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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-02-06 03:16 PM
Original message
Anyone with an account at
Edited on Sat Sep-02-06 03:17 PM by ProSense
Huffington want to post these links:


Bush Renounces Smears, But Will Cheney, Rove and Mehlman Follow?
http://www.democrats.org/a/2006/08/bush_renounces.php


'The al Qaeda Candidate'
http://www.democrats.org/a/2006/08/the_al_qaeda_ca.php


"The president and I cannot prevent certain politicians from losing their memory, or their backbone. But we're not going to sit by and let them rewrite history. We're going to continue throwing their own words back at them."

http://www.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/11/16/cheney/index.html



In response to this challenge:

This is where it gets interesting. Peter Feaver basically took exception to those who had suggested that members of the Bush administration had been out frequently "questioning the loyalty" of their critics and those who posed agressive questions to the White House.

Feaver had two well constructed memoranda that he showed me and which I hope he will email me to post on the site. One of these was a roster of leading Democratic voices including John Kerry, Teresa Heinz Kerry, Hillary Clinton, Susan Rice and others who had questioned the loyalty of the administration or some agent of the Bush White House. He also had a clever roster of quotes from President Bush, Bill Frist, and many others calling for a polite bipartisanship. I really do want to post these here.

And then he challenged the some 20 or so people in our audience to send him by email clear cases -- in quotes -- of instances where senior administration officials, the President, or the Vice President, or other Republican party officianados had actually questioned another American's loyalty or patriotism. He said that they might have questioned their "wisdom" -- but hardly ever their patriotism.

He made this request publicly, and I think it's an interesting challenge for the blogosphere to embrace. I would like those who can find the quotes and clear references to cases where Cheney and others have questioned the patriotism of their critics to post them on the comments section. Please stick to the empirical -- we don't need fabrications, innuendo or interpretations of what people meant. I'd like to see if we can compile a record here that the White House can consider.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/steve-clemons/loyalty-oaths-peter-fea_b_28581.html


There are so many well-known and well-documented instances of this, the latest being Rummy, that it's hardly necessary to do this. In fact, it's probably a rhetorical request. Still, there is already an interesting link there, and it can't hurt to add more.
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cadmium Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-02-06 04:17 PM
Response to Original message
1. huffington post
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-02-06 04:46 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Cool! Thanks Cadmium!
That's the best one!
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-02-06 07:55 PM
Response to Original message
3. In addition, the premise needs to be attacked
Edited on Sat Sep-02-06 08:11 PM by karynnj
What John Kerry quotes to they have where he ever accuses anyone of lack of patriotism. He has defined ACTIONS that are unpatriotic - such as outing spies or other things which genuinuely are wrong. A catious lawyer like Kerry is not likely to have said "X is unpatriotic".

Another example of the Bush people is Pickles (who deserves the name in this instance) saying that she sees not wrong with the SBVT lying about Kerry's service record. (Note: impartial media did not go ballistic over this but over some basicly kind comment of Teresa about how she and Laura differ - and she said that Laura hadn't worked since she was young - which as she lasted worked when she was about 27 seems true.)

I had an account - but suddenly I was blocked from posting - I guess I'm worse than the RW freepers who are trusted.
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TayTay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-02-06 09:12 PM
Response to Original message
4. Another diversionary tactic by the Admin
to throw the spotlight to the Dems instead of keeping where it belongs: on the incredible incompetence, negligence and buffoonery of this Admin. As Sen. Kerry said in April at his Iraq Speech on Dissent:

The former top operating officer at the Pentagon, a Marine Lieutenant General, said “the commitment of our forces to this fight was done with a casualness and swagger that are the special province of those who have never had to execute these missions--or bury the results.”


Sen. Kerry and the Democrats did not send soldiers without the necessary body armor to their deaths in Iraq, this Administration did. The Democrats did not fail to come up with a plan for what to do after the fall of Baghdad, this Administration did. The Democrats warned that the US was committing far too few troops to this fight to stave off chaos and bloodshed. This Administration owns that failure. Sen. Kerry and the other Democrats fought for a real diplomatic plan to try and help Iraq salvage something good from this horribly bungled war. It is the Bush Administration, and the Republican Party that enables them at every step, that stopped every effort at diplomacy and at seriously trying to deal with the real situation on the ground.

Sen. Kerry quoted Edmund Burke in his April address, when Burke said, “A conscientious man should be cautious how he dealt in blood.” These colossal failures in Iraq and in other areas show that the Bush Administration and their Republican enablers in Congress are anything but conscientious men.

This is yet another Rovian ploy to make the Democrats defend their statements and ignore the cataclysmic failures in Iraq. These incompetent and brutal people are trying to get the press to call the Democrats out on their use of words, while the Republicans and the Bushies try to sneak out without anyone seeing that they are covered in blood.

It won't work this time. Some blood, you can't ever wash off, no matter how many diversionary tactics you employ. The stench of failure and death will follow these bastards forever. It's their war, it's their failure to plan, it's their failure to negotiate and it's their failure to protect our troops that is the real story, no matter how many sleight of hand tricks they try.
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-02-06 09:51 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. Maybe someone needs to highlight
certain words in Bush's copy of Macbeth, if it's one of three Shakespeares.

Seriously, that is an absolutely fantastic post. Bush has to account for his actions rather than demand others examine the words of his opponents. (Although maybe if the media took the time to examine the Senator's words they would find that when harsh they were demanding change where it was needed.)
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TayTay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-02-06 10:23 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. Pissed off tonight, can't help myself
Edited on Sat Sep-02-06 10:32 PM by TayTay
Every so often these motherf*ckers and their lies just get to you. I had my cup of tea in hand tonight and i decided to do a little perusal of the Congressional REcord, see if I could find something to add to my cheat sheet for the live-blog next week. I come across this exchange about adopting the Chemical Weapons Treaty back in the 105th Congress. (1997-1998) The US Senate was debating a treaty on prohibiting Chemical Weapons, for the love of God. The Rethug bastards in Congress didn't want to pass the thing because their buddies in the Chemical industry thought that it would be too expensive. So they made shit up about how it wouldn't work anyway and it would be too costly to implement.

This is in the goddamn Congressional Record. These asshole bastards have the balls to say that Democrats can't protect the country, Democrats are soft on terrorism and so forth and these sons of bitches bailed for their corporate friends on all sorts of simple detection measures at home and abroad that actually try to help in stemming global terrorism. Again, this is a matter of public record.

This is from the Congressional Record of April 23, 1997, and the Senator inserting these quotes is Craig from Wyoming, the douchebag. Craig first quotes Cheney who says, in effect, why go for a Chemical Weapons ban, we can't enforce it anyway:


The technology to manufacture chemical weapons is simply too ubiquitous, covert chemical warfare programs too easily concealed, and the international community's record of responding effectively to violations of arms control treaties too unsatisfactory to permit confidence that such a regime would actually reduce the chemical threat. Indeed, some aspects of the present convention, notably its obligation to share with potential adversaries like Iran, chemical manufacturing technology that can be used for military purposes and chemical defensive equipment, threaten to make this accord worse than having no treaty at all: Richard Cheney, Letter to Chairman Helms, April 7, 1997.


Not content with just quoting that limp Dick Cheney that 'we can't do this, it won't work,' they go on to quote that bastard Rummy, who tells everyone, it costs too much:

Here are the names of 25 major CEO's of chemical companies who stand clearly in opposition to this treaty. Mr. President, I ask unanimous consent that these ladies and gentlemen and their statements be printed in the Record.

There being no objection, the material was ordered to be printed in the Record, as follows:


America's Top Foreign Policy, Defense, and Economic Experts Raise Concerns Over the CWC's Impact on U.S. Business

Steve Forbes, President and CEO of Forbes Inc.: `....As I have strenuously argued on other occasions, maintaining America's competitive edge requires a lessening of the tax and regulatory burdens on the American people and on our Nation's enterprises. Unfortunately, the CWC will have precisely the opposite effect. It will burden up to 8,000 companies across the United States. Remember, these are in the hands of an international bureaucracy, not what we would like them to be, with major new reporting regulatory and inspection requirements entailing large and uncompensated compliance costs. These added costs constitute an unfunded Federal mandate. Like so many mandates, they are bound to retard our economic growth and make our companies less competitive.


...in addition to the costs arising from heavy duty reporting, the CWC subjects our chemical companies to snap inspections that will allow other nations access to our latest chemical equipment and information. No longer will violators of intellectual property rights in China, Iran, and elsewhere, have to go to the trouble of pirating our secrets... Some might even regard such burdens as a barrier to entry that can enhance their market share at the expense of their smaller competitors.'

Donald Rumsfeld, former Secretary of Defense and President and former Chairman and CEO of G.D. Searle and Company: `...Big companies seem to get along fine with big government. They get along with American government, they get along with foreign governments, they get along with international organizations, and they have the ability, with all their Washington representatives, to deal effectively with bureaucracies... Indeed, that capability on the part of the big companies actually serves as a sort of barrier to entry to small and medium-sized companies that lack that capability. So I do not suggest... for one minute that large American companies are not going to be able to cope with the regulations. They will do it a whale of a lot better than small and medium sized companies...

I don't believe that the thousands--whatever the number is--of companies across this country know about this treaty in any detail, believe that the treaty would apply to them, understand that they could be subjected to inspections, appreciate the unfunded mandates that would be imposed on them in the event this were to pass.'


Sen. Kerry, speaking for the sane, starts off a long speech about this treaty, and his concern for genuine security with these lines:

Mr. KERRY. Mr. President, it is interesting. I have been here on the floor listening to this debate for a period of time, and it is almost as if the arguments kind of pass each other in a strange way. I have, also, on the Foreign Relations Committee, been at the hearings. We keep hearing the same mantra repeated with respect to a number of objections, notwithstanding the fact that either the language of the treaty is going to be changed by virtue of agreements made between Senator Helms and Senator Biden and the administration, or the treaty itself addresses those specific arguments. One of the most interesting repetitive arguments is that this is somehow going to be dangerous for the chemical companies. We keep hearing people say that this is going to be terrible for American industry. But American industry has signed off on it. The Senator from Delaware represents many chemical companies. Fifty-six percent of the economy in the State of Delaware is represented by chemical companies. He hasn't heard from them in opposition. Nevertheless, we hear people repeat that.

Now, obviously, this convention, despite its attributes, is not a panacea for the threat of chemical weapons. None of us who are proposing this convention, I think, are suggesting that this is the panacea. But what it does do, Mr. President, is it contributes, on balance, more to the effort to have deterrence, to expose cheaters and to detect chemical weapons production and proliferation of any kind of significant military nature than not having it.


Honestly, I hope Rumsfeld and Cheney burn in hell someday for what they have done. These evil motherf*cking bastards are what's wrong with this country and the ball-less wonders in the American press core should have taken these friggin bastids apart years ago. Sigh!
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MH1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-02-06 10:51 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. Good rant
100% agree.

There is a reason it is often referred to as the "press corpse."

I had the pleasure of seeing Eric Boehlert pitching Lapdogs on C-Span today. I would much prefer if his book were fiction rather than truth.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-02-06 10:56 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. It's truly sad and
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-02-06 11:05 PM
Response to Reply #7
10. Seeing this, I realize even more that
Senator Kerry really has fought Cheney and Rumsfeld for nearly his entire career. He has tried to make the entire world better, safer and more peaceful. It's amazing that it is all there in the Senate record. The DC press corps had to know much of this, but didn't fight them - which is perhaps the scariest thing.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-02-06 11:55 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. The press corp didn't want to.
Then there are the people who can't figure it out that they are being dupe by a bunch of disingenuous assholes who feign confusion and know just the right BS questions to ask. These are the questions that anyone with any understanding of the situation can rip the assholes on, but once out there plant that tiny bit of doubt. These are those stupid friggin questions that if not address with facts, take the debate down a bizarre and unrelated path.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-02-06 11:08 PM
Response to Reply #7
11. Ugh!
Rumsfeld is a soulless bastard. His speech, op-ed and condescending letter to the Democrats all leave me hoping that when he's down, exposed, everyone who has the opportunity kicks the shit out of him.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-02-06 10:12 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. What you said!
The air is filled with diversion.
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