Vietnam itself, he doesn’t leave people behind. He hadn’t considered these as evidence of Kerry’s leadership abilities and character.

At the end of the day, it is always amazing to me how much Americans actually have in common. He does not want the troops to be used as a corporate tool. He doesn’t want groups of people left in violence or starvation because their countries have no resources to exploit. He doesn’t understand why we can see the wrong in the English occupation of India or apartheid in South Africa, but can never see the wrong in our own occupations. He doesn’t understand why we spend “who knows how much, really” on the military and leave people to starve. He does not want our corporations to have the power they have or to exploit labor in third world countries. He is intensely concerned about the environment. He hates the gang violence in the cities. He thinks people have the right to own guns, but nobody should own a machine gun. He thinks everybody pretty much wants the same things, except for the few “haters” who are always after some minority group. He thinks if things don’t change soon, the country is lost.

After all of this, it certainly is baffling to me why he voted for Bush. I think he voted Republican out of habit. He was raised that way. But the Republicans should be on notice. Abortion and gays did not come up once in this conversation. And this is the last chance for the Republicans with my friend.

http://www.lightupthedarkness.org/blog/default.asp?view=plink&id=357

[saracat]

1. What a wondeful post, sandnsea.

Just today I was saying to my husband that I am through with all Republicans, and that still remains true for the most part.I can still not justify a vote for Bush, even if they didn't know the slightest thing about Kerry. What Bush has done is obvious and why anyone would want more is beyond me.But your post is a ray of hope in the darkness, just as your address states. Maybe some are not beyond hope. It will not be me however that guides them. Thank you for sharing a terrific post!

[JI7]

2. i do think

it would have been better for the campaign to get out more about what Kerry had done through the years. and about Vietnam it shouldn't just have been promoted as him having served in a war but included the things he did right into recent years with helping normalize relations. this would have helped with Iraq and Afghanistan. people would see he could actually make things better for both nations rather than it just being about whether he wants to end a war or not. as you say the comparison between Vietnam and Iraq would have been the LEADERS LIED to the nation.

attacks on candidates are also most effective when they are unknowns as was the case with Kerry. this is why it's important to get out what he did through the years. if people know more about him it makes the attacks on him less effective without even really having to respond to those attacks. not only did he serve on the small business committee but he worked in a small business unlike Bush. he wasn't the rich wealthy kid people claim he was and which Bush really was. he came from a family that was mostly middle class but he was lucky in that his aunt paid for the great education he got(which his own parents could not afford). but he had to take blue collar type jobs to help support himself.

promoting the work he did as a prosecutor and his investigations going after those who fund terrorists would have added to his vietnam service to show he is a lifetime fighter and would allow people to be more comfortable with him as willing to defend the nation.

i don't mind the slow or lack of response to the attacks as much as them not promoting his record more. there is just so much positive there which could do nothing but help him and yet they didn't make those a bigger issue as they should have.

[LittleClarkie]

3. I should know this, but what is SBA

he was chairman of the SBA? What is that?

Wow, interesting post. He sounds like some of the moderate Republicans I know who voted for Kerry. If this is the last chance for the Republicans for him, I wonder where he will go next. Dems or Libs.?

[sandnsea]

16. Small Business Administration

Sorry. Chair of the Small Business Administration Committee. He wanted to make it cabinet level and also bring small business into the WTO. I don't know how this campaign didn't know what a HUGE deal that would have been to small businesses. That single thing would have put rural America in play more than any other issue.

[TayTay]

4. The whole Vietnam thing was badly handled

in retrospect. (And yet, I feel like a jerk for bringing it up. Hindsight and 20/20 vision, you know.) For me, the most significant part of the protest that Kerry was involved in all those many years ago was how fervently he supported his fellow Vets. This wasn't just the hippy protest thing (not that there is anything wrong with that.) This was a principled stand based on the fact that all these young guys were being treated as disposable people. They did go to war and they were discarded afterwards, almost as national afterthoughts. (Oh, are you still here? Why?)

Kerry's testimony to Congress was about how the Vets were seriously mistreated as government policy. They had been asked to go to war or drafted to same and then completely set adrift as to how to deal with the consequences of what they had seen and done. No treatment programs for addicted vets, no outreach programs to heal what could be healed, nothing that signaled that these guys had done something (however questionable morally) for the nation and gotten nothing in return. (This was so different from the WWII generation who had gotten GI Bills and praise and parades and such.) Kerry's testimony was an act of patriotism and it was distorted at the time into something else and continues to be distorted by lesser men into something it was not. Sigh!

It took real courage to do what he did back then. It took real leadership abilities to go into that movement and stop it from deteriorating into a violent and scattered gathering without a strict purpose. That he was able to do that was amazing. (And for someone so young. Quite remarkable.) That lesser men who never even served and have no idea what they are talking about when it comes to war could slime him over this is an outrage. And a hint that if they did it to the Vietnam guys, it will easy to do it to the current group who are serving in Iraq. The Iraq Vets will see their benefits cut, their treatment programs slashed, no outreach to prevent these folks from being homeless, no programs to help them integrate what they have seen back into their lives. This is the real tragedy, that it can happen again. That should have been brought up.

[JI7]

5. it is already happening

they don't even have the equipment they need to fight in that war. they aren't getting the care they deserve and i saw an article about some being homeless already.

you are right that Kerry protest focused on the wrongs commited by the non military leaders including their lies which were hurting the soldiers and the people of vietnam. his testimony was criticism of the civilian leadership not of the military itself. just like that worthless piece of shit coward is doing right now with Iraq. of course he was also one of the chickenhawks who fully supported the vietnam war yet refused to serve himself.

[karynnj]

7. I wish every voter could have seen this post on say Nov 1

It answers any question anyone could have had on character, patriotism and ability to lead in healing the country.

[LittleClarkie]

17. But Sandnsea's friend is sane

some of the folks who were reacting to "sKerry" weren't operating with all their oars in the water.

There's alot that could have been said in Kerry's defense that wasn't.

I agree that it wasn't as good a campaign as it could have been. Sometimes I wonder what side Shrum was on. Who did he work for, Democrat-wise, before Kerry's campaign.
:tinfoilhat:
What if he's a Republican in disguise?

[karynnj]

6. Sad, interesting post

I do think that there was a major problem getting Kerry's whole biography out. But in fairness, part of the problem was that the media drastically cut coverage of the conventions, most of the stations did not do the typical pre-convention softball biographies that I remember from past years, and the coverage of his rallies was pathetic. Other than the convention, the only unfiltered media was the debates - which were never as clear cut a blowout as last year.

I had a similar experience, although in this case the person did vote for Kerry, but reluctantly. We went to thanksgiving at my sister's house. Her husband, my favorite in-law, is a liberal, very politically conscious person. He was in the peace corps years ago and over his career he has worked on projects helping third world countries. He has been to Iraq and saw how devastated their scientific community is and is very genuine in his view that we can't desert them after all the chaos. He totally dislikes everything that Bush stands for, but wasn't sure if Kerry would stay in Iraq. After the debates, he trusted that Kerry was at least as likely to try to help.

His remaining problem was that though he credited Kerry with being very smart, he was disturbed that Kerry had so few accomplishments in the Senate. He was stunned that Kerry had anything to do with Iran/Contra. He had never heard about BCCI. The Republican line that he did nothing for 20 years really hurt. With the help of my niece (another sister's daughter, a student at Georgetown Law School) we spend at least a half an hour impressing him with Kerry's real biography.

One question for the future would be whether the problem was specific to Kerry's complicated biography or whether the media was really stacked against the Democrats. Before 2008 a way to publize the candidate has to be worked out.

[whometense]

8. This whole thread just makes my heart ache,

and I was planning to just read and go away quietly.

But down deep I really agree with what you are saying here. Certainly the campaign made mistakes. There were a lot of things they could have done better. But I believe that the media was so heavily stacked against Kerry that there was precious little chance to get the real story out. The whole election coverage seemed to be he said/he said, and no content.

I think karynnj is right. We need to find a way to tell our story our way, either through the mainstream media, or in a series of workarounds. It really does seem like everything media is in a state of transition. The mainstream news anchors are on their way out. Blogs and online outlets are becoming more important, but it's not clear - at least to me - where that's going. Is cable news on the rise or on its way out? It may be that shows like Countdown are the wave of the future. Olbermann really is a hybrid of hard news and Daily Show sarcasm. Or maybe he's just found another niche. Maybe there will be no mainstream meadia - maybe it will be all niches.

In any case, someone more savvy than I am will be needed to sort this out and figure out how best to get the truth out there. For now, I'm happy to serve in the johnkerry.com family, as a liberal truthteller and lie exposer.

[ginnyinWI]

9. it was the media problem,

But I'll go further than that. I think the Democratic Party has been disorganized and weak, and that really hurt. With a strong party identity, the media would have had a harder time spinning all of our issues the wrong way. So that is what is needed most of all. In other words, we can handle the media when we are unified, strong and focused. It takes more than just money, it takes organization.

Secondly, the Dems, because they have been weak, have tried to rely on each candidate's personal story to make them win. While it's a good add-on, and we need to know that each candidate is qualified and talented enough to be the president, he/she should not have to define the whole party single-handedly. Again, a strong image of what Dems stand for is needed primarily. People should be attracted to the Democratic party's core values first, and the candidate second. The candidate shouldn't have to go around like a "voice crying in the wilderness". We need to answer the question, "What do Democrats stand for?" Without that, all people have to work with is the repubs' smearing and negative stereotypes.

So in my view, they ran a great campaign, and JK was a great candidate, won 59,000,000 votes, but had trouble with the media and with peoples' uncertainty about the Democratic Party and what it believes in. If he had had those, it would have been a landslide for sure.

[whometense]

10. Wow, great post Ginny!

You sure think clearly this early in the morning. ;-)

It was a continual frustration how little formalized backup Kerry got during the campaign, and he almost always seemed to be a "voice crying in the wilderness".

If all those dems were serious last night, that may well be about to change.

On a side point, I just heard on the radio that Gore is thinking of running again in 2008. I know how I feel about that bit of news, but I wonder about how others will respond.

[ginnyinWI]

11. yes I think it will change for the better.

I'm listening to Nancy Pelosi right now (cspan) talking about what Democrats stand for. If we do this constantly, we'll start winning again. We'll win even more Independents and Moderates than last time--there is going to be a huge gap for those people, once they disown the far right.

I thought Gore was through with public office? Hmm. The fact that he has been all but invisible will hurt. Meanwhile, JK will keep being very visible. It's too early to tell, but of the two, my money's on John!

[TayTay]

12. We need to go back to being 'The Party of the People'

And consistently make that point. That is what will bring West Virginia back into the fold. (I am obsessed with West Virginia.) I also want to make sure that the Dems embrace the West, but don't dismiss the Eastern regions of the country. We are united, not divided going forward.

[ginnyinWI]

18. the West is making some strong gains

according to an article I read in The Nation. They are electing a lot of Dems, so the next step should be that they turn blue for the next presidential. I like Dean's pledge to campaign in all 50 states--I think if they had known how much money they were going to get this time,they would have used that strategy this time.

[sandnsea]

22. What they miss

Dems that won in some of these western areas tend to run away from the national party and liberalism. My Congressman is DeFazio, about as liberal as they come. He runs on "As Independent As Oregon". He's strong on vets, social security, children. He voted yes on Healthy Forests because of our loggers. He doesn't talk about guns at all, even though he voted for AWB. Alot of these red state Dems don't run with a platform that would appeal to the true blue liberal.

That's why that "lone voice in the wilderness" is so true. I don't know how we're going to cross some of these gaps. But it is how our national candidate ends up alone. Not pure enough for the far left, too liberal for the center.

[ginnyinWI]

24. Democratic candidates need a party that they can run to,

not away from. That is exactly my point. They need a party that they can proudly stand up with, because our values are the values of most Americans. We just need to get that message out to the people.

Our image is outdated and our "brand" is unclear. Right now they run away from all the negative stereotypes. But all signs point to that being fixed soon.

[sandnsea]

25. Exactly

Agree completely. I am cautiously optimistic!

[karynnj]

14. Although I voted for Gore in 2000

and think he was robbed, I would really need to hear whst his message is in 2007 or so. I really really like Kerry better and think that especially if the country sours on the neo-con adgenda and the RW economic proposal, Kerry's life time opposition to corruption looks better. He really has a compelling life story. (Maybe we pay people to watch a video on it :) )

[sandnsea]

19. Conflicting agendas??

I remember reading a speech of Kerry's from 2001, not sure if it was before or after 9/11, seems like before. Anyway, he addressed the need for the Democratic Party to get stronger on defense. I know he's been concerned about WMD proliferation for years, rogue nations with WMD, etc.

So it seems to me we had Kerry wanting to run on a strong defense with his WHOLE record to back him up. And the Clintons and Shrums saying, "It's the economy stupid" and run away from anything liberal or remotely controversial. They must not have been listening to the rank and file, because I kept hearing we needed Kerry because the issue this year would be Iraq and terrorism. If we (as a party) wanted an economy candidate, we probably would have gone with Edwards.

So I think this conflict of what the campaign should focus on created the impression that Democrats don't know what we stand for. Especially when you throw in the anti-war, anti-globalization, left.

[TayTay]

20. Hmmm, tea leaves time

Maybe JK is as anxious to get rid of the consultants who sold him on not attacking * directly and told him not to play his best cards last fall because they didn't focus group as much Howard Dean is. Maybe this is JK's way of cleaning house and serving notice that any future run would not be like the last one.

It's a thought. He was kind of screwed over by timid consultants.

[sandnsea]

23. I think so

I think that's what he is referring to when he says "I'm going to learn".

I wonder. Can you run a campaign attacking Bush directly AND letting people get to know you better? See post #21. We missed on both those counts I guess. ???

Was it just a clear mistake on focusing so exclusively on kitchen table issues?

[karynnj]

13. "Liberal truthteller and lie exposer"

May be to some extent we all need to think of doing more of this. You, with a blog, are doing this on a large scale.

I wish I would have tried on a far more modest level. I knew there was a glaring difference between the stereotype John Kerry and the real John Kerry, but I admit that in my family (I'm one of 9 kids), the 5 of us who were the most consistently liberal were exchanging emails sending each other interesting things we saw about the campaign. One sister saw Teresa and John in Arizona, a brother saw Kerry at a fund raiser in Washington state. Both were very impressed.

But for some reason, none of this was sent to the other 4 or to our parents. Dumb, as they were the ones who may have been undecided. I think we were inhibited out of some sense that we shouldn't "proselytize". This in spite of my family being incredibly tolerant - My Catholic parents have accepted decisions by various kids to become Jewish, to become Protestant, to not marry-even after over 20 years together and kids, to be openly gay with 2 adopted kids - you think with all this a few tailored emails would have been a good idea. I wish I would have done it.
Oddly, my husband and I were comfortable writing a LTE that was printed a local Jewish newspaper. I know 15 of us voted for Kerry, 3 for *, but I don't know who 6 of them voted for.

One Bush voter based her vote on her minister's view that you need to vote for the moral candidate. (She was very confused when after telling me this, I said "Great, you voted for Kerry!) I just wish I would have had this conversation in Oct not in Dec. In Dec, when we talked she was very surprised that there was so much in Kerry's past to indicate that he is a genuinely decent person and was pushing an addenda much closer to her values.

For 2008, I definitely need to commit to being part of the grassroots and realize that it should start with communicating about the candidate with friends and family.

[whometense]

15. You make a good point.

My whole family is pretty consistently liberal, and I live in the bluest area of a blue state, but even so the people I talked to about the election surprised me.

I was doing the Kerry proselytizing way early, and it was amazing to me how few people even in MA knew much about their own senator. A lot of people I knew bought into the early Dean wave without doing a lot of thinking about it. In fact, the apparent randomness of how people choose who to vote for kinda freaked me out (and still does.) And has led me to think a lot about how to tell people the truth in the most effective way.

So in my circle my role was more frequently to raise peoples' enthusiasm for Kerry rather than convert * voters to him.

The blog is helpful (if people read it, of course ;-)). My early online activities were more centered around the early Kerry blog and online forum. In those days, it mostly served the purpose of keeping up supporters' spirits against the daily horrible news.

A little story - I think I've said this here before, so please forgive the repitition. Around November of 2003 I started to feel like I was living the movie "Groundhog Day". Every morning - and I mean EVERY morning - my clock radio awoke me with the line "latest NH poll puts John Kerry 30 points behind Howard Dean..." Except for the one memorable morning when the poll was a MASSACHUSETTS poll. Gack.

Well, sorry to ramble on so long. I guess I'm saying that there are a lot of different ways to contribute, all of them valuable.

[angrydemocrat]

21. It Is Amazing How Many People Didn't Know John

There were many that got to know him better as the campaign went along and many turned out to be like us and love the man and have great respect for him. But even many of them still didn't know a lot about him. And if people that supported him didn't know him as well as we thought then you have to wonder what did other people truly know? Had they know would many of them voted different? And I think the answer is a clear YES.

I don't by into all this moral issue thing. I don't feel that he lost due to all these people suddenly pouring out of the church pews and into the voting booth as right wingers expect you to believe. Because like the abortion issue it is a proven fact that there are more people in this country that don't want Roe vs Wade overturned. And that includes people who don't believe in abortion. You have many people in this country like myself that don't believe in it personally but they also realize you can't make others believe like you. And their are times that it could be a life and death situation. So they realize the importance in keeping abortion legal and safe.

Then on the gay marriage issue. They used that as a tool in this election and it was sickening all they said and did. But I will say a true christian does not judge others. They don't lie and pass out flyers saying if you support someone who doesn't judge others because they are gay or believe differently than you about abortion they will ban the bible. I mean get real. How can these people go around saying thet are christians fighting for moral values and christian values when they lie and pass judgment on others. I think they need to dust their bibles off and read them and learn before they go out preaching to others. But in states where Kerry won and this issue was on the ballot it was closer than what it should have been.

But even with the right wingers and all there preaching had people knew all there was to know about Kerry their tactics would have not worked. And it becomes more and more evident that people didn't know Kerry as well as many thought they did. I know that when I was posting all the articles for the biography thread people have posted that they didn't know certain things about him and wish they knew this imformation during the campaign. And again these are people who supported him. So if they didn't know then you have to wonder what people truly knew about him that voted against him.

[elshiva]

26. Great post sandnsea! 2 points that need work:

DNC 2004 tried to base his leadership on his Vietnam service. OK, but what about everything that he did afterward that proves his leadership even more.
1. Need to highlight how his VVAW work proved him to be truly patriotic and a natural leader. Can't let the "America-Love it or Leave it" crowd have their sway over this. Nothing good said about it at the DNC sadly.

2. Highlight the good decisions of his Senate career. Don't leave it to the "he's too liberal" haters. Again, show how helpful and patriotic it all is.