Michael Lutin - Jan. Vanity Fair - "Special Alert: Horoscope U.S.A."

[catzies]

"A planetary configuration not seen since 1776 is coming our way, heralding chaos, revolution, and rebirth. Let the stars guide you through the coming storm."

Whoa. :wow: This is a great read:

http://www.vanityfair.com/culture/features/2006/12/lutin200612

[NMDemDist2]

1. yikes! but it *was* a good read and explains a lot eh? n/t

[I Have A Dream]

2. OK, this article just makes me want to...

:hide:

I hope that our future is not as bleak as the article says. Universe: Please, please don't let the US get even more conservative. :cry:

While reading this, I kept wondering about the Mayan calendar and the year 2012. How does that fit in?

The important thing to remember is that we're here at this time for a purpose, and regardless of what else is going on, we've still got work to do. I'm going to just keep trying to clearly envision the world that I want.

Thanks for posting this, catzies. Very interesting!

[SeattleGirl]

3. Wow! That is one amazing article!

Kind of scary, but not surprising, given the path this country has been on. In 2025, if I'm still alive, I'll be 76 years old. Guess I'd better think about joining the Raging Grannies.

Oh, and THIS sentence from the article is the understatement of this AND the last century:

(Incidentally, America began the war in Iraq when the sun was at the end of Pisces—a perfectly moronic time to start anything.)

[stellanoir]

4. In as much as I really adore all that Michael does. . .

and think he's a total hoot please consider this:

Though by far, most astrologers use the Gemini rising Independence Day chart, there is another far lesser known theory. It was put forth by David Solte who is no longer with us in form. It was his life's work really so I'm always compelled to share it since he passed on.

He was certain that though many feel the Declaration of Independence was when our country was formed, that was when we merely separated from England. It was a statement of intent and some historians have stated that many of the signatories didn't even see it or sign it for several months. Also, the Revolutionary War was still raging at the time.

David prefered to use the chart for when the Articles of Confederation was signed (November 15, 1777 7:52 am LMT, York PA) because, according to him, that was when the nation really came into form.

Even though I don't align myself with sun sign stuff for the most part, America has always seemed far more Scorpionic than Cancerian to me. Check out Jupiter in Leo in the 9th, Uranus in Gemini in the 7th, the Moon at 29 Taurus in the 6th near the descendant, Mercury conjuct Saturn in Scorp, Neptune on the midheaven in Virgo.

Just sayin'. . .

[I Have A Dream]

5. Very interesting to think about, stella. Thanks for mentioning it. n/t

[Delphinus]

6. Hmm ...

Stella ... what do you see for 2007 using the 11.15.1777 info?

[davsand]

7. Stella, can you explain the difference that chart makes in the outcomes?

Forgive me, but I'm just not too strong with Astrology. Can you give me some idea of how this other chart looks?

Is this chart you are talking about indicating the potential for total collapse of the entire nation? Does it indicate that maybe the US will clean up our collective act and emerge a "kinder gentler" nation?

I dunno, I found myself with a strong desire to become an Ex-pat when I was reading that Vanity Fair article. I just can't get past the idea of living in such an extreme repressive nation that I am not free to stand up for what I think.

:scared:


Laura

[catzies]

8. Thanks for that info...what do you think a chart based on that would say

compared to Lutin's reading? Another perspective could only be helpful.

[bianca2001]

14. DARN IT , STELLA!!!

Like you, I always felt that the USA was more Scorpionic than Cancerian,
so I favoured the Scorpio Rising Theory. But even that did not do much
for me......

You just gave me some very welcome news, can't wait to get to this new
chart!!!


During the '04 Primaries, somebody called into C-Span's Washington
Journal and 'declared' that Governor Dean could NEVER become president
because he was a SCORPIO.....

As a great admirer of the "Good Doctor" (shucks, I'm a rabid Deaniac!),
I can already tell that the Sun of this chart is smack-dab conjunct
HIS sun!!!

LOOOOOOVE ITTTTTTTT


Stella, you're the NOIR gift that keeps on giving....

[Why Syzygy]

17. that's an easy reason to like you

Deaniac.. mmmmm :D

I still believe we need a doctor in the House!

[Why Syzygy]

16. Really glad to see this disenting view

I'm not all that sure Scorpio is way better .. but when I looked at that article and thought Cancerian, I was a bit downcast.

I'm going with you and Michael that we, as a nation, are much more Scorpian.
That doesn't necessarily put us in a better ball park. But, I would think better than the Cancer.

Although, I believe, as taught, that Betsy Ross was our matron. And we got together when the red, white and blue showed up. :patriot:

[bianca2001]

19. US chart for Nov.15,1777

I just did a quick check and progressed and directed it.

Before I go any further,I'd better explain why I am on this so earnestly.

The morning of 9/11 my older daughter and her husband had left Canada
(just north of Niagara Falls, Ont.) where they had visited with my
mother and the rest of the family, roughly one hour before the first
plane hit the towers. In those days, nobody bothered to ask what the
flight # was or what route they had taken to come home, one just took
the cheapest flight....

To make a long story short, it took me five hours to finally find them,
safe and sound, stranded in an airport in Pennsylvania, where their
plane had been ordered to land. I won't tell you how long it took me
to get over the trauma.

When I finally got around to checking our charts, it was easy to find
what happened. For me Mars at 4/5 of Capricorn was the trigger
and it certainly looks so in our charts. Not so in the 'offi-
cial' US chart.

Well, I finally found it in this date's Progressed Chart. Mars conj.
5 Capricorn 5th house cusp opposed Sun 5Cancer. Of course, Pluto
12Sag opposes natal Uranus here, too.

[Gloria]

30. I'm with you, stellanoir...

[ricochetastroman]

31. USA Chart

Hey Stella

Thank your for the info and insight. I have not studied that chart but there are many to look at. I found it interesting and also when doing charts like these (and for businesses, etc.) strongly believe that these "entities" have several birthdates. One could even trace things back to Thomas Paines' early revolutionary documents. I believe each tells a different story but it is only after lots of events and lots of study does one appear to dominate.

Given that transiting Neptune has crossed our critical Moon in Aquarius in the chart in my newsletter, it totally corresponds to how Bush has just about ruined this country for good. At least in terms of the perception of the USA (10th house.) It is very hard if not impossible to keep an eye on all of these charts but it's good to know of the one you stated especially because of the accurate birth TIME. I will keep an eye on it in the future.

Happy NOOYeer

Rick!:crazy:

[stellanoir]

9. woh I feel like I just threw an astro grenade into this thread ad ran away.

Whoops & Sorry.

I'll compare the charts but I'm on my way to a gig so I'll do it as soon as I can. In the interim maybe another astro head will chime in.

But briefly, something to consider is that I'd reckon that well over 95% of astrologers and probably 99.9999999999 % of Americans align themselves with and reinforce the belief of July 4.1776 being our national birthday. That belief only empowers the chart for that day.

Kinda like all those fear oriented Christians literally interpreting the book of Revelations and armegeddon. e-gads.
They have no clue that they are empowering a nasty (though not necessary) "eventuality."

So maybe we should start having parades and fireworks and BBQ's on Nov 15th to counter the gloom that Mikey's predicting. :)

[Why Syzygy]

18. just a suggestion

when you meet these people who are soooo sure that Revelations is the end of us, as written,
like with the stinging things and all that? (I know a couple or two dozen). ..

Please tell them. No, there have been intense studies, and many books written, and if one looks at the Evidence, there is no reason to assume this is history in the making. aka 'prophecy'

I'm pretty sure the chart doesn't spin that way. Does it? We may meet downfall. Due to the belief in it.

This is the dangerous thing about these people. And I have several in my family. They contend that the end of man will be brought about by man. You are starting with a double negative. They pretend that they know 'logic'. They do not. They use circular reasoning and evade obvious discrepancies, and make up the rules as they go along to discover the ANSWER! Try that on a math exam.

[catzies]

26. "We may meet downfall. Due to the belief in it." so true.

I too know people like that.

It's like "The Rapture©" is their exit strategy.

[Why Syzygy]

27. And they want us to take the same exit. n/t

[LaurenG]

10. I really didn't think this interpretation was so bad

Luckily for us, the horoscope of the U.S.A. is strongly influenced by Venus and Jupiter, so we'll never go totally broke or hungry. We will, however, have to play ball with the rest of planet Earth as we never have before. From now on it's cooperate, or else.

No one is really to blame. We've brought ourselves to this crisis, through a combination of individual freedom and economic gain, as well as a blind, isolating grandiosity. America is a fabulous place to live: you can come here, think up something you want to do, and be successful at it. But we've gotten fat and we've gotten lazy. So don't blame George Bush or Bill Clinton or any of the elected officials in Washington. A country gets the leaders it deserves, and when we're ready to rise from the ashes of a fallen empire, we will find the leaders to help us do so. It will happen, but not in 2008. We have to go through the Pluto transit first.

I don't think pluto transits are that horrible for one and we are ahead of the game in that many of us have been expecting things to get a bit tough between now and 2012.

My own inner take is that this won't be that much different than what we as democrats have already been going through. We already know how it is with our government, so no surprise there, right? Also, I am very willing to cooperate and be friendly to the rest of the world, who of us here isn't. It sounds like good news to me, it just might get a bit bumpy but we're used to that.

[bianca2001]

11. Michael Lutin's Article

Sally Cheyne MacDonald of Astro World has this to say about this
article and I agree with her:


".....astrologers are very concerned as to the outcome of Pluto's first
transit through Capricorn since l770 and there is no doubt that problems with corporations will be front and center just as they were in
the 1770's as will the severe restrictions on our forefathers that drove
this country to a revolution. Pluto in the 7th House of America's solar chart indicates power over us from someplace, and Pluto in
America's natal 2nd house indicates a restructuring of our values. I am too hopeful an astrologer to believe that the worst will befall us but we may think it's the worst because it will be different than what we had. I just don't see it quite as dire as painted in this article,
there are always balancing aspects.

By the way, the constitution will be re-written."

[LaurenG]

12. "power over us from someplace"

China (we owe them sooo much $) maybe or again Saudi Arabia. I think the Saudis already have power over us. Are they the root of the "illuminati" spoken of so often?

[bianca2001]

13. You'll find some interesting

leads about this in the postings of the last couple of articles at
Astroworld.us (Sally C. McDonald's site). Also read carefully Matthew's
references to the Illuminati. You'll get a better picture of Who's Who.

Also Google <Leo Wanta>

[bianca2001]

15. OHIO BLUE

Post #13 was in answer to your Illuminati question

[LaurenG]

20. Thank you bianca2001

[uberblonde]

21. The reason most astrologers use the July 4th chart...

...Is because it's the one the Founders planned.

http://ericfrancis.com/issues/0307/full-moon.html

In 1690, the Chapter of Perfection, an esoteric astrological community in Germantown, Pennsylvania (now part of northwest Philadelphia) was founded by John Kelpius.

Grounded in the work of European Rosicrucians and Freemasons, the group was an offshoot of a secret order in London called the Masonic Rite of Perfection, which involved John Jacob Zimmerman and Jane (Ward) Lead, former members of the original Philadelphians, a mystic cult inspired by Jakob Boehme in Germany.

Franklin, Thomas Jefferson and George Washington were all influenced by those same esoteric astrologers.

"Much of their work centered on selecting the 'best times, ideas, designs of seals and monuments, to initiate activities that would lead to the creation of a nation powerful enough to withstand the attempts of Britain, the world superpower, to regain its prized colonies'. Egyptian magic is evident." ("Washington D.C.'s Astrological Secrets").

David Ovason, author of The Secret Architecture of Our Nation's Capital (Harper Collins), says Washington D.C. is unique; much of the city's original design is firmly grounded in astrology. The planners followed ancient Greek and Egyptian mysteries by aligning the city with a constellation's fixed stars, he says. His book focuses on the 1791 planning of the city's Federal Triangle (the Washington Monument, White House and Capitol building) and the alignment with the three main stars of the constellation Virgo.

In Dell Horoscopes' "Ben Franklin: America's Astrologer-General," Lina Accurso writes:

"Only in books on astrology and its history are you apt to discover Benjamin Franklin and Thomas Jefferson (another all-around philosophical and scientific genius) conspired to have the Declaration of Independence adopted on July 4, 1776, rather than on July 2, the date urged by in-a-hurry John Adams. July 2, the Moon was in one of its weakest signs, Capricorn, where it would oppose the Cancer Sun, Mercury, Venus and Jupiter. By July 4, the full Moon was safely into Aquarius and well out of opposition to the Sun. Coincidence, historians would scoff. Smart logical planning...

"One of the few 'civilian' books to mention Franklin and astrology on the same page is an old one, Franklin, The Apostle of Modern Times, by Bernard Fay (Little Brown, 1929) To quote him at some length: "Astrology was very much in vogue...It occupied an important place in business, agriculture and private life. Astrology was employed in determining the future of newly born children. The date to choose for a hunt, the propitious period for sowing seed and gathering grapes, the opportune moment for the departure of boats...Wise, serious, and pious people also believed in astrology, for as late as 1728 candidates for Harvard discussed such topics as these: 'Do medical herbs operate by planetary power?' or 'That the heavenly bodies produce changes in the bodies of animals.' And on the eve of the Revolution in 1777, the faculty proposed such subjects as these: 'Is a comet which only appears after many years a foreshadowing of divine wrath rather than a planet that appears daily?'

"Everybody turned to the astrologers, and the publishers of almanacs had an immense public. These little books were the faithful mirrors of the preoccupations of the times."

[I Have A Dream]

22. How interesting! I love the historical information.

Thanks, uberblonde.

[Why Syzygy]

23. Thank you

if only I would think to look at Old Farmer's Almanac before I get a roommate!

My granddad was a water douser (witcher). A master gardener. He said, if you dig up a well on the low moon, you have to put more dirt in than if you dig on the high moon. It was a mystery to me. Wish he was still here.

Of course they used magick.

I've been thinking a lot about Egyptian magick, which is where Jesus went when he was two y/o to show up 30 years later telling everyone else what to do.

So what do the Egyptians teach? They are not part of the current day strife, are they. So, I'm thinking they have a message for the rest of us. If we can get there. aka . Understand.

Christians don't have a clue! Allah is nice, but out to lunch, I guess. I'm looking for a God that has an Answer. That's why Egypt came up in mind.

[stellanoir]

24. Working on something else right now.

Will respond at length ASAP.

Wohfully sorry for the delay.

Have all sorts of people in crisis right now.

[villager]

25. So it really gets heavy around the time the Mayan calendar ends, eh?

And I wish this was less than a 19 year process we were talking about...

[stellanoir]

28. Michael's daily fix for today

Daily fix

20 december

THE BIGGEST ISSUES FACING SOCIETY NOW AND OVER THE NEXT COUPLE OF YEARS

WILL BE THE ISSUES OF CHURCH AND STATE

THINK YOU DON'T HAVE YOUR PREJUDICES?

THINK AGAIN

ISN'T THERE AT LEAST ONE GROUP

YOU HAVEN'T CALLED A WICKED NAME WHEN NOBODY WAS LISTENING?

new moon with pluto at the end of sagittarius

in another few months pluto will leave sagittarius

and it is between now and september

that we will see the culmination of that transit

racial predjudice

cultural suicide

and religious fervor

will reach a pitch of absolute madness

political correctness new levels of absurdity

and rabid fundamentalism new heights of radicalism

the hypocrisy that has hidden between

clerical vestments will not only peek out

but cloaks will be stripped away completely

religious stories, tales and yarns

accepted as historical fact

will not only be challenged

but exposed as pure fantasy

and the old paradigms
in which many people found solace and peace

from anxiety

will crumble away

and new forms of belief will have to

find their way into human consciousness

Sagittarians themselves, sick of everybody and everythng

will challenge not only themselves

but all authorities

Jurisprudence and laws of the land

will be overthrown

as the letter of the law

must become the spirit of the law

in America this transit began back in 1994

with the oJ Simpson trial



SAGITTARIUS IS THE SOURCE OF ALL YOUR PROSPERITY

AND ALL YOUR HOPE

IT PROVIDES THE MOMENTUM FOR EVERYTHING YOU ACCOMPLISH

BUT YOU HAVE TO COME FROM

A PLACE OF TRUTH AND JUSTICE

AND YOU CAN'T BE FALSE THERE

ALL LIES ARE REVEALED UNDER PLUTO IN SAGITTARIUS

TRUTH MAY BE RELATIVE

AND IN THE EYE OF THE BEHOLDER

BUT YOU'D BETTER NOT LIE

YOU'D BETTER NOT POUT

YOU'RE BETTER NOT LIE

I'M TELLIN' YOU WHY

PLUTO IN SADGE IS COMING TO TOWN

[NJCher]

29. Interpretation is off

I read this awhile ago but something's not right. I can't quite put my finger on it but I think there is a severe misinterpretation here. Just my two cents, FWIW.



Cher

[Cha]

32. Interesting! I think I'll still

blame the media for foisting bush on us, though.