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TayTay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-24-07 09:07 PM
Original message
Another thing to think about. Not fun, but another thing.
I have been torn about whether or not Sen Kerry would run again for the Presidency since last March. I watched that forum from Harvard School of Politics that is still up at this link: http://ksgaccman.harvard.edu/iop/events_forum_video.asp?ID=2973

That appearance was probably the second most memorable Kerry appearance for me for last year, after the April speech on Dissent at Faneuil Hall. Max Cleland went to this forum that was a debut for a film that New England Cable News or NECN was doing on PTSD, called Hidden Wounds. I listened to Sen. Cleland speak and marvelled at his courage. I listened to Del Sandusky speak after the film and he broke my heart.

His PTSD came back. He said it had been years but it came back. Maybe it was the nastiness of the '04 campaign and the toll it took on him, but it came back and it hasn't left. Del talked about other guys from their days back in the VN war. They all have it. I can't even imagine what Sen. Kerry felt when he heard Sandusky talk about this, but I saw the good Senator at the farthest point from the podium and the more people who spoke about the horrors they were going through, the more Senator Kerry sort of moved backward. I saw his eyes at some points when others were talking. They were focused on something inside. I don't want to know what inner image drew that focus.

I think this is part of the reason why the good Senator isn't running for President. I think this fresh horror, this war in Iraq, bothers him on a level I can't even imagine. I was there for 8 speeches that the good Senator made in 2006. He was absolutely on fire when he spoke about Iraq. There was no one else who spoke more clearly or with as much conviction on this topic that I saw all year. I think it's because some of this is personal. (How could it not be?)

When people run for President, everyone they ever knew or are related to, also run for President. Even those guys who did so much and were smeared along with Sen. Kerry in 2004. Even them. Maybe, just maybe, they have been through enough. Maybe, when the race is so much harder this time and the nastiness is starting so much earlier, maybe the good Senator from Massachusetts also looked around and said that the prime thing he has to do is speak out, from his heart, about Iraq and how he feels. And maybe, though I of course don't know this to be true, just maybe, not do this again as a target. He was, after all, not the only target in '04.

I think Sen. Kerry is a very tough pol and someone who gets up and fights again. I have seen that. But, I have wondered ever since last March if he wants to take all those others with him again. I really do wonder.
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karendc Donating Member (231 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-24-07 09:12 PM
Response to Original message
1. This rings true
Tay, I think you are insightful.
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TayTay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-24-07 09:39 PM
Response to Reply #1
5. Karen, you can't be two people forever
I saw that last year too. I saw the pain in that speech in DC in June about that vote. That's real. I saw it.

There are real sacrifices needed to run for President. There are other sacrifices, maybe not compatible sacrifices, that need to be made to really stand up and oppose this war. They cannot coexist. It is not possible in American politics.

I think Sen. Kerry chose wisely. I think that he has the chance to contribute to ending an immoral and unjust war and to do so in a major way. There are very few people who get that chance. I think, in my own mind, that he knew he couldn't be both people. Sometimes the politician and the statesman don't coexist all that well at all.

I think Sen. Kerry chose well. He chose to 'give voice to his values' and to act to end something that is damaging the soul of this nation. No one, ever, can ask any more of him than that. That is the noblest thing possible in public service.

"My country right or wrong. When right, keep it right, when wrong, make it right." Today, My Senator acted decisively to start making it right with all his heart. I cannot but applaud that.
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Blaukraut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-24-07 09:18 PM
Response to Original message
2. If that is the case, and it may well be
It would hardly be surprising and out of character for a man as compassionate and caring as our Senator. Putting the needs of his friends, family, and country before his own proves once and for all what a fine president he would have been.
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Island Blue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-24-07 09:20 PM
Response to Original message
3. Thanks for this Tay.
That appearance at Harvard was incredible to watch. The love that he has for his "brothers" is so very evident. I think your theory just might be right.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-24-07 09:35 PM
Response to Original message
4. Excellent point! Thanks.
Edited on Wed Jan-24-07 09:49 PM by ProSense
This entire episode is an American tragedy. Take away the smear and the media pile-on and there is nothing there, nothing to point to John Kerry as anything but a great American hero and public servant who offered a glimmer of hope that we could avoid prolonging a really dark period in our history.
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Democrafty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-24-07 09:42 PM
Response to Original message
6. I'm watching him in the SFRC from this a.m.,
and I definitely see evidence of what you're talking about. He seems so upset and so agitated. It's such a contrast with the administration, and even with other Dems right now...
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whometense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-24-07 09:42 PM
Response to Original message
7. Been thinking about this all day
(obviously). The thing that keeps coming to the front of my mind is the story he told - twice - once in committee and once in his speech on the senate floor about the young man he and Chris Dodd spoke with in Iraq, and who was just killed last weekend.

I don't know, but I thought that could have been the tipping point for him - the one event that brought everything he was already thinking and feeling about the war into the sharpest possible focus.
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TayTay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-24-07 10:16 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. I think so too
That must have been just awful, finding out that this man had been killed and in that fashion. Sen. Kerry is a good and decent guy. I think this very well may have been the tipping point. There are things that weigh on your soul. I bet this was one of them.

Nice post Whome! So, you signing up to get sigs next year. We will need to put a very good name on the ballot again for the Senate. We can go out together.
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whometense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-24-07 11:30 PM
Response to Reply #8
11. Absolutely.
This changes nothing - I've still got his back in any way he needs my help.

I'd be proud to go out with you.
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Island Blue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-25-07 07:34 AM
Response to Reply #7
13. I thought about that too Whome.
Not to mention the other 25 soldiers who were killed on Saturday. I'm still trying to come to grips with this - didn't sleep very much at all last night, but in my heart I know that Senator Kerry is doing what he believes is right for the country (as he has been doing for the past 35+ year). This war must end, damnit.

You guys in Massachusetts are so very fortunate to be represented by this man. I know you all know that, but it ain't so good for the rest of us sometimes.
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-25-07 07:51 AM
Response to Reply #7
14. That had to be incredibly tough on both
Edited on Thu Jan-25-07 08:09 AM by karynnj
Kerry and Dodd. For Kerry, the fact this bright (you don't get into West Point otherwise) young man who sought them out to speak out to them against what they were doing had to hit home. Thirty seven or so years ago, that would have been someone like himself or Lt Droz, who also left behind a young baby.

I hadn't caught that Del S's PTSD came back after the election, because I just assumed he was speaking about when Kerry saved his life when he was suicidal earlier this decade. But, it is clear that he had a relapse since 2004 - his appearance and speech were quite different than in 2204. I rewatched parts of that last night.

You are right, that even with the SBVT charges debunked, they would be back. If Kerry ran, they would be shot down very very quickly and there is nothing there on any of these things. The problem as Tay Tay said is that the charges - even when quickly dispelled - end up also hitting these very vulnerable people. (They were there 100% for the Senator in 2004 and they were hurt because of it.)

I saw that when I replied to the Des Moines register article. In addition to the mischaracterization of Kerry's policy which several of us corrected, I responded to a freeper who repeated some of the tired litany - that Kerry was only in active duty 4 months (only 3 of which were in VN) , he requested PH and the Navy gave them to him , he didn't live in the US until college, he missed votes constantly for the 20 plus years in the Senate, he never went to hearings in the Senate. He still held out that Kerry hadn't released his records - because none of the bad stuff was in what he released. (so he clearly scrubbed it)(Someone had posted the Boston Globe link - but the freeper reejected that because they were just covering for him. The point is all these lies still exist in the swamps of the right.

The problem is that this idiot is not alone. The cognitive dissodance of a classy intellectual who refuses to talk down to people being a real action figure hero are two images his brain can't accept together. For some reason, they have a deep need to believe the lies and they will continue to repeat them. Kerry eluded to the fact that there was a price to this day of having told the truth in 1971 and knowing that to say what needs to be said in 2007 is not consistant with what you need to do to win 2008. (That was the point of mentioning VN - and Webb showed little grace in challanging the merits of the VN war - the point was telling the truth as he saw (or sees) it comes with a price - and as we saw later in the afternoon - one that he accepted because of a sense of duty.)

In 1971, Kerry answered Morey Safer's question on wanting to be President by saying that doing what needed to be done might make it hard to keep people happy enough. He knew the potential price then. It also says something that a 27 year old was asked seriously about wanting to be President. The sad thing is that with a healthy Democratic party he would have succeeded in spite of that.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-25-07 07:57 AM
Response to Reply #14
15. That's a really interesting point.
You are right, that even with the SBVT charges debunked, they would be back.


False charges completely debunked, but these soulless liars continue to repeat them. This would be background noise if not for the media's amplification. That is the worst part of this tragedy.
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whometense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-25-07 10:50 AM
Response to Reply #14
17. Beautiful. Again.
Anyone who knows anything true about Kerry knows how deeply he cares about the people who served with him, and by extension, knows the depth of his feelings for all service people, no matter their politics.

It still stuns me that people can say such cruel things without their having any basis in fact, and with a total disregard for the impact their words will have on real peoples' lives. I think it's going to be a long time before I ever tune in to a political talk show again. If there's any justice at all, there is a special hell reserved for the likes of Chris Matthews, Joe Klein, Howard Fineman, et al - people who damned well ought to know better, and yet can't be bothered to think about what they say before they say it.

And I'm not talking about Kerry's feelings, either. He's had to take more crap than any human should ever have to deal with, and he's responded by taken the high road every single time. But vulnerable people like Del Sandusky and Max Cleland - they haven't got the same bounceback mechanism JK has (who else does???)
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StoryTeller Donating Member (768 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-24-07 10:30 PM
Response to Original message
9. Wow. I think that's incredible insight, Tay.
You know--one of the things that has always struck me about Kerry is how very real a person he is. Maybe that sounds cliche or silly, but so many of our leaders are just faces on a TV screen to me. I don't live in an area that makes it easy to have access to these people. And it's been a real eye-opener to me to follow Kerry closely and even get glimpses of him as a person. It's easy to forget that the face on TV can have feelings, can have a life outside my TV box. Has friends and relatives, children, beautiful memories, and dark nightmares.

Really coming face-to-face with that truth has given me a much greater sense of compassion, not just for him, but for all our leaders. They're just so...human. It makes me want to do anything I can to help them and show them kindness. Okay, so it's a lot easier to feel that way about someone I trust and respect, like JK. But it challenges me to think twice before slamming on someone else. Someone who might be a parent like me, or may have faced personal tragedies I'll never know of. Whether or not I agree with them, it's a whole lot harder to judge them when they become more than a face in my TV.

It's just one more thing I have to thank John Kerry for. :)
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emulatorloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-24-07 10:35 PM
Response to Original message
10. thank you TayTay -- I appreciate that you posted this
I can't write now . . .but thank you.
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BlueIris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-25-07 05:40 AM
Response to Original message
12. I've been thinking about this ever since I realized that I've never
Edited on Thu Jan-25-07 05:42 AM by BlueIris
met a veteran who didn't have a smoldering case of PTSD, also known as CPTSD (complex post-traumatic stress disorder--for the vets, it's almost always this other, permanent kind). It hurts me especially to see the symptoms in some of Oregon's elected officials, particularly a couple of those really high up, who, like all those in similar positions right now, bear an unenviable burden being the heads of a state government during the dark days of Bush's war. They must feel so angry and so helpless, in every possible sense of those terms.
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ginnyinWI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-25-07 10:18 AM
Response to Original message
16. Running for president isn't easy.
Who better to know than someone who just did it. It's tough on your family and friends; it's like taking them into battle with you. I'm sure he added this into the equation.

Then he had to calculate the odds of pulling off a second nomination, knowing that some of the votes were ABB, and that some people wouldn't vote for him a second time simply because he hadn't won it the first time.

And last, he had to weigh the risk of losing his Senate seat, along with everything he could accomplish for the country as a Senator in the majority. Last time he was in the minority and not able to get much done anyway. I think Feingold decided not to run partly for the same reason.

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k j Donating Member (509 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-25-07 11:08 AM
Response to Original message
18. yes
extremely thoughtful, TayTay.
I admire your ability to process so quickly and yet so deeply. I'm still quite at a loss, even though I'd detached some months ago.
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TayTay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-25-07 11:15 AM
Response to Reply #18
19. I like these people. I feel for them.
Edited on Thu Jan-25-07 11:44 AM by TayTay
I saw Sen. Kerry with those guys from VN. He obviously cares for them deeply. I can't help but think that at some point he did wonder if it was worth it putting everyone through that again. I mean, that was so nasty and so mean.

The field is more crowded this time and might even wind up being much meaner than last time. I would think twice, thrice, four times before I put people I cared about through that again.

Gee, I saw it last year. I saw that split, the desire to run again because of all the good that could be done and the desire to really 'go for it' on Iraq and let the Bush Admin just have both barrels of criticism. Ahm, sadly, sometimes you cannot do both. That is American politics for ya, it is often a very cruel enterprise.

Sometimes dreams get deferred. This happens to all people. The good ones figure out how to develop new dreams, pour effort into that and make good things happen, despite disappointment. I think that will happen here. In fact, I know it will. These are good people.
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k j Donating Member (509 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-25-07 11:43 AM
Response to Reply #19
20. Dreams deferred...
is something I know all too much about. In fact, just yesterday morning my husband and I had another conversation about dreams we both agree we need to set aside. Just one more consequence of our time spent fighting the good fight in Rural Rural Red. So, for me this is an end of an era. What my husband and I have given up for all the years of fighting has come round to bite us bigtime. We've lost positions, healthcare, retirement money, and most importantly, dreams we'd pursued for many years. We gave it all up to speak truth to power and do our two bits for our country and if asked, we wouldn't change a thing. But there have been consequences and we're not as young as we used to be. *grin*

I like to think I saw Kerry's position in the field clearly and knew what he was up against, but somehow, I had hoped at least John Kerry could be able to take the banner (yes, for me and others, quite selfish of me), yet again. That somehow he would be exempt from the very real realities and decisions the rest of us face.

And that was nothing but magical thinking on my part, I admit. This hit me right where I live and yesterday I wasn't able to separate Kerry's decision with my decision.

Long story, but your post brought things into focus for me, TayTay, and I thank you for that. I want protection for the people I love and I love John and Teresa Kerry. I don't want them to hurt anymore than they have to in this life. They've been through enough. If John Kerry has chosen his field, I'm happy for him and Teresa. My mother used to tell me, "lead with your strength." John Kerry is exactly where he needs to be, where he chooses to be, and that's an inspiration. Quality is what matters. Quality equals integrity and doesn't need a grand stage. I've always believed that, this is just one more chance for me to live what I believe.

See TayTay, I wouldn't have come to this for who knows how long without your post. :-) Thanks again. (understatement.)

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TayTay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-25-07 11:49 AM
Response to Reply #20
21. You honor me.
Edited on Thu Jan-25-07 11:49 AM by TayTay
And I thank you for it.

I wish you all the best in going forward. I am also in a period of change. That is tough because what you thought was solid ground, can melt away from you. But it is also a time to cut away all that baggage that tends to build up in life. Cut it off, cart it away and start anew. I like that thought. It comforts me.

I agree with this statement: "They've been through enough." Enough of that, enough of the baggage from the past that everyone wanted to hang on them forever. Enough of that. Mourn it, note it's passing and move on. The incredible talents these people possess are really needed. Let the new things be born. Let these good people find other good things to do. I want that very much.
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k j Donating Member (509 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-25-07 12:14 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. Honor is a good medium...
I much prefer it to money or ego. ;-)

"Enough of that, enough of the baggage from the past that everyone wanted to hang on them forever." Oh gawd, yes, TayTay, even the hero baggage that I was more than willing to hang on him. Yes, as Marjorie said yesterday, let them be the Beacons the on the Hill. StoryTeller also had her loving perspective hat on yesterday.

Thank you for your good wishes and I extend them to you as well. Opportunities to shed skins and begin again certainly keep a person young and close to their core. A gift, really. And did you know, snakes are blind when they shed their skins? Not long very long, but blind for a bit. Maybe that sheds scales from their eyes, who knows?

John and Teresa wear their skin well. Okay, I'm on board. "Beacons on the Hill."
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