Odd Scarborogh show - a positive Kerry refererence

[karynnj]

Scarborough, very upset about the Iraqi civil war, was saying that there was no mission there for our men - Lawrence O'donnell was agreeing. Scarborough then said that he rarely called John Kerry prescient, but the comment that has been going through his head was the question Kerry asked in 1971 at the end of his testimony. "How do you ask a man to be the last man to die for a mistake?"

It was weird as he was very very emotion - and it sounded like this might be the first time he understood where Kerry was comin from. (I think I'll email the show that he should watch "Dissent" and see that Kerry got there in April.

[wisteria]

1. I heard him mention him also. I didn't think about e-mailing him,but

it might do some good to e-mail him about Kerry. it might even do some good to e-mail something to O'Donnell too.

[TayTay]

2. It's good that Scarborough is 'getting this' now

I wish he had 'gotten it' in April, but better late than never.

I have heard that phrase a lot lately. It is, tragically, very apt to what is going on in Iraq. It's beyond sad that this nation is in the position to have those words spoken again.

[karynnj]

6. I did email Scarborough

I doubt he reads his email and if he did I doubt it will make an impression. The points I made is that he should reconsider the bravery it took for a young well connected war hero to stand before the government and say those words - even at the possible expense of a future political career. Then I directed him to the Johnkerry web site"s multimedia page to the Dissent speech.

It's the situation in Iraq that puts things in perspective. Even the very worse characterization of Kerry's joke is like a drop of rain on the lives of soldiers living in a Katrina like hurricane that Kerry's 2004, 2005, or 2006 plan could have rectified.

It's strange that the 1971 Kerry is being referred to so often and I doubt a single viewer doesn't know what happened to that young vet. I've seen comments elsewhere disparaging as sentimental the loyalty of some baby boomers to Kerry as stemming from that time. For many people, the truth that Vietnam in 1971 was as hopeless (though less dangerous to the world as a whole) as Iraq was distorted by a resurgence of the idea that Vietnam was winnable.

The question is whether all the abuse Kerry took in the media when he spoke out in April and throughout fighting for Kerry/Feingold will actually lead to people knowing he was the leading voice in goverment making this call. The double view of Kerry speaking of war gone wrong makes my head spin.

Also hearing Kerry's perfectly formulated question that takes war to its very heart - the individual soldier who might die is in stark contrast to all other political speech. Last summer, it was Kerry and a few others who placed the lives of soldiers over the political calendar unlike the centrist triangulators. Those 2 views, 35 years apart, are the real story of supporting the troops.

[JI7]

3. Lawrence O'Donnell has been using it a lot lately

note that O'Donnell is a big fan of John Kerry. i think having O'Donnell as commentator helps because it means there is at least one guy who would either defend Kerry or his ideas.

what you say about Scarborough shows it might be having some positive effect.

[ProSense]

4. George Will can admit it (no skin off his back), but

how can the rest of them admit Kerry was right? Look at the mealy mouthed call for withdrawal Joe Klein issued. They've all invested so much in trying to marginalize Kerry and his position on Iraq, even going so far as to denounce his characterization of the country as being in a civil war. The Democrats who procrastinated can't admit it, that would give Kerry an edge. The Republicans can't admit it, that would give Kerry and the Democrats an edge. The media, well, they've been shamed into responding with ridiculous and silly headlines. Today, the American Legion is demanding Rangel apologize for insulting the troops. It's not the kind of thing that the media pays attention to, but this is: Kerry botched joke, can he recover!

Silly season.

Well, NBC now admits Iraq is in a civil war. Except that the reporters on the ground are saying the situation is now anarchy, moving from 6,000 plus deaths in May and June to more than 7,500 in September and October. The WH's official line that 30,000-40,000 Iraqis have been killed was dashed by a new report that 150,000 have been killed, that they know of. The Lancet Study's 650,000 is probably more accurate.

[wisteria]

5. What, the American legion is at it again? Republican mouthpiece- they are.

How come no major media outrage at Rangel, why no Hillary backstabbing? Amazing. What I did hear today was Rangel's comment referred to as kerriesque. Funny huh?
Very few will admit that Kerry has been right about this all along. We are going to have to press this point and back it up with the facts. We need to insist that the media play up these facts and demand a reason when they don't.

[beachmom]

8. Where's that quote of Rangel making fun of Kerry?

Geez louise, this guy can't seem to shut up, can he? Um . . . there are real live career soldiers who are well educated (at least in their field) who WANT to go to Iraq. I know, it sounds crazy but these people exist. This is their job, and although they may or may not support the government policies, that's not really the point. This is what they DO. They don't want to be a sucker and work a boring civilian job. They WANT the excitement that military life brings, and that includes fighting in wars or doing special missions. Think I'm crazy? Well, I know of one such person. He re-enlisted and is now learning Arabic. He knows exactly what he's doing and he is EXACTLY where he wants to be.

I think Kerry gets this, by the way. That's why when I first heard his "stuck in Iraq" quote, I winced. Without getting all the facts, I was like, "hey, this is not Vietnam. We don't have a draft anymore". Once I found out it was a botched Bush joke, I was relieved. Because Kerry has never said that the soldiers don't want to be there. What he's said is that politicians must put together the best possible POLICY so we don't endanger our troops needlessly. No doubt Kerry knows how unbelieveably professional our armed services are -- none of them are "stuck" -- it's our POLICY that's stuck.

[wisteria]

9. Are you referring to the Fox interview?

Rangel was on there commenting about sending Kerry out of town until after the elections, when we were at the height of the botched joke frenzied.
If you are referring to my comment about Rangel's recent comments about our troops, that was taken from a local Clear Channel radio program in my area, called Quinn in the Morning. He referred to Rangel's comments as Kerriesque.

[beachmom]

11. The first one, thanks. I just couldn't stand the piling on, and it looks

like Rangel is the first one to have Karma coming at him at full speed. Not one, but two gaffes in less than a month. I think he should get to work in the House; we're not going to have a draft and I'm tiring of that conversation.

[TayTay]

13. American Legion calls on Rangel to apologize

Perhaps he now knows what it feels like to unfairly be in the rifle scope of those folks:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=2989831&mesg_id=2989831

Rep Charlie Rangel on CNN's The Situation Room with Wolf Blitzer 10/31/2006

BLITZER: All right, the president of the United States, as advertised, going after Senator John Kerry for comments he made yesterday. John Kerry insisting he botched a joke about the president and his policies on Iraq. And the president like John McCain, like Tony Snow earlier at the White House, saying that John Kerry owes the men and women of the U.S. military an apology.

Charlie Rangel, you served with distinction in the U.S. military during the Korean War. What do you say about this latest uproar that's now taking place only a week before the election involving Senator Kerry's comments?

RANGEL: It's an uproar only because the administration can't find anything substantiative to defend the disaster that they created in Iraq. Senator Kerry is a decorated war hero and those of us who have served have nothing but respect for those people, those brave men and women that are in Iraq. The only thing they are trying to do is to look for an issue to bail them out of the falling polls that surround the Republican Party.

BLITZER: All of the polls show Congressman Cantor, that this issue of Iraq is badly hurting Republicans across the country. Americans are not happy with the way this war is unfolding right now. And I want you to respond to that charge that the White House now trying to simply go ahead and score some political points, knowing that the focus on Iraq is hurting Republican candidates.

CANTOR: You know, Wolf, I couldn't disagree with my friend Charlie any more. I think that Senator Kerry's statements were a new low. You know, unfortunately there really isn't any vision coming out of the Democratic Party as far as Iraq. There is a uni-dimensional strategy that is withdraw now. And that in fact would end up giving Iraq to the terrorists. And we cannot allow that oil-rich state to become a terrorist state.

But I think that if you listen to Senator Kerry's statement, it is not only an attack on our troops' patriotism, but it is their intelligence. I mean come on, there are thousands if not more of Americans that have benefited from the GI bill having served our country that have gone on to higher education and developed careers in this country. Senator Kerry owes our troops an apology.

BLITZER: All right. We are almost out of time. Congressman Rangel, I'll give you the last word. Go ahead.

[MBS]

7. good idea to email him

. .. I think he's in the mode to listen. More and more, I'm getting the feeling that MSNBC/NBC is generally waking up. Olberman's been great for months now (though I do wish he'd lay off the OReilly shtick: I don't like him either, but enough already. . ), it continues to seem to me that Matthews really respects Kerry (even when Matthews tries to hide it with his blather), and , as I watch Scarborough more (usually the first bits, when I forget to turn off the TV after Olberman), he seems to me , despite his class-of-1994 Republican roots (or maybe because of the True Believer aspect of those roots) more and more obviously disgusted with Bushco and the shameless corruption associated with Bush and the late unlmamented Republican congress; and he actually has been saying some things lately that I can actually agree with (see karynnj's comment), and are, to me, signs he's actually been thinking outside the Republican box. Then there's NBC finally calling Iraq a civil war and MSNBC repeating that over and over yesterday. . .

Do I sense an emerging consensus,t within this network, that might actually lead a good direction? that might reward responsible reporting? or actual investigative journalism? I can always dream. .

[karynnj]

10. Here's what I emailed

I was surprised to hear you very emotionally reference John Kerry's famous question from his 1971 Senate testimony. For many people, the truth that Vietnam in 1971 was as hopeless (though less dangerous to the world as a whole) as Iraq was distorted by a resurgence of the idea that Vietnam could have been won. This view that America could have won if popular support had remained behind the Vietnam War has been used against Senator Kerry for decades.

Senator Kerry's perfectly formulated 1971 question which takes war to its very heart - the individual soldier who might die - was in stark contrast to all other political speech I have heard. Kerry went on to say that every day someone had to lose his life because politicians were unwilling to admit what the whole world already knew. In recent years, Robert MacNamara in "Fog of War" admits that he knew the war couldn't be won as early as 1968. Senator Kerry has said in speeches in and out of the Senate that half the men whose names are on the Vietnam War Wall died after that time.

It seems that at this point you and many other commentators have reached the point Senator Kerry reached in April of this year, when he spoke out against allowing soldiers to die rather than admitting the policy in Iraq was wrong. You might want to see a video of a speech he gave in Boston on April 22, 2006 - the 35th anniversary of his Senate testimony. It is on his web site, johnkerry.com, under multimedia - the speech is called "Dissent".

Last summer, it was Senator Kerry and a few others who placed the lives of soldiers over the political calendar unlike the centrist triangulators. The Republicans were following Bush in a lock step formation on Iraq. The Centrists in the Democratic party clearly did not want Iraq debated in the Senate. I am fully convinced having been at the Boston speech on April 22, 2006, that Senator Kerry in proposing his Kerry/Feingold amendment was one of the few politicians motivated by the seriousness of the situation and the lives of the soldiers rather than politics. He knew the result of speaking the truth in 1971. He knew that Americans prefer to follow those who deceive them saying that we can win rather than honor those who admit that we can't. Those 2 views, 35 years apart, are the real story of supporting the troops. No fumbled joke, though it hurts politically, can take that away.

A few weeks ago, you among others spent a huge amount of time making a mountain out of a mole hill when you treated Senator Kerry's botched joke as an important event. The man left out a pronoun "us" in a joke written for him. For political points, you gave this more weight than you have all of Senator Kerry's serious proposals on Iraq (notably Kerry/Feingold and "the path forward" explained at Georgetown University in October 2005) and all his work in support of veterans rights and benefits. As a former Congressman, I assume you can look things up in the Congressional Record better than I can. An uncharacteristically soft spoken Senator Kerry I saw on CSPAN begging Republican Senators to accept a provision that would allow widows to remain in military housing for a longer time after the death of their spouse because it would make a traumatic time more manageable characterizes to me someone who genuinely cares for the troops as people. Not all the people, of either party, who use the troops as props. Senator Kerry was and is a far better person than most of those who have disparged him for decades. He is the rare politician who is honest and not corrupt.

Sincerely,
(ME)

[beachmom]

12. Wonderful letter, Karynnj. Love it. n/t

[dwahzon]

14. Karyn

thank you for sharing this and for agreeing to let us use it. Go check out the JK blog.

Nicely done.

[karynnj]

15. All I can say is I'm flattered that they liked it.

especially as I doubt Scarbourough will read it.

[wisteria]

17. If he doesn't perhaps your letter can awaken someone else who

has been in the dark to long.

[wisteria]

16. Very well written. n/t