Help! Kos bashing Wade and Kerry on front page

[beachmom]

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2006/10/24/13546/986

[demdiva]

1. I'm there!

[demdiva]

8. here it is

http://www.dailykos.com/comments/2006/10/24/13546/986/222#222
Rec me, and comment!!!!!!!!!!

[rox63]

2. Kick!

Pile on, everyone... :kick:

[TayTay]

3. What a jerk

Picking and choosing which points he thinks apply to him and disrregarding the rest.

What an unprincipled arsehole.

[Mass]

4. Interesting how most people are disagreeing with kos on this

one.

Interestingly, the netroot campaign was a flop and the only way kos has found some justification to his attacks against Kerry was to link it to Chris Bowers, who never called on Kerry to give money!

[ProSense]

5. Kos shows himself

over and over to be an ass of the highest order! I'm convinced that he believes stirring up the negativity will create the perception of more discontent than there is, and it is all based on cowardly campaigning.

[paulk]

6. "we have long memories"

Now Kos is using the imperial "we"?

What an asshat.

[demdiva]

7. he is ...btw i like that word ...asshat

[WildEyedLiberal]

9. Typical sandbox tyrant

His Reagan Republican roots are showing.

The only people agreeing with him are the vicious mindless bots who are eagerly repeating every Rove joke about Kerry they can think of, including ketchup, windsurfing, and hunting gear jokes.

He is clearly striving to create a left-wing Free Republic.

[beachmom]

10. Okay, I just need to say it

TeresainPA is a BITCH of the highest order!!!! Poor Al Gore having a supporter like her. A couple of us trollrated her because she was downright abusive of our very own Karynnj, who is always so civilized and gracious.

Markos is really slimy -- does he think he can get away with this on his site?

[WildEyedLiberal]

12. I think Al Gore would be horrified to learn of the shrill, nasty "supporters" he has

The unfortunate thing for Al is they are making him that much less attractive to people who are sick of the lies, smears, swiftboating, and mudslinging. I don't hold it against Gore but their bludgeoning asshole tactics certainly don't do him any favors.

[wisteria]

13. TeresainPA is awful.

Anyone who could get that rabid while supporting Gore is in serious need of anger management. If I were Gore, I would keep her a safe distance away from his campaign.

[karynnj]

37. She is obnoxious - unlike the real Teresa from PA

[karynnj]

33. I didn't see it - I'll go look

I did see someone challange my math - but DKos seems to be having trouble. Apparently only DIRECT contributions count - which is a pretty dumb rule. (If Kerry spent 3 million for travel and to get contributions of $11 + $5 (2005) million - it counts.

[wisteria]

11. I posted. What a dishonest jerk.

I wonder if Kos got some inside info as to how well Kerry is doing and how much more promising a run in 08 might be?

[rox63]

14. Now Ezra Klein is at it...

Egads: http://www.prospect.org/weblog/2006/10/post_1740.html#014105

[WildEyedLiberal]

15. They ALL want to take Kerry out

It's no surprise the jackals are jumping all over this. I'm starting to get worried. These people will do an say anything to get Kerry out of the way and they have plenty of sleazy allies to help them.

This "scandal" is nothing but a bogus lie.

[rox63]

16. And Atrios is linking to it as well

http://atrios.blogspot.com/2006_10_22_atrios_archive.html#116170519141966004

[WildEyedLiberal]

17. These pieces of shit

I swear to God they are embittering me to any candidate or cause they claim to support. I'd no more vote for whoever they decide to pimp than I would Bush.

[blm]

21. Careful - Atrios didn't comment. Kos is pushing a LIE of his own creation

and those of you who post there need to demand an answer WHY Kos is pretending that Wade is talking about Bowers instead of HeyJohn? And why would he even WAT to create that impression which is essentially a lie.

[Mass]

23. Ezra Klein started it by publishing the comment w/o any reference to

heyjohn.com.

kos referenced Ezra Klein. Of course, he could have checked, but kos has never seen an anti-Kerry smear he did not like.

[politicasista]

54. Exactly

The people that are promoting other canididates are making me not want to support them now, which is sad.

I too agree that they are doing everything they can to take him out. Hope the Kerry team is right on top of this. This is ugly and sick, sick, sick. :-(

[blm]

19. Why are they pretending Wade is talking about Bowers and NOT HeyJohn who IS anonymous?

ANONYMOUS?

Has anyone asked why they are claiming that?

Isn't that the tactic Rush used when Clinton attacked far right hate radio after Oklahoma bombing and Rush claimed Clinton was talking about him?

[Mass]

18. This is also sloppy NYTimes reporting.

David Wade comment has been reported again and again in proper context without causing any criticism. The idiots behind this article placed it out of context.

I am not really surprised by the reaction, whether hypocritical or sincere, depending of the people. But I wonder if they are going to make things clear. Chris Bowers was not even asking Kerry for money, so there is no way this comment was meant for him.

[blm]

20. JUST ASK Kos - WHY are you pretending Wade is talking about Bowers instead

of who he is really talking to - HeyJohn website?

Can you please answer that SIMPLE QUESTION, Kos?

[ProSense]

22. Look at the lame

update he just posted:

Update: In the comments, people defend Wade for saying that he was referencing the HeyJohn.org website (which appears to be down at this moment), not Bowers. Problem is, the HeyJohn website is based on Bowers' efforts to get safe Democrats to ante up this year. This campaign isn't being waged by HeyJohn, it's a blogosphere-wide effort led by Bowers.

Wade's insinuation is that only anonymous cowards who aren't "real netroots activists" are pushing this. Yet there is Chris Bowers, very public, leading on this issue. Hence, the insult.

[ProSense]

24. Someone just called

him out on it!

http://www.dailykos.com/comments/2006/10/24/13546/986/621#c621

[blm]

27. POUND ON KOS FOR AN ANSWER - WHY the DISTORTION? Does he think you all

are THAT STUPID that you can't comprehend calendar days?

[fedupinBushcountry]

25. What a fucking little

weasel, prick slimy asshole piece of shit.

My God he just proved how fucking clueless he is. I cannot stand him, never have, never will.

JK sent an e-mail out today and if this by anyway hampers efforts to get what is needed for these candidates I hope Kos rots in hell. Fucking swift boater.

This has also brought some over to the Kerry blog, little bastard.

[Firespirit]

35. Ugh, didn't even think of that

The people in today's email are key... IMO they are the four that will determine whether we get the senate.

Fuck Kos.

[beachmom]

36. Most people on the e-mail list, don't blog though, right?

I have met plenty of Dems who never read blogs. Hopefully, most of the people who would donate aren't big blog readers and will miss this whole ugly tale.

Maybe I can donate more to Webb. Damnit, he needs to win here!!

[_dynamicdems]

43. Don't ya just want to slap the shit out of the little bastard?

Bet I could kick his ass too.

:grr:

[blm]

26. BALONEY, Kos. Wade was SPECIFICALLY referring to HeyJohn in his comments - and not to the overall

effort of Bowers.

So. unless Bowers IS HeyJohn, then Kos is FULLOFSHIT!

[beachmom]

31. I put your question in, but the thread is over 700 comments long now

This has been a shitty day. I still feel like within the commenters, we won the day, but we cannot deny the viral ugliness of this lie being spread across all the liberal blogs. Who benefits? Hillary, of course.

[blm]

34. Has anyone started a counter thread that contains ONLY FACTS?

And how Kos just lied again by saying it's Bowers' campaign HeyJohn was referring to when HeyJohn started up the day BEFORE Bowers' efforts?

[blm]

28. A poster said Gore gave his cash back to party. He did it in 2004, not 2002

and Kerry gave most of his immediately to Dean and to retire the debt of the DSCC. in 2005. BIG difference.

[Mass]

29. Apparently , he gave half of his money back in 2002.

That is at least what somebody claimed a few days ago.

This however would mean he had 12 M left after the election, so the question would still be why he had that much.

[fedupinBushcountry]

30. The thing is

that Gore wasn't even able to give that cash any sooner then 2004 because of how long it takes to go through all the accounting processes of a presidential campaign finance laws.

There is an article about that out there somewhere, wish I had bokmarked it.

[Mass]

32. And Kerry explains in the interview for BMG that TayTay posted

that he has the same obligation!

[wisteria]

38. wrong post.

[whometense]

39. Mark at

The Premise has a post on today's action: http://thepremise.com/archives/10/24/2006/470

It's a good one.

[Mass]

40. My only complaint with Mark;'s diary.

He is mixing Chris Bowers's actions (that were not directed at one person, but at all representatives asking them to do something so that more races become competitive) with kos's actions that are simply a vendetta against Kerry.

Those are two different issues, and it is too bad to mix what is really a good effort to do something with a fight against somebody because you do not like him!

[beachmom]

41. That was a great post. I think I'm going to bookmark that site.

It's already had some good posts, and they're very well thought out.

Hey -- what happened to that site which called Kos and his ilk the greenie weenie Deanies? I forgot what it was called; I think he wasn't posting much, and so I removed my bookmark. Now I'm wondering what he's saying.

[JI7]

42. rotten piece of right wing shit

the motherfucker must be angry Warner dropped out and wont be paying him anymore or throwing parties for him and his circle of jerkoff supporters.

[beachmom]

45. You know, that's another reason to be happy for Warner that he

decided not to run. His main cheerleader would have been Kos, a recipe for disaster. Maybe I'm biased because I'm in Virginia, but I think Warner is a decent guy, and certainly wouldn't have deserved such slimebags to work for him.

I also got something wrong -- I didn't necessarily think Markos was going to support Warner for prez, but based on his behavior since Warner's withdrawal, obviously he was.

Another thing that hurts is how Kos has dropped Lamont -- he'll still bash Lieberman here and there, and talk about polls, but I just don't see him working his ass off for the guy he trumpeted nonstop during the primary. That just feels wrong. Meanwhile, it is John Kerry who is going to Conn. tomorrow to do the real kind of work campaigning involves. Last I looked the polls weren't great; still it is borderline immoral for Kos to just abandon Lamont the way he has. He was part of the reason Lamont got traction. You know unlike other jobs, politics really are personal. So Markos's behavior on a professional level showed a callousness I just do not like -- just think about "the incident" again and let it sink in: Private soldiers far from home are brutally murdered, burned, and hung from a bridge -- Kos's response is to say "screw them" since they were there for profit. Seems like there is a pattern to this guy, and it's not nice. Screw Lamont. Screw Kerry. Screw Wade. Screw Buffy. Screw the Crocodile Hunter. Screw them. And so on and so on and so on.

Oh, and did I mention that not a week ago I blogged locally to defend the dailykos site from attacks from the Allen campaign because Kossacks had donated to Webb's campaign through their site? It was this stupid press release that went on and on about the screw them incident. So I did a post that explained that it was a community site, and it was ordinary people, not Markos's lousy $250, that brought in the lion's share of donations to Webb. I guess I'll stand by my defense since it was implicitly defending Webb (and boy did the RW trolls come out that night), but in general, I will NEVER be caught dead defending Kos again. Ever.

[JI7]

47. i agree about Warner, he is a good guy

the problem with his support for Warner was that it was based on Warner giving him attention and money. it had nothing to do with the issues or liking the man himself. he will wait to see who else will pay him before moving on. i think he blames Kerry for Warner dropping out also. he hates it that Kerry is still out there considering whether to run again while Warner has given up.

the lack of support for Lamont by those who made the primary a big thing is disgusting as well. most of the posts are all about how horrible Lieberman is. yeah, we know Lieberman sucks, kisses right wing ass and woudn't be surprised if he went as far as to caucus withthe Republicans. but how does that support LAMONT . after a while the Lieberman complaints are repetitous. people already know why he lost the primary . you wont change people's minds by repeating how horrible lieberman is. but you might get them to support Lamont if you start campaigning FOR LAMONT. give reasons why people should vote for him.

but many of these people have given up on the race. they discuss it with the assumption that Lieberman will win.

[karynnj]

66. That may be the root problem with Kos

His most significant emotions are anger and hatred. So, in 2004, more than anything else - even a Deaniac - he was the ultimate ABB. Now he is an ABL, where L is Lieberman. When he should be trying to build up who Lamont is and advocating for him - he is content to slam Lieberman. That he dropped Lamont when it seemed he was not a winner is predictable - he was failing on the only think Kos cared about - defeating Lieberman.

I can see from this why Kos would never either understand or appreciate Senator Kerry. Where the Senator is ethical and moral and acts accordingly - Kos has no concept of either. It was immoral to treat "the incident" the way he did - these were real people. In his role, ethics would mean disclosing any conflicts of interest, aka payments from Dean - he failed.

[whometense]

63. Hey beachmom,

did you see the TNR article Ryan Lizza wrote about Warner's thinking?

Very interesting: http://www.tnr.com/doc.mhtml?i=20061030&s=lizza103006

It made me think a little better of him as a person (though I still think he's underqualified to be president.)

[beachmom]

64. Thanks, but I don't have a subscription, so it won't let me read it

As I think I've told you guys before, Mark grew up in part in the town in Conn. I grew up in. And only good things have been said about him. He was a good kid, who worked hard, and was the first to go to college in his family.

I don't think he had a chance to get the presidency this time, but there are two great options for him here in Virginia:

governership in '09
senator in '08 if John Warner retires


I would be very pleased if he went for either. Despite some of his business tendencies, he did seem to have the little guy at heart with his policiees in the governorship, and I look forward to him serving our state once again.

[_dynamicdems]

44. He's the person behind HeyJohn.

It makes sense. The publicity was right there from the onset. Somebody promoted it and we know that KOS has certain connections in that area.

[beachmom]

46. Heh -- well then his post WASN'T a lie

Wade WAS calling him a coward. Wouldn't THAT be the irony.

Call me naive and wet behind the ears, but do the Clintons play this dirty? I don't know the details from '92, so I haven't a clue. I was so used to them being attacked by the Right, that I never focused on their own agressive tactics, so seriously, I don't know.

And, really, we don't know if they have anything to do with this -- they were very open about attacking Kerry for not "fighting back" like Bill did (5 years too late, but that's another story). Not sure if they would do this under the radar dirty trick.

[wisteria]

48. Put nothing past the Clinton's. They want to hold onto power even

more than the Republicans.

[JI7]

49. it's unlikely Clintons had anything to do with this

especially since Hillary is a huge example of someone that can be brought up on this issue to go after instead of Kerry.

also, they are pretty open with their attacks. i just can't see them going this way. it's just not how they work.

and Rahm Emmanuel is their guy and he has actually defended Kerry on this.

i think it's some Mark Crispin Miller type probably. or someone else who is not a real Democrat and just pisses on the party and Kerry especially.

i can't see any established party members having to do with this.

Wyldwolf said he has an idea of who is behind it in the other thread. i think he said it's someone like Kos .

[wisteria]

55. I'll keep in mind what you have suggested, but I still can see

Clinton operatives doing this. A claim of not supporting candidates and hording money, suggested of Kerry, would not affect Senator Clinton's popularity on the blogs as it might Kerry's.

Still, the Clinton's play to win, and they certainly enjoy the power their hold on our party provides them.

Are you suggesting Kos is attempting to bring Kerry down by himself?

[JI7]

56. Kos isn't a fan of Hillary, i can't see a connection there

also the Clinton's attacks on Kerry is from a different perspective. they can't get much out of this type of attack .

their attacks on Kerry seem more like "Kerry is an ok guy but he is a weak candidate, we can fight back unlike him" and other shit.

if it was Carville or Begala with connections to the site then i could see it, but it just doesn't help the Clintons.

also it's important for Rahm to win these elections and they know Kerry is an asset in terms of fundraising. it would hurt their cause to go after Kerry right now on the fundraising issue.

i'm starting to think it's Kos himself who is behind it or some Mark Crispin Miller type . none of these guys are Democrats.

[politicasista]

58. I think also

they are trying to damage Kerry's (relationship?, credibility?) in the blogsphere. I don't know if it will have an impact in the real world, but I am starting to get afraid of what the fallout will be in the long run.

:shrug: :hide:

[karynnj]

67. The fight back thing is here though

This is an attack on Kerry and a diversion from working on 2006. If Kerry took time and effort and actively fought this - then he would be negatively impacting 2006 - by profiling a Democrats are fighting story and because he would be doing less of the good work he is doing.

That's why it may be important we are fighting back on the blogs - the problem is how can we counter media like CNN picking it up. This is dirty politics and swiftboating.

I disagree that it can't help hillary. Before this one possible criticism of Hillary was that she hogged money in 2006 - which she actually did. The problem is that many people will hear only the headline - and it will be Kerry who hogged money in 2006 - even though he didn't. (ie - who served honorably in the 60s? - again even if perception comes out a wash, Hillary wins)

[blm]

68. That was PRE Bill Clinton interview - no doubt Kos is now coopted by the $$

crowd who surrounds everything the Clintons do.

[_dynamicdems]

53. I think Bill Clinton's recent remarks about Karl Rove are a

preview of coming attractions. Clinton admitted that he admired Rove's adeptness with tactics and strategy, but he did not question the morality of such a strategy. That tells me all I need to know: expect the worst.

K0S may be part of the Clinton team. It wouldn't surprise me a bit. He's an opportunist and so are they.

I've never liked Bill Clinton. He's set my bullshit meter off from day one. He was a good President, but to be honest, I've never been able to sit through an entire speech by Clinton. I don't know why. Everybody else seems to love him and even Repugs admire his charm. I've never seen it, but I've sat listening to John Kerry's speeches like a rapt child listening to the "Night Before Christmas" for the first time. Go figure. Maybe I've just got an instinct about character.

[JI7]

57. but the thing with Kos is he doesn't need anyone to tell him to go after

Kerry.

it's jsut hard for me to see the Clintons being connected with him . i think they are too smart to go this way. their way is much more open yet subtle. and if they were going to go through such lengths as to come up with a anonymous website it hink it would be on something else.

[politicasista]

59. I hope they aren't connected to this n/t

[_dynamicdems]

78. I'm not saying they are directly connected, but someone might be

connect on the behalf of a Hillary Clinton candidacy; a degree of separation.

IMO, KOS himself is behind the HeyJohn on his own. He may be on someone's payroll, but you are right, he'd attack Kerry for the sheer fun of it.

[_dynamicdems]

50. It would make sense if K0S is behind HeyJohn.

He probably made his stupid post out of anger because he didn't like being referred to as a coward by David Wade, particularly because it's true.

K0S was a Republican and he probably knows all the tricks, which would explain why this smacks of RW bullcrap. And lately he's been kissing up to Hillary.

[JI7]

51. i would not rule out Kos as being behind the site

in fact he has turned up at the top of my list of those who could be behind it. i'm just catching up on everything but your mention of him and how he totally distorted things to attack Kerry and took the attacks on that anon site personally is really making me think he is behind it.

i haven't viewed him as aDmeocrat for a long time. also Warner dropping out and his loss of that paycheck probably got his anger going again at Kerry.

[_dynamicdems]

52. Maybe he's got a new paycheck.

That wouldn't surprise me a bit.

[JI7]

61. it would be a good idea to see the people who make reference to the site

or try to distort those who are critical of the site as Kos is doing here with Wade.

so far i see it as a Kos thing only and maybe someone like Mark Crispin Miller or some other non Democrat behind it. lets see how Carville, Begala etc might respond to it if asked.

[Dr Ron]

60. Info to dispute these attacks at Liberal Values

http://liberalvaluesblog.com/?p=489

Thanks to Mark Barrett who has done an excellent job of gathering much of the information at The Premise.

[ProSense]

70. Excellent post! Thanks! n/t

[MH1]

73. Thanks Ron - great post

You and KG and Mark are doing a great service countering the lies.

[wisteria]

74. Thank you, very useful information. n/t

[Democrafty]

77. Can you post this in a comment

at the JK blog? The haters are trickling over there, and would benefit from the info.

[Dr Ron]

79. I keep missing them

I've checked the blog periodiclaly but at the times I check the negative comments on Kerry aren't in the blog entries with active discussion. If I do see anyone bring up this stuff I'll post.

If someone brings up these attacks on Kerry when I'm not around, feel free to quote the info in the post or link. That's one reason they are posted on the blog.

[kerrygoddess]

62. Note to Kos: You Don’t Speak For Me

Since the Dem Daily was the among the first blogs to respond to the HeyJohn mess with a full run down on what JK has done and also to nail HeyJohn's anonymity, I'm a little behind on responding to the Kos dust up but I let it rip here - Note to Kos: You Don’t Speak For Me - http://blog.thedemocraticdaily.com/?p=4551

KUDO'S TO EVERYONE WHO GOT INTO THE FRAY! YOU ALL ROCK! :toast:

[beachmom]

65. Great posts, Dr. Ron and KG

I agree completely with your assessments.

[karynnj]

69. Nice defenses

[ProSense]

71. I really believe

the information you gathered spooked them! Great job!

[MH1]

72. Great post, kg

All of your posts on this topic have been wonderful, and they make good links for posting facts. Thanks for your efforts!

Also I just want to note that it was gratifying to see some folks who aren't normally Kerry supporters, sticking up for sanity on that thread. One has to believe that kos is a little smaller in their eyes for this.

[cadmium]

75. I went over board

with petulance. All or most of my posts were troll-rated and kicked off the discussion. Bad mood that day.

[demdiva]

76. My tag line on DU and DKos says "If Republicans will stop telling lies about Democrats...

... then we will stop telling the truth about them."

I think I'm going to switch it to "If KOS will stop telling lies about John Kerry, we will stop telling the truth about him"