This thread REALLY bothered me.

[PassingFair]

Judge Gives Offenders Option of Church



LONDON, Ky. -- A Kentucky judge has been offering some drug and alcohol offenders the option of attending worship services instead of going to jail or rehab _ a practice some say violates the separation of church and state.

District Judge Michael Caperton, 50, a devout Christian, said his goal is to "help people and their families."

"I don't think there's a church-state issue, because it's not mandatory and I say worship services instead of church," he said.
...
David Friedman, a lawyer for the American Civil Liberties Union of Kentucky, said the option raises "serious constitutional problems."

"The judge is saying that those willing to go to worship services can avoid jail in the same way that those who decline to go cannot," Friedman said. "That strays from government neutrality towards religion."


Anyone else have trouble with this?

ACK! I don't know how to copy and paste an entire thread. Suffice it to say, LOTS of DUers thought there was nothing wrong with this as long as the place of worship was open for choice. Blech!
:puke:

[Lars39]

1. Yes.

It is a clear violation of church/state to me. It would also seem
that actually getting the offenders into rehab is not the ultimate goal.

I've got the same concerns when a judge makes AA part of the sentence.
There are other programs out there that do not rely on belief in a deity for the program to be successful.

[trotsky]

2. Bugs me too, and what this stupid judge doesn't realize

is that a DISHONEST atheist could simply sign up to attend "worship services" and fake his way through it. Hell of a lot easier to just drag your ass out of bed for a few Sundays than sit in jail.

"I don't think there's a church-state issue, because it's not mandatory and I say worship services instead of church," he said.

Except that the promotion of religion over non-religion is also prohibited, as determined by the Supreme Court.

[PassingFair]

4. Faking it or not...

this notion has me running for the priesthole!
Sentencing someone to religious worship?
AA was bad enough. This is patently outrageous.

[progressoid]

3. "I say worship services instead of church" WHAAAA?

What the hell kind of reasoning is that?


:grr:

[beam me up scottie]

5. Normal.

At least for those of us sentenced to live here.
I was also put off to see some post the opinion that this is perfectly fine because the defendant is being given an option.
Yes, for atheists it's either put up or shut up, as usual.

[progressoid]

7. Oops, I used the term reasoning which implies

using reason. My mistake.

[beam me up scottie]

8. I don't know what it's like in Iowa

but living here is almost unbearable for this atheist.
This judge is actually liberal-at least he acknowledges the Constitutional separation of church and state, even if it's only to circumnavigate it.

[progressoid]

9. Liberal? Yikes! My condolences.

Here we run the gamut of liberal to conservative. We were nearly a blue state in 2000 but we seem to be trending toward the right lately. I suppose a lot like the nation at large.

Regarding religion (or lack of); there are typical amount of heathens here but rarely is it out in the open. We're too polite I guess.

[beam me up scottie]

10. I was raised in New England

where it was also considered impolite to discuss religion.
Down here, they never let you forget about it.
I believe Lexington and Louisville are blue but not blue enough considering McConnell and Bunning got reelected.

Would you believe that with the exception of a few people, I am the only vegetarian most of the locals have ever met? Needless to say I don't tell them that I'm also an evil atheist, don't want to look out my window one night and see the villagers coming up the hill with torches...

[progressoid]

11. Aha - elitist!

I know what you mean. Sometimes you feel like an alien in your own country.

I used to have a couple relatives in Tennessee. It was an interesting experience visiting them.

[beam me up scottie]

13. Tennessee is a

bizarre place. :scared:

[BiggJawn]

6. "No sir, I was consuming ADULT BEVERAGES, not Alcohol..."

Same line of reasoning, yes?

He'd shit if I was in front of him...

"30 days, or 30 'Worship Services'..."(smile)

"I'll take the 30 days, your Honour, at least I know they talk about REALITY in Jail..."

[YankeyMCC]

12. Its a blind spot

They just can't concieve that there are people who don't believe gods. At least not people serious about "getting their life in order".

[DavidDvorkin]

14. Yes. Bothered me a lot.

Plenty of DUers seem to think that treating all religions equally eliminates any offense against separation.

[GOPFighter]

15. Doesn't the Constitution ban cruel and unusual punishment?

Bwahahahahahahaha! Of course there is a nice big loophole here. What if all the drug and alcohol offenders decided to start their own worship service for DRUGS and ALCOHOL?? On a Saturday night?

Ol' Judge Caperton thinks he's being clever, huh? He says "worship service" instead of church, wink, wink. I think it's time to call his bluff.

[progressoid]

16. funny...

after too much drinking, we used to call it "worshiping the porcelain god"

[GOPFighter]

17. Well, there you go!

"Where two or three gather together in my name, I am there among them"

Pocelain

[Dee625]

18. I had to go look.

Being new here, I wondered if there really were "lots" of DUers who though that was ok. It looked to me like there were only a few. Most either thought it was wrong or made a joking comment.

I don't think a few being ok with it is too bad considering this is not an atheist message board. <heads to my atheist message board to see what they're saying on it>

Oh yeah - that's really wrong. Church has no place in the court. Including as a sentence (although for some of us it really would be hard time).

[beam me up scottie]

19. Even one bothers me.

Is it too much to expect liberal progressives on an internet political forum to have a basic understanding of the Constitution and separation of church and state?

Perhaps, but it still bothers me.

Welcome to DU, Dee!
:hi:

[Dee625]

20. I understand what you mean

You would expect a good understanding of CSS and a good bit of tolerance from folks on a liberal board. But it doesn't happen with the general population, so I guess that's what I'm used to dealing with. To me, the fact that there are only a few voices in the crowd that go along with that is positive.

Heck, there were even some who didn't have a problem with what the judge did on the atheist board. Course who knows if the people posting were atheists or xians, just as here, who knows who the posters are?

Thanks for the welcome! BTW, I love your handle. Big ST fan here.
(you can blame my lack of religion on watching ST-TOS as a child and thinking things should be logical :) )

[Gelliebeans]

21. ye I saw that one

and the usual bunch didn't see the problem with worship as a punishment instead of jail because after all it is inclusive for everyone EXCEPT AN ATHEIST. :eyes:

This is the same crowd that says why can't you just stand there and be quiet while we have a moment for prayer. They think we ought to feel grateful they aren't making us pray just making it mandatory for us to stand around and STFU. :wtf:

[NMMNG]

22. It's a crock

"I don't think there's a church-state issue, because it's not mandatory and I say worship services instead of church,"


Semantics, semantics.

So if the guy goes to a satanic worship service the Judge is going to be ok with that?:evilgrin: