The Gall bladder flush

[FM Arouet666]

I am curious what people think of this and who has tried it. I admit, I am an M.D., not here to attack or discourage. As I have stated before, I have a lot of patients who ask about alternative therapies, I generally lack an understanding. The Internet is full of recommendations and results etc. But I am curious as to personal experiences.

Thanks, and please don't flame me, I have have a fear of fire. :evilgrin:

[stellanoir]

1. Hey Doc !

Since Skinner hasn't posted anything definitive about the appropriate parameters of "alternative healing" threads I'll just PM you about the little that I know about this.

I really appreciate your sincere curiosity about such treatments.

[DemExpat]

2. I have read varying accounts of this.

For Your Information:

My favorite site to consult for information about alternative/complementary healing is Dr. Weil's, also a MD but advocate of integrative medicine - using both conventional and alternative means.

http://www.drweil.com/u/Article/R142/
INTEGRATIVE MEDICINE INFORMATION
What is Integrative Medicine?
The goals and principles of Integrative Medicine:

*A partnership must exist between patient and practitioner that addresses healing on all levels—especially lifestyle factors such as diet, exercise, stress, quality of sleep and rest, relationships and work, as well as the appropriate use of dietary supplements, herbs and other natural remedies.

*Appropriate use of conventional and alternative methods is often the best way to facilitate the body's innate healing response.

*A view of the patient as a whole person requires consideration of all factors that influence health, wellness and disease, including mind, spirit and community, as well as body.

*Doctors and patients should neither reject conventional medicine nor embrace alternative medicine uncritically.

*Good medicine should be grounded in good science and be open to new paradigms.

*It is better to use natural, inexpensive, low-tech and less invasive interventions whenever possible.

*Medicine must focus on promoting health and preventing illness as well as treating disease.





He does not recommend the liver flush...but other means.
http://www.drweil.com/u/QA/QA16253/


Personally,I was having problems with pain in this area a few years ago, and instead of doing the "flush" mentioned, I cut back drastically on my dietary (animal) fat intake, and upped my fiber intake, which resulted in complete relief.
:hi:

[FM Arouet666]

5. Thanks that was very interesting

I had read a lot about the flush after a number of patients asked me about it and wanted to hold off on surgery. The web pages I found all showed pictures which appeared to show stones passed in the feces. While it is true that small stones can sometimes pass and be found in the stool. Those pictured were very large, far to big to traverse the duct coming out of the gall bladder. Your link gave me the answer, it is solidified globules of olive oil.

I might do this just to see the globules, but then again I have too much time on my hands. :evilgrin:

[Eloriel]

16. Weil is pretty conservative

and often, therefore, wrong -- IMO. I haven't checked out any of his pronouncements for a number of years, but what I saw from him when he was just getting popular annoyed the hell outta me. (Wish I could remember some examples -- probably related to pooh-poohing herbs in some way.)

He's an M.D. His training rivets him more in that direction than in the direction of full-throttle natural and holistic healing.

The gall bladder and liver flush routines have been around for many, many years. I never had the nerve to try them myself (being a BIG baby, which is another huge reason I prefer the usually ultra-non-invasive alternative medicine treatments and remedies), but they were recommended by the healthcare practitioner I trusted most -- my former chiropractor (now retired), the one I credit with saving my life. (Fortunately, the young D.C. he chose to take over his practice is thoroughly wonderful too.)

That there IS a Dr. Weil, M.D. is a good thing, no doubt. But I do get frustrated with the narrow focus and having one foot in one paradigm and the other SO firmly planted in the Western medical model. :grr:

[Desertrose]

3. uuummm...whats up Doc..ah sorry - couldn't resist

:hi: ....always wanted to say that :evilgrin:

The gallbladder/liver flush seems pretty unbalanced to me...and a bit extreme.

Logic would seem to tell me that something that has built up over years from poor dietary choices etc etc could not be so easily eliminated by a day (or a few weeks) even of a radical change in eating. I would think that like weight loss...slow and steady changes in eating would be a more balanced or sane way to go about it.

I do feel that most Americans do not drink enough water...we drink way too many sodas(sugar) coffee (caffeine) and diet drinks ( chemicals) and the kidneys and liver have to work too hard to remove the toxins without enough water to clear them.

I also feel the food we eat is way too processed and so far from the living essences that our bodies need to be nourished. Our soils are depleted and the crops grown with chemical fertilizers...not to mention the GM stuff we have no real clue about.

We eat too damn much -see the movie "Supersize It" and I guarantee you will never eat at Mickeyt D's again!!

..and then there are all the pharmaceuticals we take...are advised to take ...ads for the best pill for whatever little thing may ail us pushed on us 24/7.
(Grew up in drugstore family- father & grandfather were pharmacists-I saw from an early age how the big Co's operate way back 40 years ago!)

I do feel that these more radical approaches are not always a good choice...but there will unfortunately, always be people who will try it. It is just a damn shame we do not have healthcare for Americans that firstly, covers everone and secondly gives them more of an opportunity to choose ....

If I were uninsured and didn't have the option of seeking medical or even alternative advice...I might try something thats costs little but may help rather than nothing...

I think lack of health care and lack of common sense may be the biggest problem......

oops...sorry...I ranted...but least it wasn't at you :)

DR

[FM Arouet666]

4. Get it all the time

Nothing much up at the moment. :evilgrin:

Thanks for your input. I agree, we eat far too much processed food. Clearly the American diet is contributing to the high incidence of gall bladder disease. Seems odd that surgeons take out thousands of gall bladders a year. If we evolved to need one, and survived for thousands of years without needing all this surgery. Then something must be amiss.

I also agree with the lack of health care and common sense, a deadly combo.

Peace

[LWolf]

6. I heard about this once recently;

from my homeopathic chiropractor. Along with adjustments, he always checks for imbalances, and noticed a gallbladder related imbalance. He told me about the "flush," but did not recommend it. Instead, he recommended a homeopathic remedy.

I would have to be pretty desperate, and really sure it was the best choice, before I would choke down all that oil. This "remedy" didn't pass either of those criteria!

[loudsue]

7. Hi Doc!! Some personal experience I've had.....LECITHIN!!!

Lecithin is known to dissolve gall stones. BIG doses of lecithin help when there is an onset of symptoms of gall stones, and within less than 24 hours can give relief.

I've had 3 episodes over the past 4 or 5 years, and taking lecithin (I take it in capsule form) has alleviated the symptoms quickly, and has eliminated the symptoms within a couple of days while taking the lecithin.

If you have a patient that has symptoms, suggest the lecithin, and see if you don't get similar results. Since you can be checking on your patients, if it DOES NOT alleviate their symptoms, you will be able to step in with other therapies. But in the meantime, the lecithin CERTAINLY can't hurt them! So, you won't be doing them any harm, but you, and they, may be pleasantly surprised!! ;)

:kick:

[FM Arouet666]

8. Thanks..

I have Gall stones myself, and when it gets critical I will have to inject local into my abdomen and take my own damn gall bladder out, I will be damned if I trust my belly to the other surgeons in town.;)

Seriously, gall stones are caused by a imbalance between cholesterol, bile salts and lecithin. You may be correct, long term lecithin use may have an effect, I don't know. I doubt that it works as quick as you say. The reason gall stones are symptomatic is that they are relatively large, cannot exit the gall bladder, and roll into the duct which exits the gall bladder causing a temporary obstruction. If they permanently obstruct, you end up in the ER with acute cholecystitis, inflamed gall bladder.

The stones taken out are like little rocks, I suspect that they take months to dissolve, that is to say, if your postulate is correct, by altering the ratio of the three components of gall bladder fluid.

Anyway, I digress, I will keep your input in mind for those that wish to avoid surgery, and they are frequent, and will do some research on the subject.

Peace.....

[stellanoir]

9. okay

this is really a silly aside. . .

But I have a friend who has an entirely eccentric family. The patriarch of the family two generations ago, was a Doctor.

He had his gall stones removed and actually had them crafted into earrings for his four daughters-in-law. They were understandably thrilled.

Can you imagine. . .?

This was not an attempt to hijack this thread. Just think it is a really funny story.

[dflprincess]

18. I use lecithin as well and I haven't had an attack in years

(knock wood). However, I was told to take vitamins A and E with the lecithin. I did not take them at the time of the attacks so I don't know how immediate the relief might be.

While my attacks were quite painful, I think I was lucky and must have had small stones. Not to be too graphic, but within a few hours of my attacks subsiding, it was almost like I had been "flushed" and there did appear to be some stones passed.

[leftbend]

10. Dr. Richard Schulze

has several herbal flush formulas including gall bladder and liver. I and several members of my family have tried them with success. Try www.dr~schulze.com/home

[underseasurveyor]

11. I use some of his herbal formulas and recipes

His potassium broth recipe is a great pick me up when my energy is running low. I also use his flush recipes for liver/gb and kidney/bladder. I juice everyday and drink superfood most every morning.

But for a good every 6 to 9 month liver flush I do the raw organic apple juice for so many days followed by the drinking of the icky oil/lemon (as some one else already noted above. I don't mind it) on the 5th night. For me I like the results and I do feel better after unclogging and flushing out my system.

My mother had a mild stroke a few years ago and I went out where they live, had my Dad buy a juicer, organic veggies mostly and some fruit and I brought with me a couple containers of superfood and his intestinal formula. After only a few days my Dad said to me that if he hadn't see it with his own eyes he never would have believed it. My Mom went from barely being able to walk with help, couldn't write at all and words didn't come easily and she was very 'spacey', to, walking half way down the block with minimal support for balance (after about a week), writing letters and carrying on a conversation like normal. Even her regular MD was astonished at the amazing speed in which she recovered. We didn't tell him what we did. Her projected 6 months + recovery was reduced to a matter of a few weeks.

That took a few dollars outta their medical pockets and gave my Mom a much healthier and better quality of life faster and cheaper. Why do you think they still call it medical practice? My own chiropractor tells me he just loves saying that to his own MD brother ;-)

I guess whatever works ay :-)

[Delphinus]

12. leftbend,

I tried your link, www.dr~schulze.com/home, and it couldn't be found. Is the correct spelling listed above? Thanks.

[stellanoir]

13. try this one

http://www.dr-schulze.com/abp_800x600.asp

[underseasurveyor]

14. Or this link too

http://www.mlgww.com/Schulze/Schulze.html

You can also call 1-800-HERBDOC and ask for a free catalog and information so you can look into it more.

[leftbend]

15. sorry

I didn't complete the link, the one posted by stellanoir is correct.

[musiclawyer]

17. I did my first liver flush in December

according to Andreas Moritz protocol. Vert simple, very easy. I got the recommended before and after colonic. I got about two dozen stones. My chronic bloating went away. Period. It works. I will continue to do more flushes until no stones come out as recommended. My candida response test was positive. Afterward, negative. Granted I was on anti-candida diet for many months, but the liver flush clearly put me over the top.

[Cha]

19. I actually did the "Gall Bladder Flush" in the early

1980's and it was a rousing success..

I was on a diet of wheatgrass juice and millet and vegetables for 3 months prior to my trying the Flush and 3 days prior to the flush I drank just apple juice.

I used disodium phosphate ("Di-basic sodium phosphate, best known as a blood buffer salt, has properties which have been shown to be clinically effective in treatment of gallbladder and liver disorders.")
http://www.galaxynutrients.com/products/G5002.html that night and drank lemon juice and olive oil and went to bed with my right leg up towards my chest. In the morning I took a enema and passed many gallstones.

It seems to me that an organ as important as the gallbladder shouldn't be taken out, indiscriminately.

[pacifictiger]

20. some years back when I was in Australia

I had a rather severe gall bladder 'attack' and a friend gave me a book written by an Australian lady doctor. I can't remember her name at the moment, but the book was called "the liver cleansing diet" (if you check on amazon.com it will come up). It is not for gall bladder flush per se, but discusses her findings on liver function linkages to both obesity and gall bladder problems, and has recipies in the back of the book for general liver health - acute cleansing as well as long term maintenance. It has been most helpful for me. (Some 30 years ago a Dr. told me I would probably have to have my gall bladder removed.)