Notes on Kerry blogger meeting upcoming

[TayTay]

There is an informative thread in GD on a small group of Iowa folks meeting with the Senator.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x2889044

I will be interested to see what they say.

[beachmom]

1. Kicking -- he updated with the answer JK gave on the concession

He feels that he didn't concede early.

He had over 3500 lawyers on the ground in Ohio, and 30,000 across the nation. They worked overnight attempting to find any legal basis for a challenge and there were none.

There was at that time a 120,000 vote descrepancy, and there were only 150,000 provisional ballots that were outstanding.

There was no evidence of voter fraud or anything that would have substantiated any sort of legal challenge to the results. I apologize for not remembering the precinct, but there was one precinct that couldnt vote until 4am or some such craziness, but he said since they WERE able to vote he couldn't challenge that either.

He said that even with the evidence NOW he still doesn't have any basis for a challenge.

-----

He said that he authored, along with Boxer and ______ (sorry, not overly familiar) the legislation that would call for verifiable paper trails for ALL elections in our country, but that with the R's in power that will not pass.



I could be missing a little. There was at least one other DUer there.



I just wrote him to find out if there are any blog reports of the event.

[beachmom]

2. This sounds right to me

I know many of you think the election was stolen, but I just don't agree (unless you want to talk about voter suppression, but that is inexact, so for me it can't count in the numbers). What Kerry is saying sounds like the truth, and maybe he needs to hear from more people like me who aren't on this stolen election bandwagon. I do agree, however, with BLM to secure the damned machines, and we need back up paper ballots.

[TayTay]

3. I don't think there was PROOF of a stolen election

I think there was tampering, but I don't think we will ever definitively know if the electin was stolen. The evidence was 'disappeared' by design. I think Kerry did what he could to fight this. I also think, going forward, the the GOP will pull out all the stops to make registration more difficult and make the fraud so far up in the chain of voting that it is nearly invivislbe and impossible to detect or stop.

[Mass]

4. Kerry did not say the election was not stolen, He said they DID NOT HAVE

A PROOF.

[beachmom]

5. Well, if there's no proof, then the rest is just conversation

That doesn't mean I don't think these new bills to help voters are a bad thing -- they're excellent. But the greater public does NOT think the election was stolen, and I don't think any of the statistical data will change their mind; it certainly hasn't changed mine.

I know I'm a dissenter around here, and I won't bother you guys with this all the time, but it is my conviction that the election was not stolen.

[beachmom]

7. And one more thing: remember how Karl Rove got the vote out

for those exurbs that David Brooks has gone on and on about? Well, guess what? They're real, because I've seen them. Brand new neighborhoods full of people who are super religious, far from the homes they came from, and prior to the Bush/Jesus phenomenon, not terribly political. They're not phantom voters. Many were too busy to vote, but with the reaching out from the GOP and their extreme fears after 9/11, they were persuaded to register to vote and vote for George Bush. I just don't think that was a made up story.

[Mass]

10. There are 2 issues here:

1/ vote suppression in swing states. This happened and as long as this will happen, it will make more difficult to Democrats to win. Something must be done against that.

2/getting a majority of votes throughout the country. This is a major mistep of the DNC in 2004, who di d not bother to get the vote out in blue and red states. The 3.5 millions votes additionnal votes that Bush got were NOT acquired in swing states, where Kerry did extremely well. There were acquired in blue states like CA and MA and red states like TX. Statistics are very clear. This is a VERY strong argument for the 50 state campaign that Dean is leading.

[blm]

12. Except Rove calculated their win with 4 million additional votes, yet

somehow on election day they managed to get 11million more with NO defections?

Just isn't true.

Here in NC I was working Dem HQ and we had MANY disgusted Republicans coming in RANTING about the war and deficit and buying Kerry yard signs. Especially after the first debate.

[Mass]

8. The latest poll in OH shows that people in OH think that by a large margin

(at least Democrats). Anyway, vote suppression is a way to steal the election.

I agree with you talking about the past is not necessarily useful, but it is important to talk about the vote suppression that happened in OH and FL (and elsewhere, even in Democratic states, as shown by the federal investigations in MA).

Whether Kerry won or not OH, securing the vote should be a major issue. I am happy that Boxer, Kerry, and Feingold have been on it lately with concrete things done, but it is important to make that an issue people talk about so that the subject is not left to loonies like MCM.

[beachmom]

9. Yes, I agree with you (I find MCM to be a loony).

But I also think we need to work on getting Democrats who are registered out to the polls. I know that in my area there are many Dems who only show up 20 or 40% of the time. Their vote is not suppressed -- they simply haven't been properly persuaded to show up.

I agree on the bills they're putting forward in the Senate, and all of you persuaded me that the voter id bill in the House is very bad.

[TayTay]

11. It occupies a middle ground.

The right to vote and have that vote counted is a sacred American right that people have gone to war and died to defend. It was the basis for the civil rights movement in America from the 1950's onward that resulted in death, suffering and civil unrest for decades. This is not nothing. Any politician has a moral duty to make sure that voters can vote and that votes count. This is a foundation of American democracy and we have allowed that foundation to crumble badly.

That said, there was no proof that Ohio was stolen. I contend that the stealing was done before election day, but in a way that can't be traced, by design. You can't track the voters that don't show up, it is not possible.

What you wrote about the suburbs being full of Repub voters who identify with them on religious and economic and social issues is completely true. America Coming Together in Ohio said that watching this wave of folks come in from the suburbs in '04 was like a living nightmare. They didn't know there were that many Repubs out there. This points out a lot of stuff, including the fact that Dems have to fight better and more cohesive ground attacks and better get more organized or they will not win elections.

It is also true that Democrats have left huge voting blocks to rot on the vine. Single women tend to agree overwhelmingly with the Democrats on the issues. They also tend not to vote. This is not exactly 'low hanging fruit' to be picked, but this group has to be appealed to. That vote is there for the taking, but there is no real plan to go get it. Sigh! We have work to do.

[cadmium]

15. I encountered some of these citizens today

I asked the first 13 unemployed poor people that I met today if they were registered to vote. None -- that is zero for 13---were registered. I reminded them that today was the last day in Mass to register. I presented it positively --like they were really lucky that there was one day left. None planned to register. One agreed to register after I asked him to consider that 100% of his sustenance (food/shelter/medical care) comes from public assistance. The other 12 did said they had no intention to register.

[wisteria]

13. I think the disenfranchisement and tricks in some precincts can

be proven.It may all come down to conversation or even a hunch at this time, but I am not ruling out anything for the future.I refuse to believe Bush won this race fairly. It was widely believed that the Nixon-Kennedy election was tampered with too. Nixon was urged to pursue it, but he decline to do so at the time. Nixon took the high road and that is what I think Kerry is doing also. Although, I will add, I agree with his decision not to fight the outcome at that time. I don't think he would of lived that down in the media and with middle America. Another contested election would have been received badly by the public.

[ProSense]

14. Agree!

Kerry knew all the problems all along, even the voting machines, but there was no evidence. With Republicans in charge, as Conyers pointed out, there was going to be no investigation of the election. In fact, there were Democrats who wouldn't have supported it. Kerry's statement:

(At the request of Mr. REID, the following statement was ordered to be printed in the RECORD.)

Mr. KERRY. Mr. President, free and fair elections are the foundation of our democracy. Thanks to the efforts of tens of thousands of citizens, millions more Americans registered and went to the pools this year. But despite this dramatic expansion in public participation, many voters faced barriers to casting their ballot. Disenfranchisement and barriers to voting are fundamentally undemocratic and should be unacceptable in the freest nation in the world.

On November 3, I conceded the Presidential election to George Bush and also expressed my commitment to ensuring that every vote in this election is counted. The questions being raised by my colleagues in Congress about the vote in Ohio are important. As evidenced by the media and Congressman JOHN CONYERS’ report of the vote in Ohio, there were many voting irregularities in the November election that led to the disenfranchisement of voters. These included long lines at predominantly minority polling places resulting from the failure to provide sufficient number of voting machines; voter intimidation and misinformation; the restriction of provisional ballots in a fashion that likely disenfranchised voters; and instances in which malfunctioning voting machines transferred Kerry votes to Bush.

I strongly believe that we need to investigate this election and reform our system. However, while I am deeply concerned about the issues the questions and issues being raised by this objection and think they are very important, I do not believe that there is sufficient evidence to support the objection and change the outcome of the election and I am not joining their protest of the Ohio electors.

Despite widespread reports of irregularities, questionable practices by some election officials and instances of lawful voters being denied the right to vote, our legal teams on the ground have found no evidence that would change the outcome of the election. It is critical that we investigate and understand any and every voting irregularity anywhere in our country, not because it would change the outcome of the election but because Americans have to believe that their votes are counted in our democracy.

We must take action this Congress to make sure that the problems voters encountered in Ohio and elsewhere never happen again. We must make sure there are no questions or doubts in future elections. It is critical to our democracy that we investigate and act to prevent voting irregularities and voter intimidation across the country. I strongly support the efforts of the civil rights and voting rights groups across the country that continue to investigate what happened in 2004 and how we can ensure it will never happen again. A Presidential election is a national Federal election but we have different standards in different States for casting and counting votes. We must have a national Federal standard to solve the problems that occurred in the 2004 election.

I am calling on my Republican colleagues to put election reform on the congressional agenda this year. The Republican leadership in the House and Senate must commit to make protecting voting rights a priority and commit to adding election reform legislation to the legislative calendar this year. One goal must be to eliminate barriers to voting, to encourage the greatest level of civic participation possible, and to restore confidence in the notion that every eligible voter will have the opportunity to vote and to have their vote counted.

I have spoken with Democratic Senate Leader HARRY REID and my colleagues in the House and Senate about my intention to introduce legislation this year to ensure transparency and accountability in our voting system and the need for the Democratic Caucus to make voting rights and electoral reform one of our top priority pieces of legislation. Election reform will be one of my top agenda items.

I will be meeting in coming weeks with key leaders on both sides of the aisle and from civil rights and voting rights groups across the Nation. I plan to use the information gathered by Representative CONYERS in his report, and information from other investigations underway, to guide my legislation. We must invest resources in our country to help State and local communities purchase modern voting machines and do research and development on safe and secure forms of voting. We must ensure that our voting machines enable voters to verify their vote.

No American citizen should wake up the morning after the election and worry their vote wasn’t counted. No citizen should be denied at the polls if they are eligible to vote. As the greatest, wealthiest nation on Earth, our citizens should not have to be forced to vote on old unaccountable voting machines. And, as the greatest, wealthiest Nation on Earth, our citizens should never be forced to vote on old, unaccountable and nontransparent voting machines from companies controlled by partisan activists.

Together we can put the critical issue of electoral reform on the front burner in Washington and across the country.

http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getpage.cgi?position=all&page=S50&dbname=2005_record

[karynnj]

6. It's also the right answer with many of us

who believe that there is reason to believe the election was stolen - but via voter suppression or through machine manipulation, which at this point can can shown to be doable but can not be proven to have been done.

What is key is that Senator Kerry AND OTHERS need to plug these holes and any others they can think of. Long term, the process likely needs a complete overhaul.

(As to the Edwards camp rumours - their game appears to be for others, including Elizabeth, to suggest he would have fought, without defing on what grounds. Note that, at least to my knowledge, JRE has said nothing. A reporter needs to ask him the question. I seriously doubt he would tell a MSM reporter he would have challanged the election.)

[cadmium]

16. Kerry is doing the right thing regarding this issue

I wish he would make this simple real point more often. When JK came to a Democratic Party cook out this August to promote local Democrats he said that electing local and state Democrats is the best assurance to get a proper Democratic vote count. He has been working 24 / 7 to help us win in the mid-terms. The "he didn't fight for us" blowhards either don't understand or acknowledge this.

[TayTay]

17. I agree.

Plus, the legislation goes through another committee. Sen. Kerry and every other Dem can file great bills to fix the system, but if the Repubs won't bring them to the floor, then they ain't going nowhere. (And the House would rather eat fried cowpies than bring up election reform legislation.) Sigh!