What if you are not into clique mentality ...

[Why Syzygy]

I've known a few hermits, and I could never adopt their lifestyle. But when I look at my troubles with individuals, as long as I can remember, it seems to be due to the fact that I don't fit a mold.

I'm not interested in getting in a huddle and gossiping against another group, or pretending that we are somehow superior. I practice my spiritual stuff solo, but do enjoy so much input of other practitioners. I can hang with geeks one minute, mystics the next. Party people (for a short time), then academicians.

But, the splash hits the fan when one of those groups (not mentioned) decides you are poison, an outsider. Doesn't this have a much broader application too? To the world at large? Even though I reject their mores for myself, it still hurts being rejected. Sometimes. Having community is very important. I love this forum, for example. Am I the only one who notices this? This method does lead to lonliness at times. But that may be better than the frantic efforts I've seen some take to keep all the sheep in the fold. Just wanting ideas on these thoughts.

[I Have A Dream]

1. This is so weird. I was very seriously thinking of posting something...

similar yesterday but talked myself out of it. I very much understand what you are saying. I also thought about the fact that this group is clique-free, in my opinion. Everyone here has friends and people who are interested in similar things, but I've never once seen anyone exclude anyone or gang up on anyone. This is amazing to me!

I had something happen yesterday that got me thinking about it. Maybe something was in the air.

:hug: to you, votesomemore.

[Why Syzygy]

5. Last night

I ran across a myspace site for someone who was my roommate for a brief time. I introduced her to a man, and then there was no space for me. It made me a little jealous to see the pics of her and her new dude (thank you votesomemore).

My relationship problems are caused by the clique from where she came from, so that makes it stand out for me. If you feel like writing about your stuff, please do.

[I Have A Dream]

6. I'm just hypersensitive. I go to great lengths to not put myself...

into situations that will make me feel the way I did yesterday. Sometimes it's not possible to avoid them, and then I suffer.

It's been a long time since I did this, but I was actually pleading with the Universe to let me know that I was loved. (As luck would have it, my husband and my closest real life friend were both out of town, so I felt quite alone.) Intellectually, I knew that I was overreacting, but that didn't make it hurt any less. I don't think that what happened to me would bother most people, but, again, that didn't make it hurt any less for me. There is obviously some lesson that I'm to learn in this life, and I hope that I do so that I don't have to be this sensitive in future lives.

(I'd go into the details, but it just sounds pathetic when I think about it, so I'll leave it at this.)

[Why Syzygy]

7. I have to believe

that is exactly what these times teach us. To rely on ourselves and our part in the Universe. We are part of the Universe. I don't know why it is so hard to get a grip on that concept sometimes .. other times it just melds. I truly believe that is our lesson. We are Universe. Universe is Us. But dayam does it hurt sometimes. I'm glad you're feeling better. Hope you are back in the arms. Physical reality is very special. It makes a huge difference in my life to be with those I love. Aloneness is a delusion. I believe that with everything I am. But it doesn't FEEL that way. Yet.

We keep on ..

[I Have A Dream]

10. Thank you, votesomemore.

I'm OK until the next time it happens. :cry:

[u4ic]

80. You are

:loveya: :hug: :loveya: :hug: :loveya: :hug: :loveya: :hug: :loveya: :hug: :loveya: :hug: :loveya:

[I Have A Dream]

81. You made me cry, u4ic! (In a good way.)

:loveya::hug::loveya::hug::loveya::hug::loveya::hug::loveya::hug::loveya::hug::loveya: too, my friend.

[Cleita]

2. Don't feel alone. I go my own way as well and it's often

lonely, but it also keeps me free from influences I don't want.

[lildreamer316]

3. Same here.

Fortunately; hubby and I are a wonderful match; and he is my very best friend and companion. However; I suffer from lack of good female friends; and lack of a social circle in general. This is especially hard for me as a Leo. I refuse to compromise; however; which is why I am here so much.

[Why Syzygy]

4. I'm Leo too ...

And have moved a couple times the past year and haven't gotten my circle set up. I willingly left my old one behind, though I still keep in touch with a couple of them. RL women seem to be the ones who have been the most hurtful to me the past year or so. I lost one I had since jr. high due to her loving B*sh. And another 7 year friendship. And one I thought was a friendship match. But still have a couple of long term supportive female friends, who are so precious.

No comprimise. Good point.
Cherish the companion.

[LaurenG]

8. I think it's very important for all of us to be aware of something

although this doesn't make it easier. Once people are on a higher path (or even as children those who are meant to be on a different path). You will feel that you are all alone, or an outsider. Not all the time but about things and studies that are meaningful to you. You aren't really alone but you are energetically vibrating at a very different rate than most people around you. You will most likely be misunderstood and labeled or just shunned. Not because of anything you've done but for unconscious reasons. You are different and others can feel it. It's part of the "enlightenment" process. It's much more complicated than this and because many factors come into play it can be a long dark night of the soul. It can also come and go.

Try to be conscious of all the little lessons and try not to take anything personally because it's not personal. Just embrace the information, try not to judge and get in here to get your love. I know that each of us is on a slightly different path to reach the same goal. We may even be on different levels of learning but somehow each one of us understands that we are all on a very similar mission.

I have a message from the Universe for all of us, We Are Very Loved! We are very valuable, we are sorely needed especially now.

[I Have A Dream]

9. Thank you, OhioBlues.

This is, hands down, the hardest thing in my life. I feel that I'm supposed to overcome something here (maybe ego), but I'm not even close. The weird thing is that I've joined spiritual (not religious) groups in real life thinking that it wouldn't happen there, and I feel just as isolated in these situations as I do in everyday life with non-spiritual or religious people. (Don't get me wrong, I have friends in real life to whom I feel that I could entrust my life, but I don't understand why it's such a rare thing to find someone with whom I completely click.)

The learning continues! Time to put on the happy face again. :)

[hippiechick]

11. I tend to be hermit-ish ...

... despite my chart saying i should be a 'spotlight hogging' Leo.

I have always hated clique's, leaned toward the 'anti-cliques' in school and have very, very few close friends. I honestly prefer to spend my free time alone in the woods with my doggies than with a cadre of cackling 'yes men/women'.

From my admittedly jaded perspective, some people need to be part of a clique out of low self-esteem/insecurity, the need to 'belong' to something (they see as) bigger than themselves, and an aversion to making their own decisions.

:shrug:


I just don't think I'll ever see them as a positive, and am especially glad that the clique-ishness of certain parts of DU haven't invaded this little corner. O8)

[Delphinus]

12. Although I'm a Cancer, not a Leo,

this paragraph could have been written by me:
I have always hated clique's, leaned toward the 'anti-cliques' in school and have very, very few close friends. I honestly prefer to spend my free time alone in the woods with my doggies than with a cadre of cackling 'yes men/women'.

[Coyote_Bandit]

13. I could really enjoy being a hermit

As is, I tend to be reclusive. Always have been.

When I was very young a sibling died suddenly in an accident. In addition to the trauma of loss I had some unusual spiritual experiences at the time (to me anyway) and so I felt very different from my peers from a young age.

I was raised in a rural area about 20 miles from the nearest small town (and school). All the other girls close to my age had moved out of the surrounding area before I reached the age of 12. I was 19 or 20 before I had my own transportation. I did not participate in a lot of the activities that my peers did. It is not something that I regret. I was the kid in high school who was largely unknown - and unnoticed. Again, it is not something I regret.

I have always been very independent. And a bit stubborn. Something of a free thinker. And introspective and inquisitive. I think that people watching is fabulously entertaining. Interacting with a lot of folks is quite another matter. It wears me out. I have always had friends - but only a few that I would consider close. I like it this way.

If I could do anything I wanted to do I would move to a remote area, build a home that is energy efficient and self-sustaining, and earn a living as a writer and social commentator. That is a fairly reclusive lifestyle.

While I am not unhappy about the social implications of being a bit reclusive, I must say that it has done nothing to advance my career or employment status. I don't have a large network of professional colleagues. There have been times when my work was unnoticed and unrecognized. And there have been times when I would have benefited from aggressively pursuing some acknowledgment or personal relationships that carried professional implications.

Personally, I have never had a lot of problems and conflicts with individuals or cliques. I think that is probably because I have always been something of an outsider - at least from my own perspective. I've never tried to be anything else. I've limited my close relationships and in many ways I feel like I have chosen my friendships - and with them my community. Through the years I have developed new relationships and I have let others go. Most recently a friend of some 20 years relocated to another state. I let her go and have not sought to maintain the relationship. Several years before she moved she had become enamored with the philosophies of Ayn Rand - and then with the Republican party. There is both a literal and a philosophical distance between us that has made it easy to allow the relationship to diminish. Though I do wish her and her family well.

Just my thoughts.....

[LWolf]

14. I could be a hermit in the blink of an eye,

If someone would just pay the mortgage, deliver groceries and clothing, and keep the power on and the propane tank filled.

I have friends; I am a true lone wolf, however, and have to work hard to maintain just a few friendships. Everyone else needs more time and attention than I do. I'm happy to seek out a social situation once a month or so. If I didn't have to work, where I am immersed in people all day every day, I might want to socialize twice a month, who knows?

The best social gatherings I ever attended used to be organized by one of my very extroverted friends who loved to gather people around her. Once a month she hosted "girls night," where anyone who wanted to could show up at any point in time. No kids, no men. Potluck; bring and share. Anywhere from 5 to 40 people might show up. Once at her place we could socialize, or not. Sit in the hot tub, or not. Swim, or not. Play pool, or not. Watch tv, or not. Listen to music, or not. Engage in various on-going conversations, card games, etc., or not. Someone would always show up with a massage table and spend some time sharing that talent; others brought other similarly nurturing things to share. If you wanted to crawl in a corner and watch the world go by, you could. If you wanted to be the life of the party, ditto. Or anything in between. Go home when you are ready, and if you made too many mudslides or drank too much wine, you could crash for the night right where you were.

That's my kind of socializing; my kind of group. Who needs the rest?

[Why Syzygy]

15. That sounds awesome!

My personality type is INFP (introverted, iNtuitive, feeling, perceiving). Supposedly this type is only 10% of the population. I'm very close to extrovert, but not quite. Need lots of time to myself to recharge, but do enjoy the company of fine people. Have no patience for bores or rightwingers. I have a friend who is a true extrovert and I could not imagine keeping her social schedule. She and I maintain mostly via email, with ocassional lunches. We've known each other for 20+ years and I just recently moved to the city she and her hubby relocated to 8 years ago. Just a turn of fate.

I like the things ya'll are saying. Thanks for all the insight. I LOVE THIS FORUM!

I never got caught up in cliques. Sometimes it meant, in work situations, that I wasn't 'in the loop', but I did my job, which I never saw as including office politics, etc. Networking is important and I always enjoyed professional lunches with a speaker to teach us new information. I guess I got caught up in one last year, briefly, because I thought in order to have my man, I needed to adopt his clique. That was such a mistake. They have done nothing but cause problems. A big stroke of Independence would have served me much better. Lesson learned.

[DemExpat]

21. I am an INFJ as well as a Pisces

and also have just a few very good friends who I must also be careful to keep the contact maintained with.....I am happy by myself and with my young dog - with her and walks in the parks and woods every day (with contact with other dogs and their owners) I have more than enough social contact to make me happy.
My husband and 2 grown children are around a lot in the evenings.....:-)

I need to seek contact though each day - otherwise I find myself really sinking into my own little world of thoughts, feelings, ideas, sensations and dreams!

I only was a member of a 'popular' clique for about a year and a half in highschool, and never felt so in betrayal of who I really am - guess this was an excellent lesson for me!


DemEx

[Why Syzygy]

22. In high school

I cultivated interests with the loners. I did not want to be part of the popular gang. I thought they were mean. One of them scathed a poor loner girl in home economics class. There was no reason she had to be so mean and nasty to that girl. A few years ago another woman I had been in touch with for decades put together an informal reunion. When I learned the mean person was going to be there, I decided not to go. That decision, a few years later, made the break situation with my original friend. When we were friends, she wasn't part of the popular crowd. She became just as mean as them. But I also found that when I struck up a friendship with someone, they would shortly become part of the popular clique. I've heard of that happening to one other person, my former niece. No idea what that is about.

I've been soul searching on this, and due to the fact that the man who got me into this current toilet boil still comes around, but maybe I can find the fortitude to keep him away this time, there has been the constant reminder, that these people, including him, are just dishonest. They have no desire to put forth efforts that I have for a very long time to improve oneself or search Truth. They lie to each other and lie to themselves, I guess. I am a relentless Truth seeker. Telling lies is just not acceptable to me. That made me an easy target for their rumor mill. The only regret I have is the man involved. I find it so hard to put him in the same category. But he flocks with them, keeps our current association a secret, so I have to conclude he is in the same strata, don't I? I know this is a sick situation. It has brought me heretofore unknown grief and suffering. As someone down thread says, by my choice, I guess. Unconscious choice. Choice by default because I wasn't paying attention when this began to unfold. Then it got my curiosity, Leo big bold letters, and I allowed someone else to take the lead. Which is not like me. My prior pattern was Ms Independent. By this time it is just so much water under the bridge, but I want to never repeat this painful situation, so I am examining every cranny. This has been unfolding for almost two years and when things were good it was exhilarating. There is nothing I can do to change a single thing. Except myself. That's what I'm working on. I underestimated the power of the clique, though. They won. I lost. But I will make the best of it, eventually. It doesn't make me feel any better, but I know they will never change. I do so on a regular basis.

It is healing to be able to discuss this with enlightened people. Thank you again.

[DemExpat]

38. I don't remember the popular clique in my school ever being cruel....

but it was this sense of being an elite, better than the rest that I felt very uncomfortable with - but there was no meanness, just a Texas friendly superiority.....:silly:

A clique will never win IMO.....it might feel like it, but you learn from this and move on and grow, as you know you are!

:hug:

DemEx

[cassiepriam]

27. I am an INFJ and a Pisces as well. This is the rarest typecode.

So we don't feel like we fit in. Only about 1-2% of population.

Probably wouldn't do any good to start a INFJ/ Pisces club.
No one would join :)

[LaurenG]

29. Well I'm an INFJ but I'm Virgo

:7

[cassiepriam]

30. I am a Virgo Ascendant nt

[DemExpat]

31. But wouldn't you just love to meet other INFJ 's in person?

And another INFJ Pisces would be *really, really* interesting.....LOL.

Would we feel like we were looking into a mirror here? :silly:

DemEx

[cassiepriam]

40. Most INFJs would say HECK NO to meeting anybody!

Just want to read in the tub and meditate.
Balance chakras, etc.

(But I would break away to meet you Dem :)

And INFJ Pisces has to be rarer yet.

Dem: That is interesting about the sun sign. Is your natal chart posted
on the other thread? I will have to go look at it again.

Funny, too, didn't we both love the song by Pink and talk
about it for a couple of days? It hit us both right between the eyes?

(PS if you are my twin flame or something, could I dump my house, hubby, kid, dog on you to mind for awhile. I'm going on vacation! :)

[Why Syzygy]

43. What Pink song?

She is so cute. I'm not really a rock'n'roller any more, go more for the mellow, but she kicks butt and takes names.

[cassiepriam]

46. This one: Dear Mr President.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9eDJ3cuXKV4&search=Pink%20Stupid%20Girls%20protest%20President%20George%20Bush%20Im%20Not%20Dead

Talk about kick butt. You will love it.

[Why Syzygy]

69. I do love it.

Have sent it to some people. Far cry from the Dixie Chicks getting stomped, eh? Yeah, Mr. pResident! I think musicians saved us from V.N. And so let it be now. Stop the killing. Again.

[cassiepriam]

75. Yes sure brought me back to the 60's. NT

[DemExpat]

56. Yeah, we were both pretty enthralled with Pink's song.....

and I just posted my chart in the horoscope thread to add to the list....I finally figured out how to post an image!

I do think it would be very interesting to meet you and other INFs - J's or P's!

:hi:

DemEx

[cassiepriam]

59. Yes she hit our buttons. Wonder what type code she is?

Could be an ENFJ.

On an INFJ/P meeting: The J's will be early, the P's will roll in when ever :)

And we will all be drained in an hour and need a nap.

It would be fun however.....Have you ever looked at the INFJ forums?

[DemExpat]

32. I had read that this is pretty rare as you say.....no wonder I am a loner

and although I love human contact in doses, I truly feel like I am of another kind.......although not a CLIQUE! :rofl:

:hi:

DemEx

[cassiepriam]

39. We are rare birds that is for sure. INFJs would not form a clique,

.... way too much togetherness! :)

[Why Syzygy]

44. Do you know

that yahoo has groups for personality types? When I was reading the INFP group, I just felt, these people KNOW ME, I'm just like them. I need to go back to that. The I part makes it a very interesting place to be. But even Introverts need a little digital stimulation. I wonder what percentage of internet freaks are I.

[cassiepriam]

51. I would think I's love the Internet

One time there was a thread about type code on
DU GD and quite a few INs. More then statistically
probable.

And yes I know about the websites. Could I stand
a whole group of people like me? Not sure. I make myself crazy. :)

[Why Syzygy]

63. Well I'm pretty

damned sure they would like you! :D Share the wealth.

[cassiepriam]

74. Thanks, I will try, when I am not in bed with the covers thrown

over my head :)

[LWolf]

33. INFJ here as well,

but Aries. :hi:

[DemExpat]

37. and my Moon is in Aries, so so far in this thread the 4 INFJers

share some Astrological signs/influences as well.

:hi:

DemEx

[cassiepriam]

41. Statistically 4 INFJs in this small of a group is against the odds.

I will have to look at the natal charts.

[marions ghost]

70. INFJ here also

yes it seems unusual, so many INF's in one place.

[Why Syzygy]

42. How come ya'll get to be "Js" and I have to be "P"?

I do have a bit of J, but can't make the score aovid PERCEIVING! Ugh! I perceive too much. I think judgment would be much better. But isn't it amazing that so many on this forum are INFJs? Wow. Awesome.

[cassiepriam]

53. J refers to needing structure. P to being more go with the flow.

The meanings don't really coincide with the names,
Judging and Perceiving.

Whether you are a P or J isn't as critical as the other pieces. You are an INF so you are very similar to the other INs and INFs.

[Why Syzygy]

67. I think what they call Infp

is "idealist". What is the label for Infj? I have fought against idealist. Thought I got over it. But no. It persists. I just can't give up!

[cassiepriam]

73. Some of the labels for INFJ

Counselor Idealist
Mystic
Empath
Humanitarian

[Love Bug]

45. I'm an INFJ and a Leo

As in introvert I have to sometimes make myself reach out so I don't get into a "funk." I was never in the popular clique in my HS, but didn't care either. I've always felt "apart" from most people.

[Why Syzygy]

50. I think that is part of being Introvert.

We see the extroverts out there, who push on people. We don't push. We loathe pushing. Don't push me. Give me space. I know why I landed in this position, because I ran up against a strong extrovert person. I allowed myself to be pushed to take care of his needs. This is a guy who has control over the person I loved. I was trying to be kind to the friends (click). As soon as I made up my mind that I would have to object (in a nice way) to being pushed, things turned to flames. It wasn't even vocalized. I believe this person read my mind, that I wasn't going to be the fetch girl anymore. I'm not here to serve everyone who has their own pushy agenda. He's a Taurus, so what do you expect. Sorry to anyone who is, but they are very self serving. Have their certain charm, sure. But big picture, big horns. I know it is a space on the wheel. My own son is a Taurus. But I have to define very strong boundaries with him. Over and over. I can't let him get in my space and tell me EXACTLY what to do. You can't ever satisfy them anyway. Respect me and I'll respect you. Kind of thing.

I so do not want to offend Taureans. You have your place. Just don't push us.

[DemExpat]

54. My son is also a Taurus, but more like me than my Libra daughter

in many ways. I find him to be hard headed when he has his mind made up, but in general he is not a pushy person at all - quite "live and let live" .....and his motto would probably be: "Don't push ME!" :D

DemEx

[Why Syzygy]

64. My son and I

have Libra moon, so I have his number. Emotionally. Isn't it great to mom a Taurus. They are stubborn! Do not underestimate. But well worth the while.

I had a Taurus roommate for years and I learned that if he asked my opinion, I had to throw it on the table, face an immediate rejection of idea and then eventually he would say, well that's a pretty good idea. It was fun to watch. I wasn't emotionally invested. I believe that this problematic Taurus will eventually come around. I have a feeling he already knows. They are mostly smoke and heavy breathing. But very intelligent. Dig it.

They are not hard headed to begin with. But just let them ask an opinion. And they seem to always be seeking an opinion to disagree with. Maybe just my observation.

[DemExpat]

79. Stubborn is right.....

we had some mighty battles while he was growing up.

When he made up his mind not to do something, absolutely NOTHING could sway him to change it....

Tom is a very loving son, though, and although he loves to tease and bait us all, he is a senstivie and affectionate young man.

My favorite and loving grandfather was also a Taurus - the ones I have known I really like!

DemEx

[DemExpat]

55. That makes 5 or 6 in this thread alone - that's pretty surprising.....

:wow:

:hi:

DemEx

[cassiepriam]

61. Yes, INFJs are supposed to be the mystics

of the type code world! So not surprising.
We won't be on the accounting or sports forums :)

[cassiepriam]

57. I looked at your chart.

We have 6 planets, as well as north node and Chiron, in the same signs. And three of the four angles are also in the same signs. (Some of this is due to fact we were born about a year apart, but not all.)

Your Pisces stellium is very similar to mine, you have the same line up, minus the moon.

You have a nice yod too. We are wired in similar ways but the energy is going to manifest in different areas of our lives.

But thankfully your chart is much more calm and peaceful than mine :)

You are looking like you have had a past life as a healing priestess, and bring forward much wisdom about healing and regeneration, and well as a knowledge of life cycles. (Pluto 2h)

You have URGENT stamped on your chart. You really want to finish up if you can, and you must integrate Pisces and Virgo energy. Take the good from both signs and use them in every day life.

You are hoping to come off the karmic wheel soon, but you did not load up your chart too much. Good thinking.

[DemExpat]

58. Wow Cassie, you work fast....:-)

But thankfully your chart is much more calm and peaceful than mine
Calm and peaceful is not an adjective I would use for myself and this lifetime - I nearly died from self-destructive tendencies in my 20s!
I looked for your chart on the other threads but could not find it....did you post?

You are looking like you have had a past life as a healing priestess, and bring forward much wisdom about healing and regeneration, and well as a knowledge of life cycles. (Pluto 2h)
My Astrooger did say that my 'purpose' this life was to communicate to others what all I have learned.......

You have URGENT stamped on your chart. You really want to finish up if you can, and you must integrate Pisces and Virgo energy.
What does this mean, Cassie? Urgent to do what? I have done Herculean work on mental health and ego issues in this lifetime, and have learned what love is through having my children, but what more can I do? :D:D:D

Take the good from both signs and use them in every day life.
I don't recall the Astrologer mentioning Virgo and using these 2 in daily life. She told me that higher learning (University studies) would be something for me, as well as more mystic, esoteric studies..... I graduate next year - 2007 with a British BSc in Social Sciences majoring in Human Geography and Politics - and this with a menopausal brain making it many times more of an effort than studies were for me in more youthful times....:crazy:
She also mentioned that doing someting artisitc/creative everyday would be very good for me - I don't do this on a regular basis.
Also I am trying to work out deep relationship problems of a karmic nature with my husband who I have been loving and hating now for over 35 years. Ridiculous, but true.....



You are hoping to come off the karmic wheel soon, but you did not load up your chart too much. Good thinking.

Oh, would I love to come off the karmic wheel, Cassie, but I do feel that even though I feel I have done great work this life, I ain't near Enlightenment as I imagine it to be - pure serenity!

But, who knows, if I can hang around here long enough to work out partner issues and complete my soul's work a bit more.......:shrug:

Thanks for your input there, and thanks for your caring!

DemEx

[cassiepriam]

60. I just hit the high spots, that is easy. :)

What I meant is that your chart is peaceful in terms of its structure, its aspects. I have many many aspects since I have a splay chart and most of the planets are within orb. I have many hard aspects and easy ones as well. A very mixed bag. No I confess I didn't post my chart. I have a very complicated chart and traditional interpretations make me want to jump off a bridge! So I just avoid the trauma. :)

And with all that Pisces in your chart I understand what you are saying. Most people with so much Neptune have lots of drama early on especially with escapist things (drugs, alcohol) and or mood disorders.And you have Uranus on the Asc so it was more chaotic early on.

All the work you have done is what I am talking about. You got your act together in your 30's. And went on to learn about love and partnering.

If you start reading about Pisces and Virgo traits you may get more of an idea about what you need to work on. And you are meant to take the rationality from past lives and blend it with empathy and compassion. Not to be a victim or martyr, to set good boundaries. To stay in the present and not go off on escapist tangents.

I would assume you are meant to work on that relationship with husband. I have to look at your chart more on that one....

What are you going to do with your degree?

I am not sure most of us can reach pure serenity while we are still living on earth. A few of the ascended masters did, but not us regular folks!
All we have to do is learn the lessons we need to learn. And be of service to others in a healthy way. Take care of ourselves. We don't have to become saints.

Also it is possible that you are not coming off the wheel altogether but that you are getting ready for a major cycles change in your incarnations. Something is up in terms of karmic change.

And yes you are seeking meaning in this life, trying to fit it all together and make sense of why you are here. And then being what you believe. Not just mouthing the words, but living it. In a spiritual and practical way.

[Why Syzygy]

71. Congrats! on the degree!

And children and hubby! Awesome. I read your posts all the time and you have a special spirit. And thanks to Cassie too. Aren't we all special? :D

[DemExpat]

77. Thanks for the congrats, Votesomemore!

Still have this course in Urban Studies to finish before September 1st, then in February my last year studies in a fascinating but heavy year in International politics/economics/development! Not quite there yet...:scared: :-)

I read, enjoy, and learn from everybody's posts in this Group - very, very special we are indeed! :D:D:D

:hug:

DemEx

[Quakerfriend]

17. That's me to a tee, LWolf!

Especially the part about having to work hard to 'maintain just a few' friendships.

However, some of my fondest memories are of non-stop partying/socializing in my mid- 20s. I'm sure this is true for many folks.

My sibs sometimes refer to me as the Howard Hughes of the family!

As an Aires gal, I am happiest this way.

My advise is: Be kind to all no matter what. Look for the humor in every situation and social encounter. And, if someone is 'clicky' this most often is reflective of some insecurity THEY are dealing with. Just let it all 'roll off your back', as they say.

[cassiepriam]

26. Me too :)

I would love that, away on a mountain somewhere.
Only person I see is the mailman.

[shanti]

62. you just described me

definitely a loner, i prefer it too and have always been this way since a child. probably sounds strange coming from someone with two ex husbands and four sons, but i am so looking forward to when my last son turns 18 (2 more years!!) and i have my house to myself. it was probably a blessing having only sons as sons are usually not as close to mom as daughters are and don't come by as often. i have mixed feelings about that tho....

at this time, i have 2 (count 'em) two close friends, one male and one female. no boyfriend or husband and don't really want one. at my age, 50, i just don't have the time or inclination to have more people in my life - i feel that i have enough already. i don't count my co-workers as "friends", although i am friendly to them.

it's gotten to when i do decide to leave the house and actually DO something (besides shopping or something related to my son's activities), by the time i return i am totally exhausted mentally and physically. vacations where i leave home are seldom relaxing for me. there have been weekends when i never left the house.

you are lucky that you don't have to leave home to work, as i still do. my job is also not a "loner" type job - it requires interraction with many people, but it pays well and offers a nice retirement, so i stay for four more years. it could be worse...

[marions ghost]

16. some of us just dont like the political game playing

and one-upping that goes on in workplaces, in volunteer groups, in support groups, spiritually oriented groups, academia etc you name it...everywhere there are groups. Personally I find it time-consuming and boring. And yet I believe in groups, especially support/affinity groups. I think it IS possible to find groups where this does not happen much. But in the successful ones I've seen there was a conscious effort to establish 'ground rules' of cooperation and check the worst of dominant behavior. Powermongers and other types of social "Hogs" were not welcome, but everybody else was. The Hogs didn't hang around because it wasn't fertile ground for them.

So what is a *positive* name for those like us--"individualists"?
--as opposed to loners, hermits, recluses, anti-social and all those not so complimentary terms?

Interesting that you are a Leo as usually Leos are very out front and quite at home jockeying for position in groups. I'm a Sag (some days extrovert) but with Scorpio rising, so I can go into my
protective shell again as fast as a fiddler crab on the beach (which I think is a problem in relationships, as people see that as inconsistent). But I find it useful, especially if I detect a person in a group might be one of those energy sucker types, I go invisible. In one large group I was in, a very dominant person was able to seize the helm and steer the whole group in her direction, aided by an army of henchwomen (it was not an exclusively womens' group but women were in the majority ;( ) Somewhat like the good old pResident of the USA, she managed to retain the helm for too long and head the organization toward the rocks. It remains to be seen whether new leadership can undo the damage. She played the political "you scratch my back..." game to the hilt. Basically a very insecure person who always demanded her way or the highway. She projected "Strength" and so people bought into her agenda regardless of whether it made any sense or not (again like supporters of the neocons).

So (these Q don't call for a literal answer maybe) what do you do to protect yourself? What are your defenses when you feel ganged up on or abused? You seem to be in a situation of trying to figure out how best to get beyond the 'push-pull' of groups...any clues or wisdom for you and or us? Just trying to shine the light on the problem here, while keeping it in general terms.

[Why Syzygy]

18. Yeah..

I can't speak for Leos at large, but my chart indicates that I do well behind the scenes, as well as in the spotlight. And I'm okay with that. But, public speaking is one of my gigs, and I love it. Although when I'm in a social setting with people who don't know each other, as in a new meetup, I launch forward, maybe act the fool, and then everyone else feels at ease to get a plate of food too, for example. Or the teacher of the class asks a question and no one else answers, so I speak up and loosen up the crowd to go ahead and state their case. They used to call me teacher's pet. But that was just because I can take a risk and teach can "pick on" me, and everyone else is put at ease. Leos have talent. I've even been dreaming about this.

I used to get my Algebra teacher in high school off track all the time. Then we could talk about split ends or belly buttons, anything but algebra. I have that talent, but it isn't irrepressible. When I took anatomy, I just sat and took notes. Of course my lab partner did all the dissecting. I won't touch a goat's brain. Leos come in very handy for getting things done in an efficient manner. If everyone else falls in line. :D

But I had a brain storm tonight due to this goddam stormy relationship, goddess bless our souls.

Some people are just Liars. I am not. I want the Truth, up front and personal. I fell into a web of deceit, and some people seem content to keep weaving the web. Current mis-administration noted.
Personal level, no I don't. If he wants to go off and play the part with the Liars, so be it. Not the first one. I don't want to. I want Honesty and Integrity. Integrity has been a goal of mine for many many years. I want to be at home with who I am. It seems the hermits on the thread have found that. I'm not into hermit-ville, but I do think this relates to I must remain Honest. I won't play stupid liar games to pretend. And yes, that does leave one out in the cold more often than not.

So to protect myself. I'm going to call them what they are. Liars. I am up front. Thanks.
Is that good enough? Oh wow, that's what I've been doing, but didn't realize. I think the realization will serve as protection.

[hippiechick]

19. Interesting how many Leo's were attracted to this thread !

4, so far ?

[Why Syzygy]

23. For a long time

I have felt Leos get a bad rap. We are supposed to be all prissy and limelight hogs. Natural leaders. yada yada. When I am in a leadership position, I have to WORK at it. It doesn't fall into my lap all bundled up.

When you know us personally, we are not that way at all, and I wonder why the stars put is in that pen. Jackie O was the most famous Leo, and Queen Elizabeth, who are both gracious women. But they don't match the hog the stage forumla either. They are quiet women who attracted attention just because they are strong and bold and keep on going no matter what. Leos have fortitude. We are not about being a show. We want everyone to have the same glow of sunshine we have (most of the time), not greedy at all. We just sometimes get so tired because we put more effort into sharing than taking.

[lildreamer316]

24. Nail on head there!!

That is me to a T--pretty much. I need a bit of time in the spotlight or I get antsy and act out in sometimes very interesting ways...but that is just because I absoulutely HAVE to express myself once in awile. That's why I'm in my profession. ALL of the time; though; I want everyone else to share it with me too. I want everyone to have some fun and feel good. My greatest fantasy is to have one big party where everyone I know is having the absoulute time of their lives. That would make my millenium; to be able to do that for them. Know what I mean?

[Why Syzygy]

25. I know what you mean.

My dream for a long time has been to have a huge house, retreat center, where people come and stand on equal footing and get to express their creative sides. I don't grasp this stingy business where people are so guarded and frightened. My idea is to provide a safe place to explore. And if I won the lottery, which I hardly ever play, so long shot, is to have a giant cruise and invite everyone to come enjoy. Yes, we are the generous sign. But that trait sometimes gets me into the most undesirable situations. What's a cat to do.

[lildreamer316]

65. Oh my GOODNESS

That very thing has gotten me into some serious situations i know EXACTLY what you mean. We can't help but try to help everyone else though...it's just in our nature. So far I've managed to come out of these without any major problems; but barely.

[Why Syzygy]

68. Do take care

I have had some majors when I went overboard on the generosity. Lesson well learned. There are hyienas out there. The only known predator of lions. Ugh. I hate those things.

[lildreamer316]

72. Mine was a vulture.

He even looked like one. (The latest one did; anyway) Thank god for my hubby.

[hippiechick]

34. As a Leo, I enjoy 'starting' and 'organizing' ...

... but I tend to back off once the group solidifies and the petty politicky stuff starts.

I'm comfortable being a sort of 'leader emeritus' and making recommendations; people tend to gravitate toward me with their ideas and I provide encouragement and feedback, but I don't put my own agenda out there and say "I'm in charge - so take it or leave it."

Funny, but as with the two of you, my work has been directed toward sharing and empowering the powerless - getting info and tools to people who need them but don't necessarily know where to look or how to use them once they get them.

O8)

[Why Syzygy]

35. I frequently find

that my ideas are adopted, but no one seems to remember it was my idea. My family or origin was notorious for this. I never pointed out to them where they got the ideas. Just glad they had a solution. There have been times when I unconsciously predicted trends too. I wonder if anyone pays for that information :D

[hippiechick]

36. LMAO ! Exactly !!!

:thumbsup:

[Why Syzygy]

49. I just checked out your profile ..

And pissing people off just because I can has been a minor hobby of mine too. My younger sister always thought she had the key to control me .. She is a Sag. But no. I only did it to prove her wrong. I don't like it when people come at me with power trips. I am Leo, hear me ROAR.

My grandparents lived near the Dallas zoo and every night I spent over there, you could hear the lions roaring. It was kinda scary. So, there is a clue to why we are so intimidating to folks who don't understand; we are just putty cats. But don't cross the line. The power does have to be contained and used in measured doses. We don't want to scare. We just want to eat and get some sun. I hope everyone else feels at home with their sun sign.

[hippiechick]

52. ... at home with it, but never understood the 'stagehog' aspect ...

It was nice to see some other Leos who have the same :wtf: about that too.



:hi:

[lildreamer316]

66. Oh; but I DO have a stagehog thing..

But as I'm an exotic entertainer; that works fully to my advantage. heehee. But I will not take the stage at the expense of someone else. Only with the understanding that you can take me or leave me--never forced on anyone.

[u4ic]

82. Queen Elizabeth is a Taurus

it was the Queen Mum who was a Leo. :-)

[DemExpat]

78. This is the energy that I always admire so, and would love some of!

:D

I can't speak for Leos at large, but my chart indicates that I do well behind the scenes, as well as in the spotlight. And I'm okay with that. But, public speaking is one of my gigs, and I love it. Although when I'm in a social setting with people who don't know each other, as in a new meetup, I launch forward, maybe act the fool, and then everyone else feels at ease to get a plate of food too, for example. Or the teacher of the class asks a question and no one else answers, so I speak up and loosen up the crowd to go ahead and state their case. They used to call me teacher's pet. But that was just because I can take a risk and teach can "pick on" me, and everyone else is put at ease. Leos have talent. I've even been dreaming about this.

DemEx

[davsand]

20. "I yam what I yam."

I dunno, I've never really liked very many women.

Not any real commentary there, I just never really got into that whole "make-up, hair, shopping, clothing, bitchy" thing that so many of them seem to. I also think a lot of women treat each other differently than they do men, and that just makes me nuts. Somehow there is just more "cattiness" sometimes when it is women with women--ya know?

I do think that within any group there is going to be some sort of stratification that happens over time. It is just part of a group dynamic--but it is something that can be very subtle. (I have observed it here at times, too, btw.) I think that how it impacts on the individuals really depends on what feelings or attitudes they bring into the interaction.

I also think that nothing succeeds any more in a competitive situation like the personal realization that you are there by choice.

Regards!


Laura

[Ecumenist]

28. You're not an aquarian/libra rising or a gemini are you?

Sounds alot like me and DH. We're one another's best friend and prefer one another's company. While I wouldn't say we're loners, we ain't exactly jumping to spend time with other folks all the time either and have always been this way from childhood to the present day.

[Pathwalker]

47. Recluse or hermit? What's the difference?

The way I see it, a hermit lives entirely alone, usually in small cramped quarters, while a recluse allows more creature comforts and more people into their space. I've often joked that I'm a "failed recluse", because it accurately describes my life. I always said I just wanted to be alone, but then
why did I marry such a social extrovert? I guess I'm just not as commited to solitude as I think I am.
Also, maybe the difference can also be that while the hermit has entirely rejected society, the recluse simply withdraws, but doesn't cut off all contact, in order to persue inner needs. Less anti-social, more spiritual.
The hermits I've known were very anti-social types, angry and bitter, including my husband's uncle. He lived in a hovel for 35 years, but left his half-million dollar fortune to the American Cancer Society,
which no one except his banker ever knew existed. He lived and died alone, angry and bitter. That's a hermit, not a recluse - as I see it.
What differences, if any, do you all see between the definitions of hermits and recluses?

[Sanity Claws]

48. I love the distinction you drew between the two

I've just considered myself eccentric and self-sufficient. Recluse is another good word to have handy.

[hippiechick]

76. I think your definition is spot on, actually ...

... which would mean I should change my self-label to "recluse who has episodes of angry hermiticism". :)