Which way for the left?

[sandnsea]

It would appear the anti-war movement is in near as much disarray as the Democratic Party. AlterNet Senior Editor Lakshmi Chaudhry has recently come under attack for supposedly advocating the continuation of the occupation. Patsified asks “if it was worth it”. I’m sure there will be a thorough trashing of Senator Kerry and his MTP appearance in the coming week, even though many, on the left even, support his exact position on Iraq and have since the beginning. BOPNEWS seems to have it right to me, regardless of the validity of the elections or the zeal of the resistance, the real cause of failure has been "the weakness of our policy and execution."

Erik Leaver writes, that “beyond, “bring the troops home,”…that we (the left) have done a poor job of providing a deeper alternative vision for U.S. security policy.” U.S. security policy certainly includes foreign policy, from trade to the environment to social justice as is laid out in Tom Hayden’s Appeal to Global Conscience, which are critical aspects of global peace that I fully support. But it also relates to countries in turmoil, Sudan, Chad, Myanmar and more. If we claim to care about genocide and oppression in these countries, how can we, in good conscience, throw up our hands when discussing the future of our Iraq? Has anyone thought ahead ten years to the reaction of a humanitarian crisis in Iraq should they have “their dictatorship, their civil war”, as Jonathan Schell also writes? Human Rights Watch already reports that “unlawful arrest, long-term incommunicado detention, torture and other ill-treatment of detainees (including children) by Iraqi authorities have become routine and commonplace.” It would seem this is the appropriate time to apply an ounce of prevention.

As Senator Kerry, Senator Kennedy, and everyone on the left has stated, there must be no permanent presence in Iraq. True democracy and freedom means a sovereign Iraq. It would seem to me that this would be the central point on which everyone could rally around, a sovereign Iraq with a government of their choosing.

Certainly a sovereign Iraq requires the withdrawal of all foreign troops, which is the point of contention on the left. Tom Hayden calls for immediate withdrawal, which seems to me and many others to be a devil may care attitude. Most of those who state “end the occupation” and “bring the troops home” don’t really mean that the occupation should end abruptly, say tomorrow. Jonathan Schell of “The Nation” calls for an “orderly withdrawal accompanied by American and international assistance.” While Lakshmi Chaudhry claims Senator Kerry offered no alternative on Iraq, she also writes “Well, it's time we made a good faith effort to raise that question. The world – especially the European and Arab nations – cannot afford a chaotic or unstable Iraq any more than the United States. An open willingness to cede real power – hardly the hallmark of the Bush policy – may well spark more enthusiasm amongst our allies.” Well my, my, where have I heard that before. If Chaudhry thinks it’s an idea of her own creation, I would suggest she actually read Senator Kerry’s solutions for Iraq, which he has been laying out consistently since the beginning. These same solutions were clearly laid out again today, “the training, the international community, the services and reconstruction, and the elections and protection.” While Senator Kerry does not support a date-specific timeline, he does support withdrawal of the troops. “I wouldn't do a specific timetable, but I certainly agree with him in principle that the goal must be to withdraw American troops.

George Bush is routinely guilty of black/white foreign policy. Unfortunately, so is the left. The questions are not, as Bush would have the country belief, endless war or appeasement. Neither is it, as some on the left suggest, pacifism or pro-Bush’s wars. It is entirely possible to support responsibility to the Iraqi people along with total renouncement of Bush’s global domination agenda. It is high time the left live up to its own lofty ideals of supporting human rights and ending oppression. We must end the American occupation in Iraq and return Iraq to the Iraqi’s. But we cannot claim humanitarian superiority if we disregard the well-being of the Iraqi people in the process. I would encourage Senators Kerry and Kennedy to create an alternative withdrawal timeline, dependent on legitimate milestones rather than date specific. I would encourage the left to support UN Resolution 1546 and Kofi Annan’s call for increased international participation in security training of the Iraqis in order for the UN to come in and assist in governance and reconstruction. Bush will never reclaim his credibility with the world after his war lies. That is no reason to stand in the way of the US reclaiming its credibility through an overwhelming show of support for the UN and internationalism. The only group who can lead this effort is the left. I hope they have the wisdom to seize the opportunity, for the benefit of the country and the world.

tp://www.lightupthedarkness.org/blog/default.asp?view=plink&id=300

[angrydemocrat]

1. I See What You Are Saying

I got pissed today because all these far lefties around here act as if you can just pack up and go and say screw the innocent people in Iraq. And that is exactly what it would be if we were to cut and run as many around here think you should. This war was based on lies and more lies. We all know that now including the Democractic Senators and Congressmen that were lied and voted to give * the authority to do the what he had to in order to get the weapons inspectors in there to finish the inpections. And had * done that we would know exactly what we know now and that is there was no WMD. But the democrats didn't vote for the bastard to be irresponsible and shoot himself in the damn foot. And I personally am sick and tired of the far lefties continuing on with their horseshit that these votes were to commit war crimes. Easy for these assholes to sit around and judge now but what the hell would they have done if they had been in these peoples shoes and the weight of making the right call for the security of America and it's people was on there shoulders.

And I am sick and damn tired of their horseshit about Kerry and Kennedey. The only damn thing that is different between the two is they disagree on having a time line. But instead of telling for what it is they make it out to be as if Kerry wants this war to continue and is in supporting all efforts against this war and that he sounds like *. This damn place is just as bad as free rebublic and it is no damn wonder I have seen in various places different people saying this damn place has become a joke. Because it has. These damn far lefties are just as bad as the far right. They spew republican talking points all the damn time.

But hell we can't say when we for sure will be able to pull troops. Because you have to make sure the innocent people of that country can defend and take care of themselves. And it would be total chaos if we started pulling troops now. They have to get the Iraqi military and police trained and they have to speed up the process. Once they get that accomplished they can start bringing home troops. But right now those people can't defend themselves against the insurgents, they have no electricity, they are living in unsanitary conditions, their country has been blown all to hell, ect. Hell you can't leave these people like that. Hell there are alot of kids suffering in all this shit as well as adults. These people didn't ask for our sorry ass president to invade and destroy their country and living conditions. But he did now it all has to be restored. They didn't ask for * to make this a haven for terrorist and make it impossible for them to defend themselves the way it is now but he did and it is a problem that has to be solved.

That is what I feel Kerry and other democratic leaders are looking at here. They want to get the problems fixed and get the country stable and get our troops home. But it comes in that order not bringing troops home now as so damn many are screaming. Yes I want all this shit over but it has to be done right or it will be chaos for us and the Middle East.

[ginnyinWI]

2. I see the logic in just about every argument the left makes,

like some who say we must get out now, we are the cause of all the violence. Then I hear others say no, we have to make sure it's stable.
I think it would be better to have the U.N. in there than the U.S troops alone--they'd have more credibility. I'm sure that when the insurgents instill the idea that we will be there forever unless they fight to throw us out, it makes them fight all the harder. So that was one of Kerry's four points, and it is smart.

Not knowing more than that, I'll trust JK's ideas. That's why we have trustworthy leaders. :)

[angrydemocrat]

3. Yep JK Knows His Foreign Policy

Hell if they would listen to John a little we might get the hell out of this mess. John knows what the hell he is talking about and I'm tired of all the damn far lefties and their horseshit acting and saying he don't. That is why the man is where he is today and done all he has and been very successful at it as well. The man is smart and knowledgeable unlike that bastard at the White House!

[sandnsea]

4. the cause of the violence

Yes, we are a big part of the violence. Kerry said that yesterday too. But there's ways to handle this without just pulling out and leaving Iraq in chaos. The thing is, even people on the left who support withdrawal don't support abrupt withdrawal. Not once you really pin them down. They support some other orderly plan which ends up being dependent on somebody stepping in to help with security. Just seems to me it would be more helpful for them to just support what they really mean because I would bet they'd bring the country along alot faster that way.

[angrydemocrat]

5. I had one trying to argue with me

yesterday on the point about what it would be if we just cut and run. All they did was piss me off with their horseshit. And John is not willing to just cut and run and he is catching hell from the far left.

[sandnsea]

6. I'm referring to spokespeople

writers, etc. Very few support an abrupt withdrawal. Sometimes you can pin DUers down by asking exactly how the withdrawal would work. That's when they sometimes revert back to the UN would come in or something like that. Also, the Hague Convention requires an occupying force to take the responsibility we've taken. It would actually be against international law to leave the country in chaos now. The looting we let happen broke the Hague rules too. They never look at that little detail either.

[angrydemocrat]

7. I agree with you about the writers

and spokespeople. And they a lot of times are the ones that keep people on the far left like these at DU hyped up and get them to believe a lot of the horseshit. Because some people believe everything they read and hear. It is as if they don't have a mind of their own. So when a when a writer or spokesperson says something in these peoples minds it has to be true especially when it goes along with their own pattern of thinking.