Europegirl4JFK: did this debate get any play in Europe?

[TayTay]

I often wonder if the European press picks up on the silent civil war going on in America and how truly divided this nation is. I wonder how this debate, which has so riled DU and the liberal web today plays, if at all, in some of the European countries. Whatever can they think of a nation that has just declared the Geneva Conventions optional.

[europegirl4jfk]

1. Not yet

First of all this happened too late in the night today for Europe to get any mention on the evening news here. And from my experience I can tell you that it often takes one or two or even a few days until this stuff really arrives over her. For example today when I caught the late night news on a German TV channel they had a report about the "Jesus Camp" (very critical BTW, comparing this to Islamic fundamentalists and talking about brainwashed children), something I had seen on DU about at least one or two weeks ago, if I remember right.

There are some articles on the Internet, but that's just press agency releases with information, and not any analysis yet. I will check the French and German press today (it's already 5.00am here and I think I should go to bed now) and report back to you later in the day.

[TayTay]

2. Thank you!

As ever, you are wonderful. I am so looking forward to seing you soon. This is going to be great!

[europegirl4jfk]

3. I checked the German press this morning

What I've read and seen so far is very critical against Bush with headlines like "carte blanche for torture" etc. but the German press mentions that there is opposition in the USA against this law and they cite Reid and other Democrats (sorry, no Kerry) as well as the ACLU and other Human Right organizations. The overall impression is - as most of the time in the German press - that the Bush government is evil but that there is an opposition that tries to resist. However some citizens' comments are more extreme: The new American world order means going back to the stone ages (doesn't that sound like Kerry *g*). Europe should distance itself from the American imperialism and seek its own peaceful course in Middle East politics. There should be a UN resolution against the USA... etc.

I'll check the French press later and watch the evening news tonight. Here is an English article from Spiegel online:

http://www.spiegel.de/international/0,1518,439792,00.html


I'm looking forward to seeing you too :-) Just one week to go! I will PM you later.

[Blaukraut]

4. Hey europegirl

thanks for the link. That was interesting! I usually watch german news on zdf.de or ard.de. They have videos or livestreams of the heute sendung and/or tagesschau. I'll check those out and report what I saw.

[europegirl4jfk]

8. I usually watch ZDF via satellite

Heute at 7pm or Heute Journal later in the evening. Did you see that the CDU and Merkel are going down? Worst poll results since the reunification. I still think she isn't that bad but well... it didn't take long.

[Blaukraut]

9. Yes, I saw that, and it warms my heart

I abhor the CDU/CSU and everything they stand for. Merkel is dumber than a sack of hammers and should never have been chancellor.

[europegirl4jfk]

10. I guess the grand coalition won't held very long

It's sad that the first woman chancellor wasn't a Social Democrat; I would have preferred that too. And Merkel is much too cozy with Bush.:puke:

BTW, my mom watched Tagesschau and they showed Kerry. Only a few seconds, but that's still better than nothing.

[beachmom]

16. Really? I thought she seemed pretty icked out by our dear leader

Didn't you see that when Bush started massaging her shoulders and she gave him a disgusted look.

My hubby is German, and he wanted Angela to win (but he didn't vote), because Schroeder failed to deliver enough jobs. My hubby is probably CDU (but not that into it), and he thinks Bush is godawful.

[europegirl4jfk]

17. Yes, I saw that, they had it everywhere in the German press

And I'm sure she hopes she can stay away from Bush as far as possible. LOL But... let me put it this way. She is more diplomatic than Schröder was or than Chirac is (and that's the reason my mom who is not CDU, actually likes her). But as Bush in an idiot and the only language he understands is blunt talk, he really thinks she loves him.

If the job situation in Germany will approve is to be seen. I think probably Schröder was on the right track but it didn't work out fast enough. I know that you can't compare the Left/Right situation in the US with the one here in Europe but I'm pretty consistent in being a "lefty", which means Social Democrat in Germany, Socialist in France and Democrat in the USA. And yes I'm even for the Labour Party in the UK, but I'm glad that Blair is leaving soon.

[Blaukraut]

18. any self-respecting woman would be offended by

monkey boy groping her, but politically speaking, Angie is too cozy with bush. The reason people were unhappy with Schroeder wasn't his fault; he couldn't fix in four years what Kohl (CDU) as chancellor managed to muck up in 16 years. Kohl, with his rush to unification and rush to privatization of everything, ran the country into the ground financially.
Schroeder had the unenviable, and impossible task to bring in jobs and money without taxing the shit out of people. Not only that, the opposition government threw stones into any type of progress he was making because they wanted the chancellorship back and wanted to be the ruling party again.
Make no mistake; the CDU is in the same vein as the republicans over here. They run on their christian bit and german catholics (they are different that American catholics and much more conservative) vote for the CDU/CSU pretty much without exception. On election ever, the pastors tell the congregation to remember where to mark their 'x'. This is no lie. I've heard it myself. Although the CDU is marginally to the left of the republicans over here, it's not by much. And they're just as crooked.

[Mass]

5. Le Monde has a long article and an editorial by Reed Brody (Human Right

Watch) titled "Alternative methods of president Bush: an open door to the worse". The article explains very clearly what the bill is and quotes a lot of Democrats (not Kerry, though).

http://www.lemonde.fr/web/article/0,1-0@2-3232,36-818221,0.html

http://www.lemonde.fr/web/article/0,1-0@2-3222,36-818149@51-809866,0.html

http://www.lefigaro.fr/international/20060929.WWW000000237_le_congres_approuve_la_loi_controversee_sur_les_combattants_ennemis.html

Le Figaro is less negative (more conservative) but quotes Kerry saying this allows torture.

[TayTay]

6. Thank you Mass for doing this

I appreciate it. One of Sen. Kerry's points, made over and over, is that this war is worsening our relationships with the rest of the world. Sadly, these reports from non-US media, particulary from nations that used to be our stalwart friends, show a deep divide and distrust.

[europegirl4jfk]

12. Merci Mass!

Je viens de les lire; très intéressant. I watched the news at France 2 channel tonight but France is more occupied with its own 2007 presidential election right now. Interesting candidates but I still go for Ségolène! :loveya:

[Mass]

13. Merci. I try to follow the election on the web, but it is very hard, but

I agree, I like Ségolène. I have been following her for a very long time as my family is from Corrèze where François Hollande is "député".

[Blaukraut]

7. every major German news channel had a report

in their evening news. They usually don't inject a lot of subjective commentary into these reports. It's a dry recounting of facts. When they talked about the opponents to the bill, two of the channels mentioned H. Clinton and played a short clip of her speech. Another mentioned John Kerry as former (and possibly future!!) presidential candidate and played the clip of him speaking out, saying that the bill allows torture.
Overall, the reports gave the impression that this bill was a victory for Bush, but might be ruled unconstitutional by the USSC.

[TayTay]

11. Thank you LevK

Again, I am very interested in how such a moral issue that does go to our national character plays in non-US media.

[blm]

14. You should post a rundown in GD - - people need to hear how this plays

in the rest of the world in an OBJECTIVE manner, and that other countries' newscasts DO give time to the opposition Democrats that the US news usually downplays.

Maybe invite DUers from other countries to post what they are hearing.

[Blaukraut]

15. done.

Unfortunately, it'll drop like a stone. sigh

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x2258182

link added on edit

[TayTay]

19. It didn't get a lot of posts

but it did go to the Greatest page. Nice work.

[Blaukraut]

20. thanks Tay

It's funny- watching the footage on german tv distanced it emotionally a little, if that makes sense, and made things seems a bit more hopeful. The reports sounded pretty matter of fact about the entire bill, or at least large portions of it, being ruled unconstitutional by the Supreme Court. We'll have to see, I guess. In light of Gozalez' veiled threats to the Supreme Court today not to interfere, I hope the nine decide that they will not bow to bush pressure.

[beachmom]

21. Chinese media also noticed this

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2006-09/28/content_5146830.htm

They show pictures of Abu Ghraib, too.


This is what Kerry was talking about -- we completely squandered our moral authority, so that now a country with an absolutely horrendous human rights record like China can pile on with condemnation of this shameful bill.