Has this been discussed at all...

[bliss_eternal]

...on DU? I'm curious.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chuck_Knipp

I'm not by any means, suggesting that anyone bring this subject matter up on the open forum(as I know it would not fare well). I actually just learned of this person over the weekend, and their form of "entertainment." I was disturbed to say the least. Given the controversial nature of their "act" I came to DU seeking threads about their shows being shut down--and didn't find any. :shrug:

Anyway, if anyone recalls this being discussed and has links, please share. I'm sincerely curious to hear/see what was said about this here.

Forgive my being cryptic and not stating specifics in the subject line. Given the nature of this person's act, I'd rather not add fuel to their unsavory fire by stating their name, their persona's name, etc. in a way that could make them open to being found on this board through a "google search." Some extremely hard working gays and lesbians of color were successful in shutting down this guy's shows in several cities (New York, Boston and Los Angeles to name a few), which has sent him "underground" to perform. I applaud (and appreciate)their efforts :applause: and don't want to undermine what they've done at all nor contribute to this guy's income in any way, shape or form. :puke: So, this is why I'm being a bit understated in terms of discussing this. I brought it to this forum as I don't want to see the issue mishandled in the main forum on any level.


Thanks!
:hi:

[Brewman_Jax]

1. I read about this "act"

reading one of the various columns I have listed. This might need to be brought up when one of the gay "usual suspects" feels obligated to tell black people what causes they should or not support.

[bliss_eternal]

3. I don't know about that...

...I'm not bringing this up in an effort to encourage divisiveness on any level.

No one on DU has a right to tell anyone else what causes they should or should not support, as it's up to each individual to decide, based on their personal belief system. However, it is important to note that there are many in the blogosphere (white and black) members of the glbt community that are NOT happy with this act and have worked to see it banned from several places around the country.

Are there gays that support this creep? Sadly, yes. Unfortunately some that do also happen to be black, (i.e. Rupaul :eyes:). Is it fair or just to lump everyone together based on sexuality, gender or race? I dare say it is not. All gays don't support this guy, anymore than all blacks are going to see his act as negative and hurtful.

When we get into gay vs. straight vs. race no one can ever have the upper hand, so to speak. There is no upper hand. We're all in this together, as human beings. Merely my opinion of course, but one I humbly attempt to adopt from those that made the greatest impact on our society, during some of the greatest times of strife. ;)

[bliss_eternal]

5. ...but of course,

...you're within your rights to do whatever you like.:)

I just didn't want it to be said that I'm encouraging such a thing by bringing up this situation. Or that I agree with that idea.

[SemperEadem]

6. I don't think it would be tolerated nearly as much as it is

if he were impersonating appalachian women on welfare. I just don't get why he thinks any black woman needs his 'interpretation' when he is neither black nor female.

It just tells me that his narrow-minded empathy capacity is as shallow as a puddle.

[bliss_eternal]

9. Very well said.

Quote:
It just tells me that his narrow-minded empathy capacity is as shallow as a puddle.

:rofl:

Apparently, in defending this "act" he's said it's a tribute and homage to the woman that cared for him when he was a child. :eyes: He's stated that she's seen the act and thinks it's "hysterical." Again....:eyes:

I am comforted that quite a few in the glbt community have been very outspoken against him, and have worked hard to get several of his club dates canceled. For example, Jasmyne Cannick and Keith Boykin. Jasmyne has been quite instrumental in driving his show out of larger clubs to the underground performance circuit. (Go Jasmyne:applause:).

http://jasmynecannick.typepad.com/jasmynecannickcom/2007/01/shirley_q_liquo.html

http://www.keithboykin.com/arch/2006/01/09/jasmyne_cannick

[Kerrytravelers]

2. I've never heard of this "act" before. Wow. I don't even know where to begin.

My first reaction- white people painted in black face can never be a good thing. It made a political point when Archie Bunker did it, but I don't see this "act" as anything that Normal Lear would be a part of, so not a good idea, at all, in my uneducated opinion on the matter.

Personally, as a white person, I tend to cringe when I see white people in black face. It is unsettling and disgraceful, at the very least. It sends a message that many of us white people don't want to be connected with- at all.

[bliss_eternal]

4. I like the way you put that...

..."cringe." What else could anyone do when they see such a thing?

Some have made the argument that because the fellow is "gay" and has faced discrimination he has a "right" to this particular artistic expression. While I recognize and empathize with his struggle as a gay man living in the south, I don't believe this particular "statement" is his to make.

Drag performance is a long tradition of performance in the gay community, which I have no issue with at all. It's the racial aspect that bothers me--the blackface. If he weren't white, but black we wouldn't be having this particular discussion. It would be a non-issue. I feel his act is inappropriate, cruel and beyond insensitive.

I'm aware of another male gay performer that has performed in blackface, but he is black. As such, I believe he/she was making a very pointed statement. One that does not offend me or make me question the humanity and decency of other human beings. :grr::mad:

Learning of this situation has made me question the state of what is labeled as "art". I now question some of the artists I previously thought I admired and respected, that have spoken out in support of this "work." :eyes: I don't believe in good conscious I could ever look at these particular artists the same way again, or support them or their work.

Also learning that there are apparently (white) gay males (and others) that are supportive of this is hurtful. At the same time, that's on them, it's their choice and their right to do so. Human nature I suppose. If it makes some feel good to laugh at such things and call it "art", well.... :shrug: I can't assume that ALL gays support such a thing, and I can't allow some people's limited views to change who I am. ;)

[SemperEadem]

7. I disagree with anyone who says that he has a right to do this

just because he's a gay man living in the south. If someone saw him walking down the street and knew nothing of him, to them he's just another white guy walking down the street--not a gay white guy... It's only when he chooses to make that declaration to someone who would otherwise have no way of knowing that he's gay by just looking at him that other people are made aware of him being gay. This guy can still take advantage of and manipulate 'the system' to his own ends and never breath a word to anyone that he's gay. That's not a judgment--that's a fact of life. His ability to not disclose that which would cause him bodily harm or ostrasizing is still his advantage.

That is a humongous difference from a black person, straight or gay, and the past 450 years of struggle since the African was kidnapped from their homeland and forced into slavery; forced into a fear-based system that was set up to deny them their right to their own humanity and autonomy based on their DNA. James Byrd, Jr's sexuality isn't what got him tied to a truck bumper and dragged to his death 8 yrs ago. Byrd being a black man walking by himself down a road in Jasper, TX is what set two assholes on the path to killing him.

[bliss_eternal]

8. If I may...

...respectfully of course, (as I always appreciate your input and opinion:hi:) but in my opinion this isn't entirely accurate or true. I agree that he doesn't have a "right" to do this as a gay man, just not for the reasons you've shared (based on appearance, etc.).

Gay white men (and women) are frequently beaten, robbed and targeted for hate crimes WITHOUT making an announcement that they are gay. We just don't hear as much about such attacks on the glbt community. We really need to think about why that is the case, btw. I believe it is because they are still viewed by the majority as a "less visible" minority groups in our country (kinda like illegal immigrants that are hidden based on fearing deportation, yet targeted by hate groups because they know they won't report them).

Can someone "tell" they are gay by looking at them? Do they just look like other "white men"? :shrug:
Apparently there is something flawed in this theory, because assailants "presume" they are gay and attack them as such. Apparently it's just not as BIG a story as a black man being dragged to his death in Texas. :scared::cry:

Here are a few examples:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matthew_Shepard

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Broussard

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Hate_crimes_against_LGBT_people


I'm not trying to pick on you by any means, but I find this argument (when made my anyone) divisive. I don't believe it serves our higher goals as progressives.

Coments like these give me the sense that one groups struggle is somehow GREATER than another group's struggle in our country for equality. It also seems to me a bit of a competition about who suffers more. :crazy: As if there's some sort of race for suffering, oppression, and who's treated worse by "the man."

I also believe this isn't necessarily organic, coming from the groups themselves but from the powers that be. It is an old device of the patriarchy of our society to get all the minorities fighting with each other. Sadly, it works and keeps all in a perpetual sense of defending the rights of their individual groups(i.e. blacks vs. gays, women vs. the religious, the religious vs. the the atheists, people of color vs. illegal immigrants, etc., etc. ).

I often wonder how much more could be accomplished if groups stopped pointing out the inherent differences, and worked together to take down the evil people that try so hard to keep everyone divided and fighting with one another. There must be some fear or danger of this, because look how hard they work to make sure we pay attention to such things. ;)

Perhaps my views on this are naive and idealistic. I don't know. I'd just prefer to speak out for EVERYONE'S rights as "people," instead of encouraging the argument that only those that wear their minority status on their skin are capable of being oppressed in our country. For those that choose to belittle, bully, victimize and oppress others someone's difference is readily apparent to them.

I know that there are people on this forum that disagree with me, and think I'm crazy to defend such a thing. That's ok. Everyone is entitled to their opinion on this issue of course. I just feel the need to toss out another side to this, as it's important to me to do so. I'd like to strive to see us all working together (yes, I know---dream on bliss. lol).

[Chovexani]

10. Oh you hit the nail on the head

As a queer black woman I hate these arguments because I always feel like I'm caught in the middle. Your words hit me to the core...it's what I always try to point out but can never manage to do without breathing fire and beating my head into the keyboard.

Thank you so much, as usual. :hug:

[bliss_eternal]

11. Chovexani...

:hi::pals:

It's so good to see you!

Unfortunately, I think too many within the community don't consider that there ARE gay people of color, and more often than not such comments are hurting their own people. Honestly, I'm just tired of all of the divisiveness. It was a horror to me to learn of the homophobia that gays of color face from their own people. :(

Sharing information sometimes helps people to see the way issues are frequently polarized, and simultaneously used to divide everyone. :hug: