Tin foil hat time here....

[Citizen Kang]

I still think that some massive voter fraud has occurred in this election and that John Kerry did receive the most votes, just as Al Gore did in 2000, but was not allowed to take the presidency. While thinking about this it occurred to me that perhaps the reason Al Gore chose not to run in 2004 was because he knew this one would be fixed just like the last one and that running this time with no hope of winning would have ended his political career. Any thoughts?

I don't think Al Gore's political career is over. I think he is going to run in 2008 and I will support him. Even if Dean is also in the race.

[rabid_nerd]

1. From working hard to get him to change his mind...

...as a volunteer with a few Gore efforts for 04, I can't say with conviction his reasons for not running.

But the reasons given to us were that he wanted the race to be about the future and not a media circus rematch about the past. 08 won't be a "test of Bush's legitimacy", and it wasn't really this time either.

And imho, I think this shows all those who say Gore didn't fight what it REALLY looks like when someone doesn't fight. Remember that no Senator stood up for the CBC, including this year's candidates. But I supported and pushed for them and have helped dig and support Olbermann and such in the Ohio matter.

But I digress.

I just think Al has so many I-told-you-so's in his belt that he never has to say it to the Republicans. You can't do that with almost any other candidate, and I believe this is his unique strength. More so (quantity wise) than even Dean, as you say.

I think it'll be an interesting couple of years ahead... ;)

[AlGore-08.com]

2. If Gore thought 2004 was going to be fixed, he would have shouted that out

In every one of his MoveOn.org speeches. He didn't. He talked about voter disenfranchisement in his last one - - that voters who were thrown off the FL rolls in 2000 were still not restored in 2004. He talked about the "rent-a-mob" used to stop the Miami-Dade vote count. And "rent-a-mob" was the word he used to describe them.

He ended the speech with a passionate call to vote for Kerry/Edwards.

He was the featured guest at a DCCC House Party, and he talked about how the right to vote was under assault, and that was the biggest civil rights challenge we face today. Again, he didn't say that it was impossible to win because the system was rigged.

To play devils' advocate, if it was true that it was now impossible for any Democrat to win a Presidential election because the system was rigged, and Al Gore knew that fact - - why on earth would he keep quiet about it? What would he have to lose by speaking out? How would keeping quiet help him become President or anything else?

While we're on the subject, why would the Rev. Jesse Jackson keep quiet about it? He has everything to lose by ignoring legitimate vote fraud and everything to gain by bringing it to light. Why would Jimmy Carter keep quiet about it - - especially since, before the election, he was highly, publicly critical of the shortcomings of the system?

Personally, I think that there almost certainly was some vote fraud in the 2004 election - - because there's some in every election, unfortunately. But I don't think there was enough to tip the election to Kerry. I could be wrong, but the fact that Kerry and company conceded so quickly makes me believe this. There is just no way that the guy with the most personal stake in the election, who bragged for months about his superior recount team and strategy, would have conceded if he thought he had won. The guy's already spinning how his Ohio State and national vote totals will increase once the recount is done. He's very openly campaigning for 2008.

Compare his behavior to Gore in 2000, who fought for 36 days to get all the votes counted, and pointed out all the most obvious, illegal activities - - the Miami-Dade mob, the forged absentee ballots, the voter purge, etc., etc. Even in his concession speech, Gore voiced his disagreement with the Supreme Court's ruling in Bush v. Gore. Gore is a guy who knew he won. Kerry is a guy who knew he lost.

To put 2004 in some perspective, a lot of the crud that folks are complaining about is (unfortunately) nothing new to elections: lack of resources, untrained pol workers, lack of handicapped access and lack of translated materials... that all happens all the time, and most of it is due to the fact that nobody in state and local government funds elections properly - - because we, the voters, haven't held their feet to the fire for decades.

Don't get me wrong, I think people are 100% right to demand verified voting, and other election reforms that will end the 8 hour lines and the rest of the nonsense.

[Mabus]

3. My thoughts

I also believe that there was voter fraud this election cycle. It comes in so many forms that the totality of them may have been enough to push it in *'s favor. There were instances of calling people and giving them wrong information about everything from where to vote and what they needed in way of ID to vote; picking up absentee ballots and never turning them in; not turning in voter registration forms; people finding out they were re-registered in different districts; and then of course the exit polls (which by some reports were accurate for other races, just not the presidential race).

It is really sad that so many people who voted for * and are proud of it act like it was a contest between the home town team and the rival school across town. They didn't support him because the like him or his policies they voted for him because they wanted their "team" to win with no regard to the damage this man is doing.

I can't ever know the exact reasons why Gore choose not to run. But I admire him for taking advantage of his situation to speak out on issues that even most of the candidates wouldn't touch. In a lot of ways he put his credibility on the line with his MoveOn speeches and he came through with flying colors. The speeches have been incredible. Gore spoke the truth at a time when Bush was enjoying all time highs in popularity. Like me, many of us watched them via streaming video or on C-Span and we were entranced.

Also, by not running he opened the door to media scrutiny. If Gore had run, the MSM would have done an even poorer job at reporting on Iraq, Halliburton, etc. than they have done. Although, I believe the tide finally began to turn on reporting on Bush's actual record, the reporting on it was still too scant and way too late to penetrate into the psyche of most Americans.

In many ways, by Gore not running people have begun to appreciate how much different the Democratic and Republican parties are. It's like he took a step backward so the rest of us could see what was really going on.

LOL. I just got an e-mail from one of my friends. She said she liked the idea of the Dean at DNC and Gore in the WH.

[Rhiannon12866]

4. That's a very good explanation as to why Gore didn't run again

I always have believed that he won in 2000 and have read articles and seen documentaries that prove it. I just cannot understand how this happened in this country once, let alone twice. But it makes perfect sense that if he believed the fix was in, again, it was hardly worth the effort, let alone the heartache, of attempting it.

If he ever runs again, for anything, he's got my vote!

[Cheswick2.0]

5. I think he chose not to run because the party told him they would

not support him. Many big name democrats even said so publically. So now we have yet another bush presidency.

I don't know if Gore is finished with politics. I do know I would love to work for a Gore/Dean ticket.

[JNelson6563]

7. Hear! Hear!!

Gore/Dean '08!!!!

:toast:

Julie

[RawMaterials]

8. Gore/Dean 08

That sounds great.

From the tin foil hat ideal, did anyone ever think of the connection between kerry and bush and the skull and bones yale faternity.
as to why kerry didnt fight the way gore did in 00.

I wonder if the whole process was just a big show put on by the powers that be for good tv ratings....

[robbedvoter]

6. Al Gore did not "CHOOSE" not to run. DNC forced him out because

as barney Frank put it: "Al Gore should step aside, it's Kerry's turn". Gore pretty much said so in his speech "I was perfectly willing and able to run again, but there were those in the party who thought this is not to be about the past"

[DFLforever]

9. I don't think Dean would oppose Gore

If you read Dean's book, YOU HAVE THE POWER, you'll learn that Gore and Dean have become very good friends.

And I think Dean would be a good VP for Gore. It's my dream ticket.

[Samantha]

10. Al Gore is in a class by himself

I think the struggle for control over the Democratic party for 2008 has already started. Many people do not know that Hillary and Gore have always been at odds, always meaning during the start of the Clinton years. It was described as a struggle against each other to exert the most influence over Bill Clinton.

And yes, the party did publicly ask Gore not to run after he had been in DC privately telling people he would run. It was someone's else's turn. Time for a fresh face. When asked at the time, the DLC named Kerry and Dean as two Dems who were up at bat. Too bad Al "lost" in 2000; it was now some else's turn. I felt this was the biggest mistake the DNC could make. I thought Gore could take Bush* by a margin too big for Bush* to steal away. I privately thought Hillary had exerted a lot of private influence to ease Gore out of the limelight, setting the stage for a personal 2008 presidential debut.

I believe one of the reasons Dean has privately chosen not to run is his support of Gore. If Dean is in at the DNC, the party turns left. If a Clinton-supported candidate is in at the DNC, the party turns right. The winner of this contest next month will be a big indication as to who supports whom. I am hoping it will be Dean.

If Dean successfully helps Al take control of the party over Hillary, Al will give him a cabinet position should he prevail in 2008. From where I sit, it's a win, win all around for the Gore-Dean supporters.