Treat others the way you would like them to treat you

[amandae]

Can I just ask, as an agnostic married to an atheist who together don't teach their children the "word of the Lord," why people insist that we are teaching our children "Christian values" because we are trying to teach our children to treat others with the same respect and courtesy that they would like others to treat them with?? Am I to assume that before Jesus, the world was nothing but chaos with only murder and complete hatred for everyone else? Is it realistic to think that NO ONE acted in such a way until these pearls of wisdom were uttered after the birth of the teachings of Christianity?? Why is being a good person equated with religious "teachings" when there appears to be more garbage acted out in God's name and by devout "religious" folks than Christians care to remember ... ?

<steps down from soapbox 40 lbs lighter>

You'll have to excuse me; I live in the bible belt and every now and then it really drives me crazy.

[beam me up scottie]

1. I feel your pain, Sister.

I live in a red state also. Every "good" person is a "christian".
Every "not-so-good" person is "obviously NOT a christian". :mad:
Life's simple for simpletons, isn't it?
And they blab this to you WHEN THEY KNOW YOU'RE NOT A CHRISTIAN.
I swear, if I didn't think I'd be burned at the stake, I'd have some phony satanical rituals at my house.
It is, after all, what they'd expect.
This is why I bring my own soapbox here and quite use it quite frequently. It helps.

Rubber chickens all around:

[amandae]

7. In my area there are so many people who are judgemental

and very "religious." I use that term loosly since their actions don't appear to often meet the values of what they prescribe to. Sometimes I almost feel like I can't breath here.

Knowing that my husband is atheist, people have run on at the mouth about religion to him so many times it's almost comical. I stopped talking about it at all (to people that I don't know really well) when we had one woman who wouldn't stop telling me that "Jesus was looking out for me" and other such phrases, after knowing that we didn't believe in a higher power.

I don't know why I haven't been in this group very much before now. I've bookmarked it though; it's nice to be around like-minded folks. :hi:

[onager]

2. Oh yeah!

Am I to assume that before Jesus, the world was nothing but chaos with only murder and complete hatred for everyone else?

Of course! And Jesus owed his morality to a bunch of nomadic goat-herders who ran the most important kingdom on Earth...after they ethnically cleansed the original owners, of course.

Take THAT--Babylon, Assyria, Persia, Egypt, Greece, Carthage and Rome!

The argument that nothing, uh, IMPORTANT happened until Buy-Bull times just drives me nuts. And I see it all the time.

FWIW, I understand your frustration too. I grew up in the Fundie South, surrounded by the attitude.

[amandae]

8. I'm in KS

This is as far south as I've ever gone (other than Southern CA, but that doesn't count in this discussion). I need to be back up north somewhere or something.

I feel really bad for all the souls that were forsaken before Jesus was born. To think that for all those years God didn't reveal his wisdom and all those people were worshipping the wrong gods and were probably doomed to hell without ever knowing that there was a different path to heaven. :eyes:

[opiate69]

3. The egocentricity is mind-numbing..

They either don't realize, or simply don't care, that entire civilizations rose, thrived and fell ages before the Christ's alleged existence... Christianity's existence covers only a fraction of mankind's, yet it is the "one true path"? Ugh... but then again, these are many of the same people who think the streets after dark are rife with roving bands of ne'er-do-wells, who will break in and murder them by way of sodomy if they so much as forget to lock their house one night. Stupidity should be painful.

[amandae]

9. I agree with you

The narrow-mindedness of Christians when thinking of world history is quite similar to the narrow-mindedness of Christianity (majority religion in this country) in today's society, IMO.

However, some of the best conversations that I've had about religion have been with people who will look beyond the narrow scope of Christian truth and will discuss their faith intelligently, and not be offended when asked questions about it. It can be an interesting topic for discussion when not faced with a person who is a blind-faith believer and can only answer with, "because the bible tells me so."

[Az]

4. You will be hard pressed to find a philosophy that doesn't teach this

From Socrates to Taoism. Its a simple factor of human nature. And of course as such any religious construct that lasts beyond a month is going to tap into this notion eventually.

Its quite simple. A religion survives not based on truth but rather based on how effectively it replicates itself to other individuals. There are many ways to do this and most are seen in various religions. The most obvious and direct is bringing up your children in the belief. There are tribal and other localized methods that keep a religion alive in a small community.

But to really spread you need some other tools. In order for one culture to overcome another it helps to be based in a stronger society. Accentuating a natural social tendency provides a strong core around which a society can grow. Thus taking our natural proclivity to learn by copying each other and strengthing its impact on society a stronger cultural connection is formed within a soceity.

When such a society impinges upon a more tribal based society without as strong a base it can quickly overwhelm them. Culture shock and other aspects come into play here. But the utility of altruistic behaviour makes sense to both a strong society and a religious mental construct dependent on replication to survive.

[amandae]

10. Good explanation

Thank you :hi:

[Gelliebeans]

5. Feel free to vent

As a mother and an atheist I feel your pain :pals:

[amandae]

11. Thank you

:pals:

[fshrink]

6. You're one of the few.

Those who have the courage to refuse to stand and join the herd. You and your children can be really proud of it.

[amandae]

12. Thank you

My children are the ones I'm a little worried about while we live in this area. My oldest has already come home from school (she's in 1st grade) and told me about God because another little girl told her about God. This other little girl is also one with a hyperactive imagination (i.e., according to this girl Lindsey Lohen is her sister) and told my daughter that she saw God and he's real. My daughter knows how wrong it is to lie, and hasn't quite developed the bullshit detector for anyone but my husband, so she can't believe that her friends would lie to her when they tell her something like that (like personal experiences or facts, etc.).

I'm just waiting for the kids to ask her why she doesn't go to church ... and see if that matters at all in her circle of friends.

[onager]

13. Found this article for you...

It sounds sort of like your family's situation. As usual, I could remember reading it but not where. But I managed to find it! That doesn't happen very often.

Anyway, it's a sort of humorous look at kids discovering "nice atheists" in the neighborhood:

My wife and I have three daughters, ages 12, 10, and 6. Since the day they were born we have raised them without religion. We have never hidden this from our neighbors, but then we haven't advertised it either (except for our bumper stickers). One of our neighbors is a very nice, very religious family. They are Christians, but I have no idea what branch they belong to...

http://www.infidels.org/secular_web/feature/1999/nice.html

[amandae]

14. That's a great article!

Thank you! :hi:

[Gelliebeans]

15. I enjoyed that article onager, thanks. n/t

[fshrink]

16. Yes. I worry about it too...

But that's how courage is learned. I always try to keep extremely quiet and soft when I broach that subject with my 10 yo girl. I will not give an inch but I do my best to be completely honest and non-dramatic. I think that the best teaching proceeds by form more than by content.

[GOPFighter]

17. Christian values?

"Christian values"...treat others with the same respect and courtesy that they would like others to treat them with??

This immediately struck me as an oxymoron. The hard-core fundamentalist xtians I know don't give a flying f*** about respect and courtesy for the feelings and beliefs of others. It's all about them and their Jesus. If you aren't one of them you're lost and going to hell.