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Orac on Bill Maher:

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SemiCharmedQuark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-17-09 04:14 PM
Original message
Orac on Bill Maher:
Edited on Sat Oct-17-09 04:15 PM by SemiCharmedQuark
Orac really takes him apart:

"Here we go again. The 2009 recipient of the Richard Dawkins Award, anti-vaccine wingnut and lover of cancer quackery Bill Maher, decided to use the occasion of the season finale of Real Time with Bill Maher to answer some of the criticisms that have been leveled against him. All I can say is this: I'm incredibly grateful that this is the season finale of Maher's show. I don't think I can take much more of his moronic anti-science stances being proudly trumpeted.

...

No, what Maher has said in the past was far, far more than just arguing that a healthy diet and exercise can maximize your resistance to infection with the flu or other infectious diseases, which is true but in a trivial sort of way. If that's all Bill Maher had said, then I would have had little or no problem with him. But that's not all that he said or even what he said. Rather, he parroted a lie about Louis Pasteur that he had "recanted" on his deathbed, echoing the same sorts of false "deathbed conversion" stories that circulate claiming that Charles Darwin recanted about evolution. The implication was plain: That Pasteur had doubted germ theory on his deathbed and come over to his rival, Antoine Beauchamp, who had claimed that it wasn't the microbes that caused disease but rather the "biological terrain." While it is true that immunosuppressed or debilitated patients are more susceptible to various infections, many, many pathogenic microbes can still cause serious disease in perfectly healthy people. The strain of virus responsible for the 1918 influenza pandemic, for instance, tended to kill younger and healthier people. Indeed, it got started in the U.S. in an Army barracks, and it doesn't get much healthier than young men between the ages of 18-22 in the military. Similarly, the current H1N1 (a.k.a. "swine flu") pandemic shows disturbing signs of similarly affecting the young more severely. Maher also said on many occasions that he views disease as being due to "aggregate toxicity" from all the "toxins" of modern life and the "poisons" that we ingest.

...
Then Bill goes completely off the rails:

...I do understand the theory of inoculation. Yes, you give someone a little bit of the disease and it fools your body into providing antibodies which fight it. Brilliant! Bravo! Maybe there is some occasions where inoculation is a wise thing to do. I hope not. I hope I would never have to have one because, you know, to present it just as this genius medical advancement, no, it's actually a risky medical procedure that begs long term cost-benefit analysis.


If anyone still doubts that the 2009 recipient of the Richard Dawkins Award (Bill Maher) is anti-vaccine, pure and simple, to his very core the above statement should lay to rest any doubts. Vaccination is not a "risky medical procedure." It is among the safest medical procedures there is. Depending on the disease, it is also among the most effective. Arguably, no medical intervention ever envisioned by human beings has saved more lives at so low a cost and so low a risk as vaccination. His ignorance is just as toxic as any of those "toxins" he fears, particularly his ignorance that vaccination has undergone and continues to undergo long term cost-benefit analyses, safety monitoring, and study.

...

But that's not the worst. This is:

People have said, "Well, Bill, there are people now dying of the swine flu who were in good health." By whose standards? Hospitals serve Jello. They have fast food franchises in their lobby. The autopsy report on Michael Jackson came back, and they said he was in good health. OK, to me he looked a little pale. So, I don't always agree with what Western medicine says means good health.


Holy flaming non sequitur, Batman!


http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2009/10/the_2009_recipient_of_the_richard_dawkin_1.php


I don't have HBO so I didn't realize just how bad Maher was. Yeesh.
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uriel1972 Donating Member (343 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-18-09 01:49 AM
Response to Original message
1. living on the underside of the earth
has prevented me from ever hearing this man. Thankfully. I've heard of his movie and all, but to decry one kind of woo while peddling another, well it sounds like hypocrisy.
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Warpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-18-09 09:54 AM
Response to Original message
2. I watched his interview with Grayson yesterday
and he came out with one howler, that a study has said that a third of all medical procedures and medications are unnecessary.

Well, it wasn't a study. It was paranoid ramblings of that nutcase Gary Null.

Now I know where he's getting his medical wingnuttery. He needs to stop. Null is very well known by Quackwatch, a total crackpot who inexplicably is the darling of the talk show host set, a screwball who can schmooze.

Unfortunately, nothing is going to penetrate Maher's woo until he gets sick with something he can't pretend vitamins are curing.
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TZ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-18-09 10:32 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. Someone needs to tell him
there's about as much evidence for his theory of infection as demons causing disease. I really can't believe in this day and age someone actually does not "believe" in GERM THEORY! What is it, the more stupid you are, the more exposure you get? Unfuckingbelievable.
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SemiCharmedQuark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-18-09 11:24 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. He's as bad as the people he mocks.
He "believes" in something with no scientific evidence. He believes in it just because he believes in it.
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Silent3 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-18-09 01:39 PM
Response to Reply #3
7. It's not that he doesn't believe in the germ theory of disease...
...he just has a ridiculously overrated sense of what the human immune system is capable of. He's got this idea in his head (and he's not alone in this, this seems to be a common staple of woo) that as long as you do all of the supposedly "right things", i.e. eat a natural, organic vegetarian diet, exercise, avoid the "poisons" dispensed by modern medicine, etc., then your body will be ready to fight off practically any disease that comes along.
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Codeine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-18-09 05:58 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. Oh lord.
I'm a vegan and I get lumped in with those goofballs all the time. "Oh I bet you never get sick being a vegan!" Sorry, I'm healthy but shit does happen and I do get ill.

And if I get cancer all these vegetables ain't gonna do shit. Gimme chemo.
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SemiCharmedQuark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-18-09 11:05 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. Me too!
Veg High-five!
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trotsky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-19-09 12:44 PM
Response to Reply #8
11. Well, I must disagree.
And if I get cancer all these vegetables ain't gonna do shit.

Shit is one thing that eating lots of vegetables will "do" quite well. ;-)
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LeftyMom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-26-09 04:03 AM
Response to Reply #8
13. Ugh, I hate that.
Or the goddamn hippies and crystal wavers and fucking Oprah and their "vegan" (usually not really, and if they've got the diet without the ethical system technically they're just strict vegetarians anyhow) temporary "cleanses" to get the toxins out, whatever the hell they are. I'm sure they feel real good once they're not all backed up in the bathroom department, but six weeks of thanking the hummus isn't some kind of miracle cure.

I'm not sure what irritates me more, people who assume that my being vegan means I live on organic salads and never get a sniffle, or people who think it means I live on organic salads and I'm half starved. They're both wrong.
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SemiCharmedQuark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-18-09 11:23 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. How stupid do you have to be to think that vaccination is NOT a medical advancement?
WTF does he think about the eradication of Small Pox? The ongoing effort to eradicate polio? Does he think that happened by accident?
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Warpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-18-09 11:34 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. He's listening to quacks
and I think his main source for quackery from the silly things he says has got to be Gary Null, the darling of the talk show circuit and probably invited to all their best cocktail parties. It's fashionable among that crowd to quote him.

Scientists are rather a dull lot who talk sensibly instead of sensationally, distinctly unfashionable and not to be invited to the best parties.

Quacks, on the other hand, tend to be charismatic, upbeat, passionate, and totally wrong. People with neither the talent nor inclination to investigate their claims tend to accept them blindly.
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TZ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-19-09 07:19 AM
Response to Original message
10. How do these nutjobs explain the MUCH LONGER lives
that we have with modern medicine? And the longer lives in countries with access to modern medicine...For instance in Mali where NIH was doing research on a possible malaria vaccine the average man lives to 45!
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trotsky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-19-09 12:44 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. Sanitary conditions!
Decreased infant mortality! (Which by the way has NOTHING to do with vaccination, thankyouverymuch!)
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