Very interesting ..

[Why Syzygy]

xpost from Editorials.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financetopics/financialcrisis/5516536/US-cities-may-have-to-be-bulldozed-in-order-to-survive.html

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=103x456159#top

US cities may have to be bulldozed in order to survive

Dozens of US cities may have entire neighbourhoods bulldozed as part of drastic "shrink to survive" proposals being considered by the Obama administration to tackle economic decline.

By Tom Leonard in Flint, Michigan
Published: 6:30PM BST 12 Jun 2009

The government looking at expanding a pioneering scheme in Flint, one of the poorest US cities, which involves razing entire districts and returning the land to nature.

Local politicians believe the city must contract by as much as 40 per cent, concentrating the dwindling population and local services into a more viable area. (...)

"Much of the land will be given back to nature. People will enjoy living near a forest or meadow," he said.

Mr Kildee acknowledged that some fellow Americans considered his solution "defeatist" but he insisted it was "no more defeatist than pruning an overgrown tree so it can bear fruit again".

[get the red out]

1. I can see it being a solution

Our country may be reaching the saturation point on "development" in many areas. This is much better than leaving decayed sections of city as simply a blight. We could only expand so long, really, this point had to come. In my area there are people that still want to eat up all the beautiful horse farms to create McMansion sub-divisions and sprawling shopping centers, and those people have to be fought at every turn. A huge block of historic buildings was recently raised downtown after a fight in order to build some giant hotel, which the developers now say they can't get the money for. Now we have a block in the center of town that looks like a bomb went off. I look at all these places, from McMansions to our city block of rubble, and see them as instant blight. Nothing attractive about them.

I think we will need to incorporate green spaces and gardens into our living spaces in the future if only to keep feeling like human beings rather than automatons. I wonder if the lack of evidence of the natural world might contribute to depression and criminal behavior. Just a hunch.

[Why Syzygy]

2. Right.

Contrary to some of the replies to the ED thread, I view this project as PROGRESS!
Returning decay to nature? Sounds like a winning idea. We can all use more exposure to nature.
I love it.

[lildreamer316]

8. Exactly!! I am a huge old-house proponent.

Why in the name of all that is holy can people not live in houses that are already built. I understand the need for more housing sometimes, or the want of someone to build to suit,but usually for every new house in a development there is an existing empty house within a mile or two. I also understand that sometimes older houses are too far gone to rescue,but that is usually not the case.

It mostly all comes down to people just wanting the newest and not wanting to do the work. What kills me is that usually the older houses are much better built anyway.

I hate to hear about that historic area that was destroyed. I hope this trend can be reversed soon.

Oh!!! and a BIG thing for me...SPACE BETWEEN HOUSES. If I can see into your kitchen from my bathroom AND figure out what you are having for dinner, we have a problem and the damn houses are too close together. It feels like a mental and spiritual invasion of space to me, sorry. Probably because of the place in which I grew up..lots and lots of trees and space.

AND..FFS STOP CUTTING DOWN ALL THE TREES. Clear out enough space to build and that's all you need. AND trees keep a house cool naturally, saving on energy costs. The benefits of having trees in the yard and even fairly close to the house far outweigh any chance that they may fall on the house.

Sorry, this whole way of constructing communities has irked me since I was able to comprehend what building a house was.

[get the red out]

12. I agree!

We live in an old condo complex that incorporated lots of green shared spaces in the middle of the condo groups. The place has its faults (one being that it used the wrong wood siding for the humidity of Kentucky summers) and my husband complains about the way the condo fees are spent; but I have always gotten a very strange feeling that this is the way future housing will be constructed (without the siding that rots of course, LOL). We have lots of green space and can step outside and interact with our neighbors under the shade of our shared trees.

I think it would be wonderful if it came into fashion to have the most sophisticated housing possible, the greenest possible with just the room people actually need rather than the status symbol being a large, ugly, poorly constructed home so close to the next one that you can hardly run a lawn mower in between! And the more reasonably priced sub divisions with row upon row of identical garages jutting out to the street (can't see the house for the garage) irk me just as much. My sister lived in one of those houses when she first got married and though the house was only a few years old the foundation had cracked through and they had to have that fixed before selling it.

Lawns bother me too. People spread all kinds of chemicals around just to have a carpet of green identical to the neighbors. And let someone let their get a bit too tall and you would think the world was stopping! There is a house I love in a nearby neighborhood where the owners have planted large patches of wild grasses and flowers in areas of their yard. It is just a wonderful looking controlled mess, so much more interesting than a lawn. I am amazed it is permitted in a middle class neighborhood it is so cool.

I am rethinking what progress means. I think if we got back to nature using all the scientific know-how we could muster; we would finally be getting on the right track. As it is now we are stuck on stupid thinking "build, build, build" as more and more sits vacant.

[lunatica]

3. Why is the mindset so strong that something like this idea can be seen as defeatist?

This is a brilliant idea who's time has come. Not only is the blight turned into beauty, but the restored nature can be used to grow crops at a community level which would create jobs. Flint could actually become fully or partially self sufficient if some thought were put into it.

[Why Syzygy]

4. There's some knee jerk...

And one of the replies asked where will they get education and medical care; but had the poster read the article(!), (s)he would have read that those are the two job sustaining fields that the planners are going to incorporate in the new model! Other than that, I can only surmise that many folks indulge in the frozen mind syndrome.

[MorningGlow]

5. 20th century Murkin thinking

Progress = wipe out the "primitive" and put something "futuristic" or at least "new" in its place. That's how we lost a great deal of beautiful old architecture, the Native American culture, and so much more.

I still get :grr: over the concept that the measure of whether the economy is thriving is how many new homes are being built. That breaks my heart--I just see it as wiping out more wild spaces...because you KNOW new houses are hardly ever built on preexisting lots. :(

[lunatica]

6. I think futuristic skyfarming buildings would be great

If you go to the link it shows what each number means.

http://nymag.com/news/features/30020/index1.html

This type of farming would free up millions of acres since the farms are vertical and self-sufficient and can be productive year round. I imagine these sprinkled every so many blocks even in large cities with each providing food for a 10 block radius. They could even have their own bees for pollination. With some real engineering innovation and Progressive thought they could even house whole floors as parks. They would would be business magnets too. Restaurants would set up close by for the fresh produce. Each would create an island community.

Something along the lines of what it would take to set up colonies on the Moon, where everything is recycled and self contained.

[lildreamer316]

10. Yep, see my post above..

..we so agree. I get so upset whenever older houses are taken from us in the name of progress. It was always a pet peeve of mine, and then MY house got taken and now it's a major issue. I want to resuce as many as possible. I hope more people will come around to my way of thinking; maybe this is a first step.

[MorningGlow]

11. OH yeah

We've owned three houses, two of them old (the third was a log cabin built in the '80s). All three were in terrible shape due to neglect (our first and our present house were rentals; the log cabin was just owned by a divorced slob). But even in bad shape, they cleaned up great and had much more character than a new build. I realize that some people like new builds, but to foist hundreds upon hundreds of new houses on people and try to make them think that's what they want...that's where I draw the line.

There are several developments that have gone up one village over from us, and it's awful! They cut down all the trees (probably easier to get the heavy equipment in that way) and crammed as many as they could onto the land, so--as my mother says--"you can pass a cup of coffee to your neighbor without leaving your house", and I've heard that they are terribly built; in half of them the basement floods every time it rains. Plus I think they're very cheaply made and are very sterile. You couldn't get me into a new build if you paid ME (and the prices these go for! yikes!)--between my love of good architecture and my ethics about destroying nature, I'm going to be in old houses for the rest of my life.

I hope this return to nature is the next step as well. I think back to all those apocalyptic predictions about how our cities will be emptied and we'll all be living off the land...I know it's not going to be that dire, but I think this is the "real" version of that prediction. And I like it!

[The Blue Flower]

7. Seems like part of the natural cycle to me

I was born in Detroit in 1949 and remember drives out to "the country" to buy bushels of apples for my mom to make into jars of applesauce. "The country" was a fairly short drive back then. I remember what was farmland close to the neighborhood being bulldozed into parking lots and stores. Makes perfect sense to put things back the way they were to consolidate services.

[northernlights]

9. I was surprised at the many negative responses

I think it's a great idea, too. Remake falling apart cities into greener, more sustainable models, supported by growth industries...and recover some of the land that has been destroyed in the last few decades.

Judicious pruning is good for the tree and for the orchard...

[davsand]

13. I'd love to see community gardens and markets in metro areas.

I have no problem with getting rid of some of the decayed buildings, but I would LOVE to see a time when people had a garden plot where they could grow produce along with a community market where they could sell the surplus.

Locally we have a weekly farmer's market and it is quite the thing. There is so much of a sense of community there because you are out walking around and you actually SEE people. Additionally, there is very much a bond that forms over time with the vendors. When you see these folks every week you get to know them--you KNOW where your food came from.

Access to (hopefully locally grown) fresh produce is a huge issue for a lot of folks in a metro area and a city market would go a ways toward addressing that need. It can be done, and it can have a huge impact in the lives of hungry people. Coupled with free classes and demonstrations of how to cook these products, you would be amazed at how much a "poverty diet" can be improved. (Imagine--you CAN eat a lower amount of salt and preservatives and still be poor--what a concept!)

I actually am in the process of advocating for the local city to help fund a four season market square in one of the empty grocery malls. I'd like to model it after semi-enclosed markets like the Soulard Market in St Louis where it is all year long and vendors actually locate there on a regular basis. I am pitching it as a form of development in an area they have targeted for re-growth.

Cross your fingers. This is a new project I'm putting together!


Laura

[Why Syzygy]

15. That sounds exciting, Laura!

We've got to be about the business of sustainability. The mass consumerism is gasping its last breath.

[NEOBuckeye]

14. I disagree. Bulldozing cities around the Great Lakes Region is extremely shortsighted thinking

Given that so much of the nation's infrastructure and natural resources are located in the Northeast and Midwest, surrounding the freshwater Great Lakes, the cities in these regions should be preserved and our economic policies adjusted to repopulate them, not tear them down.

I read at least two or three articles each week about how cities in the Southwest US are due to run out of water by the end of the 2010s due to massive overpopulation. Phoenix and Las Vegas, beautiful areas that they are situated in, were simply never meant to be inhabited by the millions of human beings that have flocked to those areas within the past three decades seeking endless sunshine and open land. Also, many of the Southern states, particularly Tennessee, Georgia and Alabama, are finding that their reserves don't go as far as they once believed, and are now coming into conflict with each other over what they have remaining.

Needless to say, we are now at a time when practical considerations must trump our irrational beliefs and desires.

We have the Great Lakes, the world's largest reserve of fresh water, right here in the very Midwest and Northeast regions that are being abandoned. The states and Canadian provinces bordering the Great Lakes have formed a compact intended to prevent diversion of fresh water to thirsty, overpopulated areas that did not consider the limits of their own natural resources prior to their wildfire-like sprawl and expansion. Cities such as Detroit, Toledo, Cleveland, Pittsburgh and Buffalo can and must eventually provide refuge for people in need of water, not to mention those who may be fleeing from the more extreme effects of Climate Change and Global Warming. In the meantime, these cities can be retrofitted as "Green Cities" for our 21st century world. Our national policies should be adjusted to support reconstruction and repopulation of these regions, and depopulation of the South and Southwestern US.

[lildreamer316]

16. Another article relating to this subject:

http://www.worldnewstrust.com/wnt-reports/commentary/too-stupid-to-survive-james-howard-kunstler.html

It's posted in Editorials but I wanted to just go ahead and link to the actual article.