Contractor Conundrum: The Saga Continues

[MorningGlow]

Hey everybody, I know you've been waiting with bated breath to find out which contractor I chose--OS or MM. ...Okay, maybe it hasn't exactly been keeping you up at night or anything. :rofl:

But it has been keeping ME up at night! I cannot, CANNOT figure out which one is the correct choice. Now Mercury is direct and...I still have no idea. I realize that I should wait till Mercury gets settled in better, but I really have to get moving on this project. (It's like dominos--first we take care of the house job, then the landscaper can do his thing, then perhaps I'll have a mason put in a small patio of reclaimed brick, but that last bit is just a maybe at this point.

Anyway, I have seen OS painting other houses in the village, but I don't know how much carpentry work they do. As for MM, I left a note in the mailbox of the house where they did some work several months ago, asking the homeowners for their opinion of his work (as I never see them outside to ask them and I'm shy about knocking on total strangers' doors), but they haven't replied.

At this point it's... :banghead: Hm. Perhaps there's something else astrologically that's preventing me from making a decision yet. I dunno. I'm just... :banghead: Halp!

[Matariki]

1. pull 3 tarot cards for each choice

you'll get a clear answer ;-)

[northernlights]

2. sometimes it really doesn't matter...

You may choose one, call and find out they're flat out for the next 6 weeks, so be forced to hire the other. So it may not quite your choice, even though you think it is. Maybe the universe has already decided.

Sometimes it really is a coin toss (or a toin coss, as I just inexplicably typed :think:). No matter who you choose, the same issues will arise. Or different issues, but with the same outcome.

FWIW, I decided on which of the 5 realtors to go with and intended to call today. But I couldn't quite get myself to make the phone call. Looked at my to-do list and decided since I'll be in their neighborhood tomorrow, I'll go in person with sales contract in hand.

Instead, I drove around and looked at a couple cheap local properties. One is an old trailer on a gorgeous piece of land, but the land is not good for my particular needs. The other was bad location.

But just seeing some very cheap listings, and seeing a couple other listings that could potentially work out really helped me start facing my fears of not having enough to either keep going or start over.

So maybe mercury just needs an extra day...

[MorningGlow]

3. That's what I'm thinking (that Mercury is still in process)

I couldn't even bring myself to flip a coin today, let alone make a phone call to whichever contractor I chose. I was actually hoping for one of them to say they were overloaded or something, to break the stalemate, but nothing happened. :crazy:

I must admit I am surprised that the people I left a note for didn't call. Not that they were obligated to or anything, but my note was so NICE and POLITE and everything--I figured I had persuaded them!
:rofl:

Which realtor did you decide on?

[northernlights]

4. the original realtors

the 1st realtor was very nice, very honest, big chain realty for name recognition and extra benefits, but nothing special in terms of marketing in the current market.

the 2nd realtor was the huntress, but I realized after time that if I found her abrasive, other people might too. And I felt she was targeting the wrong market. She really was targeting her generation (1st time buyers/small family) and that's not really a good group for this particular property. And then I found out that on one of the things she wanted me to spend money on up front -- bringing my furnace "up to code" she was wrong. My furnace was correctly brought up to code -- the regulations she cited are for *new construction* not retrofitting existing.

the 3rd realtors (a pair) had the listing when I bought it. I felt they were sincerely shocked when they learned about the land issue. They did a really good job of smoothing it over, which could be good for negotiations and mortgage dealings. They had some good ideas on target marketing, on top of the normal 40+ websites. They're another big-chain realtor with name recognition and extra bennies for buyers. And I realized this morning that they were taking a lower percentage than the other realtors -- about $1500 less.

the 4th realtor was the jerk who I should have thrown out.

the 5th realtor I almost didn't call because their website is very "Christian" and filled with references to god. Then my plumber recommended him and I called. His voicemail ended with "Have a blessed day!" But in person he was actually quite nice and gave me a lot of inside info, some of which led me to go with the 3rd realtors, lol. He was good interpersonally, and gave me good tips on a couple minor *free* changes that can help with the 1st impressions. He also corrected some potentially expensive misinformation the 1st 2 realtors gave me. Although he let me know a couple minor things that aren't right (release pipe off new hot water heater is too high off the ground) he specifically advised me *not* to fix them or worry about them. He also left a new set of biz cards -- he's removed the realtor's "mission" from the back which was a good thing. Their mission had nothing to do with helping people sell or buy homes and was all about building themselves a nice business, lol!

So it ended up between realtor 3 and realtor 5. But I felt realtor 3 had more to offer marketing-wise and was taking less of a cut. Interpersonally, both were very good.

[Celebration]

5. I joined Angie's list today

Because our house needs a new roof and I don't know the names of good roofers. Anyway, now I at least have some names to call. I hope I don't narrow them down to two and then can't make up my mind.

Haven't you asked them for references, like people you can call on the phone?

I don't know. I like using pendulum for yes/no answers but it doesn't work that well for stuff like this (for me, anyway).

[MorningGlow]

6. Well, now, see, we know a good roofer!

Ain't it always the way--we don't need a roof for a while yet!
:rofl:

We've heard good "word of mouth" about OS, from several of our neighbors; I'm sorry that the people I left a note for didn't call about MM. I'm skeptical about asking the contractors themselves for references, because they just give you the names of people who liked what they did. (Mr. MG is even more skeptical--he's convinced they give you the phone numbers of their relatives, who pretend to be satisfied customers! LOL! I'm not that cynical, though!) Alas, I may have to ask them, though; otherwise, I might never figure it out.

I haven't tried divining yet, mainly because I'm out of practice with all my tools. I was hoping for a sign, after I asked the universe, but U's been quiet so far. :shrug:

[northernlights]

7. if you've heard good 'word of mouth' about OS

and nothing about MM, even from the neighbor that used MM, that to me would point to OS. Good, random "word of mouth" is the best reference you can get.

Yes, asking people for their own references is kind of pointless. They know whose names *not* to give, lol.

[MorningGlow]

9. Well...sort of...

:rofl:

This is hard to explain (even if you live around here!) but...we live in a very small, insular village. OS is local (they live in the village) and everybody uses them. But this place is kind of odd (unique?)--even if someone is dead average, fair-to-middlin', but truly LOCAL, people will use them as opposed to going farther afield like we did to get some of our estimates. (I even saw one neighbor who hired a different local guy who, when I made my initial call, couldn't even hold a conversation--he sounded stoned out of his mind!--but he was LOCAL. See how these people think?) So my neighbors wouldn't even think of calling someone like MM, who is located a couple of towns over, about 15 minutes up the road--that's like hiring someone in another STATE! ;) If I mentioned MM, they'd all say "Who?" but not because he isn't getting jobs--it's just because nobody thinks of calling anyone OTHER than OS. (The people I left a note for, asking for opinions on MM, live in a different village that's more "cosmopolitan".)

What I'm really hesitating about is OS mostly does painting, but our job requires carpentry work (build steps, etc.) and I haven't run across neighbors who have had that kind of work done by OS.

Ughhhh... :banghead:

I still think it's pointless, but I just e-mailed MM asking for references. If I call one or two, maybe I can "pick up" any lurking negativity among the praise, if there's some to be found...?

[Celebration]

13. I think asking for references is okay

People use that for hiring people as employees. I realize there are some drawbacks, but you could keep that in mind.

One thing you could do is just hire OS for a small carpentry job, and see how he does. Break your job into pieces, and try one, and then the other.

[MorningGlow]

14. I had been thinking

of hiring MM to do the carpentry work and heavy lifting (steps, siding repair, chimney stack removal) and OS to paint the house after the siding was replaced (they quoted a really good price to paint the siding, which sorely needs it--we can't afford all new siding). That way I could keep MM around to do the bathroom tiles (they sent pictures of tile jobs they'd done that looked good) and other indoor work, yet I could also have OS in the loop (with the painting job) in case MM turns out to be not so good. Mr. MG said that OS would get pissed and refuse to paint the house after seeing that somebody else did the siding repair, but I think he's projecting his own overly sensitive reactions onto these people. (Mr. MG is really into "dead to me" scenarios--one strike and you're out, with him.) I'd like to think they'd be more mature than that (plus more interested in keeping a client happy).

Tra la la continuing to confuse myself...!

[Celebration]

15. my thoughts

Go with MM for the tiling--pictures, GOOD!! I would ask for references specifically for tiling.

Go with OS for the painting, and ask him for references for siding repair. Most handy people that can paint well know how to do siding repair. Make sure, though, by getting siding repair references from him.

Do the steps and other stuff after these things are done.

LOL, this all has to do with the logical part of my brain. NO INSIGHT AT ALL.

Your decision making abilities remind me a LOT of my third daughter, so I am used to dealing with it.

:rofl:

[MorningGlow]

16. Ah, there's the rub

OS gave me a quote for steps, siding repair, and chimney removal (procedure, and price, were almost exactly the same as MM). When I say "running neck and neck" I ain't kidding!

I'm usually a MUCH better decision maker than this. :crazy: Hm. Perhaps I'd better take a step back and try to figure out just what's got me stuck--what's underlying the contractor choice, I mean. It'll probably go back to Mr. MG being relentless with his "I told you so" if I pick wrong.
:rofl:

[Celebration]

8. "word of mouth"

I agree with northernlights. Take that as your sign from the universe.

[MorningGlow]

10. I'm also wondering if the non-answer from the people I left a note for

is also a sign. (If they didn't jump to the phone to praise him, is he bad? Or are they just lazy?)
:rofl:

Anyway, see my post to NL, above, for my continued overthinking of the situation. I know THAT doesn't help! :D

[MagickMuffin]

11. Even tho you left a note and haven't heard back maybe you should

get up the courage and go ahead and knock on their door. Introduce yourself, explain why you left the note (maybe they haven't had the time to respond) and why it is important you find out if MM is the right guy for your project. If you need a carpenter and OS isn't experienced with carpentry then you could be asking for more trouble then it would be worth. Ya know what I mean.

My dad was a custom home builder and I spent every summer helping him build homes, so it is very important to have a competent carpenter. Otherwise you might end up with a mess worse then what you have now. And I wouldn't want that.

Good Luck MG my thoughts are with you :hug:

[MorningGlow]

12. I think at this point I'm hogtying myself with fear

Not :scared: FEAR-fear, but the apprehension that comes from worrying that I'll make the wrong choice and end up regretting it. But I know that inaction is also no good, so I've gotta get on the stick. Hmmmm...

Thanks for the good wishes! They will surely help! :hug:

[mother earth]

17. If you are choosing a contractor check with a local vendor that

sells mat'l to contractors. They know the scoop, they know who does quality work vs. the fly by nights, check with the Better Business Bureau too. This is one time you don't need to rely on the pendulum.
And, yes, by all means ask for references!

[MorningGlow]

18. Good idea, Mother Earth

Not sure who the suppliers are, though. Wonder how I can find that out... I did check the BBB pretty early on: MM gets an A+, OS gets an A-. No complaints registered with either one.

[stellanoir]

19. The Saturn/Uranus opposition is still operational.

Just nuke the place.

Kidding.

You'll figure it all out over time.

*RELAX* !!!

That's an order damn it !!!

Kidding again.

Love ya

[MorningGlow]

20. How did you KNOW Mr. MG wants to nuke the place?!

It's on our list of options!
:rofl:

Thanks for news of the opposition. I figured it might be something astrological; even though Merc is direct, I still feel really paralyzed about this and even about meeting my work deadlines. Sighhhh I just want this house to stop being so butt-ugly, yanno? It's been long enough!

Now where's my pencil. {scribble scribble} "Re-lax..." Good idea! If only I could keep that in mind more often!
:think: :rofl:

[stellanoir]

21. Mercury has a lot to do with clarity of mind.

However, it's retrogradaton (or it's shadow of the retro as it is now) is far more often than most.

The Saturn/Uranus opposition is far rarer.

Saturn rules structures and contracts.

Home repairs are often on going projects and they're as with most homes, always requiring some form of adjustment or modification.

My SIL got addicted to the Home & Garden Network a few years ago. I swear, she musta painted every room all over again more often than most people change underwear. As silly as that was, it contributed to a creative explosion and she's more recently been creating phenomenal artwork which she's been selling and which just afforded she and my brother to have an excellant and lengthy Euro vacation over the past couple of weeks.

These things have a peculiar way of working themselves out.

My beau bought a home that was probably built in the mid to late 1800's in the early 80's. It was last redocorated in the early 70's by someone who only wished that they had done hallicinigins, but clearly did not. Canary yellow and brown funky flowers in the kitchen are somewhat less than appealing or appetizing.

All the homes in his neighborhood have been restored beautifully. His is on the threshold of falling apart. I recently apologized to his neighbors about the condition of his home. I apologized for it being the blight of the neighborhood. They couldn't have been nicer or funnier about it.

I know it's gonna take a decade to fix that place up.

Don't even get me started about my place.

Yet with the housing situation and the mortgage crisis, maybe we should just count our blessings. Or as the sign says in my garage, "bless the mess."

Home improvement is truly an ongoing work of art.

You'll know in your gut when the right situation avails itself.

Till then, maybe just chill.

:loveya:

[MorningGlow]

22. Yeppers, got the same advice from my former elder

She has a house from the...1830s, IIRC. Greek Revival. Gorgeous place. When we bought this house (built 1867, added onto a couple of times in the late 1800s and again just after the turn of the century, we think, judging by the architectural choices), she said "Do NOT expect to get the place looking perfect in a year. Old houses are an ongoing project...and a neverending investment." And sure enough, here we are, 3 1/2 years later, and we've gotten barely anything done. (And we have also found some '60s psychedelia--brown and orange carpet in the kitchen, anyone? accompanied by white, yellow, and green flowered wallpaper?!--but it had been covered up with '80s pastel blah.)

I have to admit that, like your brother's place, ours is a blight on the landscape! Our neighbors have all lived in their (perfect, beautiful) places for 30 or 40 years, so they've had time to make them nice. I need to keep reminding myself of that!

The remodeling I want done now now now is exterior, because frankly I'm embarrassed at the state of our outside right now! :crazy: I kind of want to do it "for the neighbors"!

So....I will try to chill :D but I am itchin' to at least get the back of the house covered up--the Tyvek house wrap isn't a good "look" for us (!)--and get the back steps put in place. Then I want to get the siding painted to at least freshen up the 35-year-old, faded, stained aluminum. That should help a BIT...

SIGH!!! Thanks, Stella! I will try to

[northernlights]

23. analysis paralsysis

MG, sometimes when I get stuck the way you are, I find the best way to move forward is to face the worst. What is the worst that could happen if you choose the "wrong" contractor?

In one case, it seems like he'd be good at painting, not so good at carpentry. So then, you kick him off the carpentry and hire someone else to do that.

The worst case is you spend more money and take longer than you planned. That, sadly, is the life of antiques and projects.

Another way past analysis paralysis is to simply stop worrying about the decision for a couple days. Focus on something totally not about the home improvement projects. 2 days of intense something else.

Although you feel "pressed for time" there really is no rush. Measure twice, cut once...and all that. So take a couple days and get into a book or get into walking or get into window shopping...totally.

Anything so you can come back to it totally refreshed.

Say, on Monday June 7...and not one minute sooner!

[stellanoir]

26. It's not my bro, it's my maybe beau.

My bro's place is pristine. Thanks to my SIL's incessant manipulations. But never mind about that.

My maybe beau has got a toilet on his porch, left there by his dear deceased wife.

I'm threatening it with petunias.

She left the place a total mess.

I perhaps need to chill as well.

[I Have A Dream]

27. I hope that you sometimes sit on it! (You should read a magazine while doing so.)

:rofl:

:loveya:

[stellanoir]

28. I'm not sitting longly on that thing. And I never related to the reading in the bathroom thingy.

Like why pray tell would one spend any more time in there than necessary?

LOL My butt is far too precious.

It's funny. My aunt had a mum who was morally intensely bothered once by my mum planting petunias in one of those bowls that people had to use before people used to relieve themselves in toilets. The accompaning pitcher had broken.

My cousin recently told me that his grandmum also used to say, instead of saying "go to hell" she'd say go to Pawtucket" which is a local funky burg.

That totally cracked me up. It's a beyond aburd way to curse someone.

It's just totally ridiculous.

:loveya: too

and don't at all believe in hell.

[I Have A Dream]

29. I don't go for the whole reading in the bathroom thing either.

It just doesn't seem clean to me. :shrug:

You doing that on his front porch would just be an hilarious thing to see!

:D

[MorningGlow]

31. We have a toilet in our dining room

It's new and untouched, I swear! It's part of the stalled renovations--Mr. MG had been working on the powder room, which used to open onto the dining room (ewww) till we walled up that doorway and instead had it open onto the mudroom. Anyway, Mr. MG took the toilet bowl out of the box to check its placement in the powder room, but I asked him not to install it till I could paint the wainscoting on the walls (as it's a tight squeeze and hard to get a paintbrush behind a toilet tank). He stopped doing the paneling, and I won't paint till it's all in, so the toilet has been orphaned in the dining room. (Especially because MG Jr. appropriated the giant box for a clubhouse, as little kids do.)

It's been in the dining room for nearly a year now. (See why we need a contractor???) We almost used it as an extra seat when my family came to our house for Christmas Eve dinner last year. (I wanted to make my brother sit on it.)
:rofl:

[I Have A Dream]

32. Oh, that's really funny, MG!

My powder room also opens onto our dining room, and there's no way that it can be changed. I agree -- ewww! What were they thinking?!! x(

MG Jr. is going to probably have fond memories of that toilet as he gets older. It will probably be one of the more colorful things that he remembers about his childhood. (When he comes to DU in 15 years and someone starts a thread about weird things about themselves or their upbringing, he'll have the perfect thing to post! :D)

Make sure you get a picture of the dining room with the toilet (with knick-knacks on it, preferably) for posterity.

:bounce:

[MorningGlow]

33. Posterity... posteriority... whatev'!

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

When I was young, I apprenticed at a summer stock theater about an hour away from home, in a very cool village high in the hills south of where I lived. The actors were housed with families in the village (as there were no apartments or anything in the vicinity). One day another intern and I were driving with an actor who was also our drama teacher, traveling between the location for our classes (in town) and the theater (outside of town). She needed to stop at the house she was staying at to pick something up, so we all went in. It was a huge Victorian with a round stone porch--quite the shambles inside, but not dirty. Instead, it was filled to the rafters with interesting things everywhere you turned--birds' nests, driftwood, stones, kids' artwork, homemade pottery, you name it. I was FASCINATED, and right then and there I promised myself that my house would never be sterile--I wanted it to be just like that house.
Moral: Be careful what you wish for! :rofl: I should have manifested that I wanted it to be interesting but WITHOUT a toilet in the dining room. Live and learn...

[stellanoir]

36. His dear departed left him with a dishwasher in the dining room and

a refridgerator in the front hall. They are both in their original wrapping and not plugged in.

She passed on three years ago and didn't have a whole lot of follow through abilities.

He first said "l love you" when we were mutually bitching about some political absurditities and I promised that I wished for "a toilet on every porch."

It was a goof on the tired old expression of a chicken in every pot.

Too silly really.

He said this weekend, "F*ck the putunias." I said, "You shouldn't say that. They can have a wicked vengeance."

[MorningGlow]

37. Dude's a keeper!

:hi: :rofl: :toast:

[MorningGlow]

30. Oops! Sorry for the misread!

Toilet! :rofl:

We moved into this place just after Christmas 2005. We stayed at my mom's house for a couple of weeks while we cleaned the place up a bit. We were working on the house on Christmas Eve day--I was painting MG Jr's room so at least his room would be as close to normal as possible when we moved in (and the paint would be dry so it would smell less), and I informed Mr. MG that there was NO. WAY. IN. HELL. I was going to clean the existing toilet. I can't even begin to describe how foul it was. So we bought a new one, and he put the old one out in the front yard, in the snow. We left it there for about a week. He wanted to leave it there longer, but since the new neighbors didn't know us or his sense of humor, I convinced him to put it in the dumpster we had in the driveway.
:rofl:

[MorningGlow]

24. Update: IT'S ALL CLEAR NOW!!!!!!!!!

:bounce: :bounce: :bounce:

Got it all figured out! AND I found out why I was dragging my feet--I didn't want to have to give either one of them bad news and tell them they weren't hired! {dopeslap}

ANYway, all of a sudden, a few minutes ago, it all went BING! crystal clear. I don't know what shifted at that moment, but it did. I'm going to have OS, the ones who are used to exterior work and painting, do the job I've been talking about (chimney destructo, siding repair, and steps) and have them paint the siding along with it. I'm going to have MM come back and give me an estimate for the inside work. (I'm still going to call the references he sent last night, though. Due diligence and all that.)

DONE AND DONE. PHEW!!!

And may I take this moment to extend my deepest heartfelt gratitude to the ASAH crowd who, as always, came through with support, suggestions, and light--even for the weirdest problems and incessant nattering (er, that would be mine). THANK YOU! :grouphug:

[Celebration]

34. Yup

Tiler for the tiling job. That's the thing that was ringing loud bells for me. Glad you got the same thing.

[MorningGlow]

35. Also

I finally heard from the people in the next village over (the place where I left a note in their mailbox)--they gave the tiler guy (MM) a :thumbsup:--but then again, he did their bathroom. They said that he's a good general contractor (can do plumbing, electrical, etc., and rough work as well as tiling), so I'd feel really comfortable hiring him to do the interior work that needs doing (other stuff in addition to the bathroom).

So in essence it's all working out. I'm going to call OS on Monday and give them the exterior job and give MM the interior work. PHEW!

[HOLOS]

25. A quick method that works for me:

Standing...state the first choice, asking if it is the best/better choice for the situation...then leaning slightly forward, bring/swing arms and hands together, and if finger tips touch/match, this is best choice.