I'm wondering if we need to develop a new moral code?

[Cleita]

Maybe this isn't a subject for this forum but I really don't want to jump into the fires of GD right now. The way I see it, the majority of Americans and much of the world are still deriving their sense of right and wrong from the Ten Commandments and Leviticus, which are woefully inadequate for our modern world. What may have been necessary for kings and religious leaders to control their unruly tribal followers back in the Bronze Age, isn't enough for us. I find the lack of human compassion appalling in this day and age. But no one has been taught in Bible school to be compassionate, but they have been taught not to have sex. Back in biblical times, it made sense. Without any sure means of birth control, keeping young people virginal and denouncing adultery probably made sense to insure that children were raised by loving parents and not abandoned or killed because they weren't wanted. Human rights weren't a big deal either because these were populations who kept and mistreated slaves because they were regarded no better than animals.

I find the unethical business practices of our era to be especially heinous. It seems for some business and corporate types anything goes no matter who gets ruined, maimed or killed in the process because it's business. Many of you who know me from the main boards know that I'm very concerned that everyone have health care for humanitarian reasons. My thinking over the years has been that everyone should get needed health care regardless of their ability to pay. This thinking of course shifted the burden of pro bono health care to the doctors and hospitals. Over the years my thinking evolved to what it is today, that everyone contribute to a health care risk pool according to their ability to pay and they will receive health care and the doctors and hospitals will be paid for it out of the pool. This is the basis of single payer universal health care idea. Yet, the resistance it has been met with in Congress is solely because the profiteering insurance companies have developed a lucratively profitable yet immoral business by denying health care while still making money from it. I accuse them of murder by inaction for every person who dies because they didn't have access to health care and treatment. Usury used to be a crime. Today it's business as usual and Bernie Sanders couldn't get a bill through Congress capping interest rates on the credit care industry at fifteen percent.

I'm curious how we make a new moral code, especially for business, for today's society and its needs. I definitely feel we need to craft a whole new list of business ethics to base our government laws on. I also think government employees and officials need a code of ethics as to what they will make into law and what they won't. I would like every member of Congress, the White House and the Supreme Court have to swear to uphold these ethical codes along with the Constitution when they take the oath of office. PLease add your ideas to this thread if you are inclined to want some change in this area. We have just been through eight years of a criminal administration and Congress who enabled them. The ethical and moral climate in Washington has to change and I'm not talking about sexual misconduct.

Thank you all for letting me vent about this here.

[Kind of Blue]

1. MBA 'Hippocratic' Oath Aims For Ethical Business

There are others who feel the same, Cleita. And here was something that especially gave me some hope for the future of business practices, specifically because it comes from our youths, started at Harvard and now spreading to other universities. It's just a little something that may lift your spirit, and maybe this new way of thinking of business and your fellow man will take hold. I believe it can.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=105077045

[Cleita]

2. That's a start. Let's hope it spreads and takes hold.

Thanks for the link.

[omega minimo]

4. Including the models of companies that have used good practices to succeed

[omega minimo]

3. Maybe we need to reinvigorate the core of most of our existing systems (inc. Democracy)

[Cleita]

5. The Golden Rule of course trumps all because of its universality and

simplicity, but it's also easy to ignore. Sometimes specificity is needed for each situation.

[omega minimo]

6. Okay by "renvigorate the core," I meant

big signs saying, "This Means You" :spray:

[northernlights]

7. Moral codes are by their nature easy to ignore

or find loopholes.

I think "do unto others" is as good as it gets by its simplicity. It's very, very easy to understand. It's pretty free of loopholes or workarounds. And it leads to instant "aha!" It's virtually impossible to think about an action, imagine it being done to you, and not immediately get "empathy."

[omega minimo]

10. It's also true

One way or another, what goes around comes around. Hence the notion of "floating all boats." Now we have many Americans Republiconned into believing that having a healthy, educated public is somehow an extreme expense to them personally.

I like that, "Aha!!" :think:

It's the absolute truth in regards to outsourcing, which is why I got concerned about it back in 1993. If this hand crafted, high quality thing is so cheap and came halfway around the planet, somebody there didn't get paid much and somebody here is out of a job. Was I right?

[Kind of Blue]

8. Exactly. Maybe we should break it down this way:

If you hurt your fellow man for your own profit, it will come back and bite you and everyone else in the ass. How simple do these age-old codes have to get before it sinks in??? But like you said, we don't do much re-enforcing nowadays. Or as Clieta pointed out, the olden days were nothing but heavy duty enforcement. We need to find an ongoing balance for the "do unto others" rule. Teaching civics in school would be a good start, again.

[omega minimo]

9. " Teaching civics in school would be a good start, again." Great idea

Karma or interconnectedness or community or reality -- or whatever one wants to call it, that IS the way the world works, like it or not. If people can be trained to understand that and participate, rather than think they can "pull one over" and succeed as assholes, they're wrong. That's the way things have gone. It's not necessary. It's obsolete. Unless the corporations really do install actual serfitude for those millions unemployed, no one wants to work for bullies anymore.

I practiced the principle, showing and selling artwork, very successfully. Some ideas:

Have a good product to offer. Don't sell crap and spend all the budget on marketing.
Offer something people actually want or need.
Don't try to sell them something they don't want or need.
They buy from you and come back because of your product, manner and the benefits to their lives.

[Kind of Blue]

17. Thanks for the sound advice!

I'll be putting those to use soon. Keep you posted :hug:

[MagickMuffin]

11. My thoughts on the topics you raised

Corporations SHOULD be paying their fair share of taxes. Just think about the revenue it would bring in. Instead Congress has enabled them to "UnAmerican" by allowing tax havens in other countries where they pay little in taxes. A lot of these same Corporations receive Federal Contracts, yes I'm talking about you Halliburton, and then they set up these fake overseas "businesses" which consists of nothing more than a PO Box. This SHOULD be illegal.

If Corporations paid their fair share in taxes this could allow the government to help purchase the expensive equipment that hospitals use. If the government bought this equipment then it would be more accessible to people who otherwise can't afford the luxury or benefits of these procedures. Insurance companies should NEVER be allowed to deny coverage to ANYBODY and charge the outrageous amounts of money for coverage. Again Congress enables them to get away with this practice. Congress could if they only had the Will to do it, pass LAWS against this practice. However, Congress is beholden to these companies, by accepting money to fund their campaigns, which will insure the continuous cycle of doing the companies business.

Corporations should NOT be allowed Personhood. That is just crazy and should be considered Unconstitutional. Corporations ARE NOT people. While they have people that work there it doesn't make the Corporations a person. Especially considering the people who work there may not have the same political views as the Board of Directors. It appears to me the BoD's have way to much influence on our "elected officials" and "WE the People" don't have ANY influence at ALL.

Then we have the Corporate Media which using OUR airwaves to propagate the misinformation. I watched the ABC townhall meeting on Healthcare. It was frustrating to no ends the amount of "questions" allowed by the very same people who want to deny coverage to everyone. They kept mentioning that there was a shortage of Doctors of primary care. Why is that, Is it because the Insurance industry has overstepped the boundaries of what Doctors can practice?!?!?!?


We need Campaign Finance Laws outlawing Corporations found donating to candidates. We need Laws passed to ensure equal time for campaign commercials. The Corporate Media makes WAY to much money off of Campaigns. It SHOULD NOT be this way. I think Campaign commercials should be FREE. After all these candidates are the very people "WE" are suppose to be electing to Representing our Interests, NOT the Interest of Corporations.

We've been Hood-Winked :cry:

[Cleita]

12. Corporations have actually become criminal in their activities even

murdering people in third world nations to do business. Mike Pappantonio on "Ring of Fire" just did a whole expose on Goldman Sachs and they recently have given huge bonus out from taxpaper's money that they received in the stimulus. Halliburton and it's subsidiaries are pure mafia in the way they are run. We have racketeering laws, why isn't our new Attorney General pursuing this?

[MagickMuffin]

20. Yes, Yes, and YES

Corporations ARE the American People now. We are only the illusionary citizens that show up for elections, but we really don't matter in the scheme of things. We don't have ANY lobbyists to lobby on our behave, so therefore WE don't matter to Congress or corporations. Wall Street, Board Directors, Stock Holders ARE the New Americans and the ALL mighty Dollar is their GOD.

Unfortunately, No One would be willing to upset the Status Quo. They love their slumber parties way too much.

[LaurenG]

13. I'm with you on the health care issue and a "new" moral code

I have also started to believe that the only way some people will change is to get a dose of heir own medicine. (I wrote this in GD in a more angry tone) If all the members of congress who are against single payer/universal health care suddenly came down with an illness that bankrupted them, made them so sick they couldn't work yet didn't kill them, they would all be on board to care for all people.

I am really in despair over this issue and I agree we need a new definition for being decent human beings.

[get the red out]

14. Human rights code needed

This might sound criminal to my fellow Americans, but we need to rethink how our "rights" and constitution are applied in light of human rights and the golden rule. There are so many loopholes, in business, in health care (which should be a right not a commodity), and in religious practice. I believe that harm to innocent people is currently permitted under our constitution and that needs to be rectified.

No one ever wants to really face in some meaningful way the multitude of verifiable harms that come from hate speech under the guise of "freedom of speech"; hate, misogyny, virtual slavery and intolerance under the guise of "freedom of religion"; or outright slavery, murder, and thievery under the guise of "capitalism" (with for-profit health care falling under capitalism). We use the term "freedom" to condone the most immoral things a person can think of, actions no one who defends them would ever want perpetrated on themselves or their loved ones. And the word "immoral" is used for sexual behavior only. When my freedom enslaves someone else, how can we defend that?

New morality? Yes, we need this badly! At this point fear of sex is the only moral idea being promoted, and that is an idea that is hardly moral and causes far more harm than good.

Many religious bodies of this country have been co-opted by the Republican Party, and through that association they are polluted by the goals of the corporate powers. Their voices, which may have once called for the right to vote for women, and an end to slavery; now only call for an end to reproductive rights, control over people's sex lives, for torture, and war against non-Christian people. They now call unregulated capitalism "freedom" (as suggested by Limbaugh and Hannity) instead of calling for economic help for the poor as suggested by he who they claim to follow. We need a new source for our moral voice in this country, because the old source has been virtually destroyed.

I just want our country to wake up to what is being allowed and realize that we need to change. Whose freedom is more important, the hate talker's or the person who may be killed by one of his listeners in response to the hate? The cult leader's religious freedom or the young girls kept ignorant of their rights as US citizens and impregnated every year by some "husband" chosen by the cult so they can never think of leaving the compound? Is the freedom of some insurance company to make a profit more important than the very life of an uninsured person with an illness? Which is worth more, the unfettered right to bear arms or the life of a gun owner's neighbor who gets his head blown off after the gun owner downs one too many beers? Freedom? I am sorry, but until the least of our citizens really has his or her right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, we won't have a clue what that word means.

Sorry to sound irritated, I get on a roll with this. :grr: Suffice it to say I agree with the OP.

[Cleita]

15. That's an excellent assessment of what is going on.

Thanks so much for such a cogent post that puts a finger on the core of this problem. I personally would go a step further about the rights of all of earth's creatures. How much right do we have for destroying habitat and making creatures go extinct who probably wouldn't if we weren't around? Again the corporations are the biggest abusers in this regard.

[get the red out]

16. Agree!

I cringe at the destruction of animal homes and the factory farm situation that harms humans and animals alike.

[MagickMuffin]

19. Some points about Free Speech and "radio talkers" and Freedom's in general

The problem I have with Free Speech and "radio talkers" is this, while they have Freedom of Speech, I think that "Freedom" should stop when they step up to the microphone while using the public airwaves. If the radio talkers want to express their free speech then they can do as any other Americans do and blather on to their friends and family. But to give them access to millions of people to spew their hate speech, misinformation, distortions, lies, and propaganda should be off limits.

How many of us can use a megaphone to express our thoughts to millions of listeners?!?!? I would love the opportunity to have that kind of luxury.


Freedom: After the US won our Freedom from Britian, anyone born here was suppose to have Freedom. It was set up as a birth right. However, we always hear how with any war we have fought since then "the soldiers are fighting for our freedoms."

Our Bill of Rights have become obsolete long before the Patriot Act. The Fourth Amendment has been obsolete with the Illegal Search and Seizures practices that have been occurring because of the War on (certain) Drugs. I have done extensive research on Pharma drugs and they CAN are extremely dangerous and deadly. Yet, the Pharma has become the biggest drug pushers with their commercials touting to "ask your doctor for __________________!" included in these commercials are the disclaimers of the dangers these drugs can produce, sometimes with a voice over, sometimes with tiny fonts of text. But hey, they are produced in labs, so there is no REAL danger or harm. Right!

We are told that illegal drugs are so dangerous and deadly that no one should be allowed any where near them. And they can be because of the black market. Timothy Leary, when testifying before Congress warned them of the dangers of the black market and how anyone buying drugs on the black market wouldn't know what was put in them.


You are absolutely correct that there needs to be a drastic change on so many things affecting our Nation.

[southerncrone]

18. My answer to your question is: NO. As you eluded to, we just need to

follow the moral code that we were born with, and stop trying to find it in books (regardless of how "ancient" they may be).

We were born knowing right from wrong. Our "society" & "books" have given us the "acceptance" of doing wrong without feel in remorse. These codes were often to control or manage the masses of people.

My belief is that we need to GET RID OF religious codes, & follow our internal moral code.

[Psychic Consortium]

25. This is true.

However some cannot access their own internal code and
need help and guidance to develop a strong sense of right and wrong. Responsibility, duty, ethics, etc.

[Psychic Consortium]

21. The new moral code is being established as we speak.

By Obama, brick by brick.

Regulation, law, example.

In all areas.

He teaches us what it means to be a public servant, a leader,
a spouse, a parent, a human being.

He is the master teacher.
Many of us know the moral code, he makes it happen.

[Psychic Consortium]

22. You are right. In the new era, all citizens work on a new moral code.

A real one, not one invented by corrupt and self serving leaders.

[Cleita]

23. Thanks for your input, which is always welcome.

You always give us hope for the future.

[Psychic Consortium]

24. We are the future.....

PC cannot get the correct pronoun...
from the future, of the future, in the future.....??

But the future is us, and we are it.
PC knows this to be true.

That is why many keep searching and looking
because little feels quite right.
We are the future time.

(Sorry cannot put this into words easily...
perhaps the rest of you can refine it....)

[Why Syzygy]

26. Corporations need to be denied personhood status.

What an absurd notion! Perhaps a citizen organized challenge to the ruling is in order.

It's been awhile since I looked into this. Was it a court ruling or act of Congress?

[marions ghost]

27. good question

because what we have now is a society based only on legality, not morality.

And it's not working.