A lot of us have a lot to learn.

[Kerrytravelers]

In the past, I have found myself corrected by a few of you from this DU group. At the time, I thought, what are they talking about? Huh? I actually reflected upon it for a week, going over in my mind what I wrote and how it was perceived by some people, truly in ways I had never thought of. In fact, I believe mark414, in particular, stuck out in my mind.

In the recent past, I have found myself constantly having to explain Catholic doctrine to people. I found that some rejected me with snarky comments no matter how nice I was. Others responded in kind and it was actually good for both of us. I have had similar conversations regarding the Minuetmen and immigration.

Now, after my little clash, I spent some time lurking here, reading the concerns expressed on this DU group threads. There are other DUers, I'm sure, who would benefit from your insights. Believe me, I know it can make your blood boil. I have gotten so annoyed with the Catholic stuff and the Minuetmen conversations, which is in no way near what African-Americans have expreienced, I understand that.

I would like to see threads started in GD really expressing how you feel and what is being said that is offensive and how we should critically be looking at issues. I want to believe that a large majority of DU isn't racist at heart, and often has no idea what they are saying is offensive. It can be a bit jarring when something is pointed out to you. But, I'd also like to believe that a large majority is like me, and learns from this rather than retreads from facing issues head on.

Thank you all for sll you have done for me and helping me grow as a person.

[angee_is_mad]

1. Been there

done that, that is why it is so refreshing to be in a group that understands or at least willing to listen when it comes to race issues.

I have made several posts in GD, particularly about how the party is taking the black vote for granted and that the repubs realize it. That is why they have been able to make some gains in the black churches.

The repubs know that they will never get a majority of the black vote, they don't need to. What they need is to chip away a few percentage points and get the rest to stay at home.

I've family members and friends who are willing to seat out elections to wake the party up. As they say, "hell what do we have to lose?"

The party is so fixated with soccer moms and nascar dads that the base who has always been there for them, sometimes to a fault, is kicked to the curve.

Needless to say this is something that other forums do not want to hear on hear. Hell, I guess its a black thang and you wouldn't understand!

But thanks for the post and welcome to our little group.

[wildeyed]

2. It is even worse than just taking the black vote for granted in my city.

We have out-and-out abused it.

White dems tend to vote along racial lines more than party lines. So if you have three dem at-large candidates, one is black, two are white and there are three spots available, the white dems (some, not all) vote white dem, white dem, white repub and leave the qualified black dem out in the cold. The black dems vote straight ticket. Needless to say, there is a lot of tension about this, and understandably, some black dems now will not vote for the white dems.

Last local election was a complete fiasco. Several exceptionally qualified black politicians were shut out. As a result of the divisiveness, repukes owned us.

This last presidential election was better. Plus the dem controlled state legislature is going to war with the repuke judiciary over the majority democratic/black voters the repukes are trying to disenfranchise over some trumped up provisional voting issues. So I am hoping that we can keep turnout high and do well this year for ALL our candidates.

[SemperEadem]

3. IMO

I want to believe that a large majority of DU isn't racist at heart, and often has no idea what they are saying is offensive.

This is where I disagree--I believe that they DO know that what they are saying is offensive, but they're so small in integrity that they don't care. As far as they're concerned, we don't have a right to our perception/experience/interpretation that what they've said is offensive. To them, the only thing we have a right to is to ignore them so they don't have to reflect upon the dismal condition of their integrity.

And they'd be the first to whine if something true was said and stuck to the target painted on their forehead. There are ugly people everywhere, the degree to which they will share that ugliness depends upon the security of their anonymity. Very, very few will venture out on their own and embrace their ugliness in the open, in full view of everyone. They still have a need to be able to blend in. Most are cowards and do their dirty work under cover... or behind a computer monitor.

[Kerrytravelers]

4. depends upon the security of their anonymity

"depends upon the security of their anonymity"

Very good point. I have often felt that way. People tend to say whatever crosses their mind and they figure, oh well, no one knows who I am anyway. I know quite a few DUers from my work on campaigns, so I"m not completly annoynmous. But even if I was, I like it here too much to piss people off and not own up to it.





"Very, very few will venture out on their own and embrace their ugliness in the open,"

Well, I hope I've done that. I never intended upon being ugly, but anything I write that is commented upon, I usually try to figure out where the responder was coming from.







"This is where I disagree--I believe that they DO know that what they are saying is offensive, but they're so small in integrity that they don't care. As far as they're concerned, we don't have a right to our perception/experience/interpretation that what they've said is offensive. To them, the only thing we have a right to is to ignore them so they don't have to reflect upon the dismal condition of their integrity."

Being that this is your experience, you're probably right, but I sure hope/wish/pray you're wrong. What an ugle would we live in... and we're suppose to be the open minded ones who want to move forward through education and diversity.

[angee_is_mad]

5. Racial posts

on here tend to bring out the same people(excluding minorities of course).

I've noticed this trend and these people only come out with there is a post concerning race. Go through the archives and you will see who I mean.

I actually got in a fight with one such person about a thread. It is almost like these people are telling minorities(particularly Blacks), "look at all the democratic party has done for you all and you are still complaining. How dare you black people say that we are taking you for granted."

You Blacks are just shameful, just plain shameful, oh and by the way I've been the victim of reverse racism and you don't see me complaining.

You blacks just continue going to the polls and vote straight democrat like we tell you to and stop all your complaining.

Some people on here give new meaning to the word progressive!

[Kerrytravelers]

6. I had not noticed that certain people only come out for racial posts...

but I post on everything. I try to keep into all different topics so I can constantly read new opinions.

I trust your analysis. Reading through some of these archives will make my head spin!

[mark414]

9. another trend that i have noticed

is that threads that deal with "reverse racism" or that may deemed offensive towards whites are locked, whereas those that may be offensive to those who aren't white are left wide open, and in many cases any post to that thread that "offends" whites will get deleted.

i posted something about this in the ATA forum and was accused of implying that the moderators are racists. i do not believe this, rather, i believe that it stems from a lack of education and understanding. as Karenina and angee have noted, there are a lot of people who know what they are saying and continue to say it.

it is very troubling that all of this is still going on today, all over the country (like this, for example: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=258x1644)

but anyways, i'm glad that i have helped touch you enough that you came and posted here; though you will have to excuse my poor memory as i don't recall what our "altercation" was about? sorry about that. and i know how you feel; i would like to think that i've always been somewhat aware of my power but i know that's not true. when you finally start to realize though, what's going on, it can be a little unsettling, because anything that shakes up your basic idea of the way the world works will do that to you.

this is something that you might like to read (someone else on this forum posted it awhile ago):

http://seamonkey.ed.asu.edu/~mcisaac/emc598ge/Unpacking.html

and the same goes for this guy, tim wise, who is someone you might want to be familiar with(thanks to whoever it was...ahh i can't remember):

http://www.zmag.org/bios/homepage.cfm?authorID=96

[Karenina]

7. American society is seriously racist

among other things. This board simply reflects that condition. As the number of participants increases we see a broader manifestation of the country's sick heart... :shrug:

But GLBT folks are currently in the first line of fire. Twice today I've seen "fags hate god" bits, expressions of their rights as human beings spun as a "slap in the face" to "believers."

It's fucking :scared:scary:scared: out there. Y'all be careful now, ya hear?

[fortyfeetunder]

8. I agree, Karenina.

We are plunging one step backward in the civil rights issues, until we are darned near close to where we were in the 60's. I am just waiting for a cop with a K-9 escort telling me not to vote...

[bobbieinok]

10. wasn't there a major pundit who said after 2000 election: IF blacks

didn't vote, republicans would have won many more states

I perceive3d it as part of a wish/threat list.......get rid of black an women voters (Ann Coulter was on a tirade about how women shouldn't be allowed to vote: all women understand about economics is how to shop the mall

[Brewman_Jax]

11. Unfortunately, that's too true

in too many threads, e.g. the "Who's Rights would you give up..." thread in GD. They invade the Race & Equality forum on (rare) occasion.

Too many refuse to learn and prefer being willfully deluded. They use the same tired, old, Limbaugh listening, BS points. Or, they'll cite articles by the "dancing bears" (Thomas Sowell, Larry Elder, etc., you get the picture) saying that "Racism is gone, everyone is equal, so quitcherbitchin'!" It gets old in a hurry. :eyes:

[GOPFighter]

12. Thanks for reinforcing my belief, Kerrytravelers

Looking back at how I became a liberal and how I've developed my current set of beliefs and it is exactly as you state. Someone has challenged one of my outspoken beliefs, I've replied angrily - defending my position and then thought about it, thought about their argument and slowly revised my position.

The point is, because someone angrily disagrees with your position, it doesn't mean they haven't been affected by your argument. It doesn't mean they are locked into their beliefs. I think every time we post an opinion that meets with strong opposition, we are changing minds. It may be a slow process, but if we keep at it, the brighter, more thoughtful members will come around to our point of view (if we argue our points well and show those who oppose us some respect...which for me is the hardest part!!!)

[Kerrytravelers]

13. You're welcome.

In my case, I made a comment that was, in my opinion, misunderstood from the way I had intended it. It was just an off-handed comment, to me, when I first made it.

But the reaction by a few posters really caught my attention. At the time, I could not figure out for the life of me what they were talking about. Instead of just blowing them off, I responded and read what they said.

After logging off, I still couldn't figure out WHAT they were saying and why they had interperted an off-hand remark the way they had. That got me to thinking that what may be off-handed to me may not always seem that way. I teach children in what is commonly known as an "inner city" environment. So, had I said other things that could be taken in a different way? Or, is my way of thinking not in line with a true liberal mind set?

As I said, it took about a week of thinking. So, I came to the AA group here and started reading their perceptions of what was happening on DU. It made a huge difference.

I'm sure there are others like me who want to understand what the perceptions are. I would hope they would come here and read for themselves the feelings of others and question exactly what they may be saying and not be afraid to say "I need to grow or check the perception of what I"m saying."

Isn't that true to being liberal and/or progresive?