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OT: Webb article from 1980 -- for draft, thinks volunteer army is "unmitigated disaster"

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beachmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-21-06 10:35 PM
Original message
OT: Webb article from 1980 -- for draft, thinks volunteer army is "unmitigated disaster"
Edited on Tue Nov-21-06 10:38 PM by beachmom
No wonder Webb held his tongue with the Kerry botched joke kerfuffle. Because check out this old article:

http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/198004/webb-draft/2

He was a bit of an ass in this time period (we all know this), but read a few paragraphs here:

The volunteer Army is an unmitigated disaster. Those who discovered, after fifteen years of calculated silence, that the Vietnam draft fell disproportionately on the poor and minorities, now remain mute before the hard evidence that the cure is infinitely worse than the disease. If present enlistment trends continue, the Army will be 42 percent black by the early 1980s. White enlistees have less education than black, evidence of their socioeconomic status. More than 60 percent of enlistees are from the bottom two categories of intelligence testing. It is so hard to re-enlist a soldier that the Army is now permitting those who fail their skills qualification test to re-up, thus assuring the youth of America that, if mobilization should occur, their NCO's will be unqualified to train them, much less to function themselves. This situation is getting worse every year: in 1979, the intelligence levels of recruits and those re-enlisting were the worst since the volunteer Army began.

snip

Reinstituting the draft would help in yet another, more elemental and equitable way. We created a military, just as we created a society, for ideological rather than mercenary reasons. Detractors of the draft who claim that our natural state, through history, has been draft-free fail to recognize that our position in the world until well into this century was less than preeminent. Nor do they recognize the post-World War H strategic realities. It is fundamentally wrong-and cowardly-in a democratic society to claim that those who stand between us and a potential enemy should be risking their lives merely because they are "following the marketplace," and the military is their "best deal." The result of such logic is today's volunteer Army, a collection of men and women who have been economically conscripted to do society's dirty work, as surely as if there were the most inequitable draft imaginable.

snip

But our greatest need is to get beyond those old jealousies from Vietnam, to make our military once again a fighting force rather than a social lab, and to stop being afraid to ask the men of Harvard to stand alongside the men of Harlem, same uniform, same obligations, same country.


Okay, a couple things:

1. Thank GOD the Allen people didn't find this and do a double pronged attack against Webb and Kerry.

2. Um -- kinda looks like Webb called the volunteer army uneducated, and he meant it.

3. I think that Kerry's position from 1972 and Webb's position in 1980 were very similar -- the fear of a mercenary army.

4. Within Webb's chip on his shoulder about Vietnam tone, you do hear him state what most liberals think -- that it's utter bullshit that the priviledged and the elite don't fight for our country while the working class do. That was in there in 1980, so his stance today about economic fairness is not so big a leap.




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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-21-06 10:57 PM
Response to Original message
1. I don't know much about Webb, but this was elightening, so thanks.
He's brutally honest here, and I really like that.
I imagine Allen knew about this quote; maybe he was worried about the response it would get?
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beachmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-21-06 11:10 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. After the Allen campaign used sexually explicit excerpts of Webb's novels
seems to me that nothing was off the table. Webb wrote SO MANY articles -- the Allen campaign focused on his women in combat opinions (which is in the article -- pretty degrading stuff IMO), but I just think that the Kerry joke thing happened and they didn't have enough time to figure this out and launch an attack on Webb. Also, since Jimmy Webb is in the Marines, it would only get them so far. Think about it -- if Kerry had a child in the armed forces, everybody would have known immediately what we knew -- that this was a botched joke. I suppose same goes with Webb -- they figure he's changed his mind since 1980 since his son is in the Marines.

Still, I found this fascinating and is, shall we say, Exhibit A to how Kerry is treated so badly for something he DIDN'T say, while others can say it and MEAN IT, and get away with it.

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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-21-06 11:24 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. Yes, I heard about Allen trying to capitalize on Webb's novels.
The same ones that have won awards and are on the reading lists of the Marines, or some military arm?
Dumb.
I think this quote from Webb having to do with volunteer vs. draft vs. rich vs. poor was a can of worms Allen didn't want to address, especially because he had/has no experience to counter anything Webb said.
Now SEX! sells, but not so much where Allen was concerned. Another dumb move; Allen is too stupid to be really dangerous, and he was planning on running for prez?
As for Kerry's botched joke, he has never said anything to disrespect the troops and he's been front and center since 2005 in a variety of venues. The people who chose to report otherwise and demean him have an agenda (comandeered by their corporate masters). I think Kerry is a threat to the rethugs and that warms my heart, but makes me worry about him also.
I hope he runs, but I wouldn't blame him if he doesn't. But I think he might?!
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-21-06 11:03 PM
Response to Original message
2. The draft is a nice theory, but it doesn't work out that way.
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beachmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-21-06 11:14 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. Well, but it's all volunteer now. I think he was saying in the article
that the draft should be administered EQUALLY (of course, you know the super rich will find a way to get out of it).

Of course, as long as other people will do it volunteerily, I am opposed to a draft (hey -- I have a 12 year old nephew). But, mostly, I'm opposed to presidents lying our country into war and then botching the execution of it, thereby making the war a disaster for which the troops pay the ultimate price.
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fedupinBushcountry Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-22-06 12:14 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. You and me both
Would this draft also include women Because if that is the case I have 2 sons and a daughter who are all in the age category. Now of the 3, 2 would be college grads and my other son has 2 years of college.

My husband joined the Navy because of the draft, if he had to go he wanted the right to pick his service. My husband does not want any of our kids in the military under this administration.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-22-06 01:46 AM
Response to Original message
7. More on 'mercernary military'
“Thirty years of the All-Volunteer Force have given the President a mercenary military unrepresentative of the nation it serves. These kids in uniform aren’t our kids, so those close to us can dodge the risks of military service as we blithely accept the war’s cost in young lives shattered. What happened to the citizen-soldier, to John Kennedy’s ‘pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship’? The (all-volunteer force) killed all this.”

”…Give the chief executive his own army, and by golly, he’ll use it. Well, we did, and he has, starting a war of choice in the Middle East and bogging us down for a dangerous future we could have avoided if he’d had to ask the American people to raise an army, the Constitution’s splendid phrase.”

http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/news/columnists.nsf/militarymatters/story/B00BDC2C6539266C8625721C0015F409?OpenDocument

Wrote this on the 4th, there's some other links and whatnot about whether we are 'raising an army' within the context of the Constitution, and whether if we had to, we would be willing to 'bear the burden' for this war.

http://www.lightupthedarkness.org/blog/?p=51

I think Webb is going to be a very interesting Senator.
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beachmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-23-06 02:47 PM
Response to Original message
8. This article was not available online until this week
So it's possible the Allen opposition researchers never found it. Which was a good thing:

http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200611u/fallows-webb
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dwahzon Donating Member (338 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-24-06 12:22 AM
Response to Original message
9. I'm not sure what the point is
in digging up Webb's position from 1980 or whenever but I do recall seeing someone doing a summary on his current position versus this speech in 1980 and he made it very clear that his thinking has changed on this point.

And he had a solid explanation for the change in viewpoint. If I run across the explanation I'll post it.

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