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Trillo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-29-05 07:17 PM
Original message
NASA Scientists Discover Tenth Planet
Friday July 29, 7:33 pm ET

WASHINGTON, July 29 /PRNewswire/ -- A planet larger than Pluto has been discovered in the outlying regions of the solar system.

The planet was discovered using the Samuel Oschin Telescope at Palomar Observatory near San Diego, Calif. The discovery was announced today by planetary scientist Dr. Mike Brown of the California Institute of Technology in Pasadena, Calif., whose research is partly funded by NASA.

The planet is a typical member of the Kuiper belt, but its sheer size in relation to the nine known planets means that it can only be classified as a planet, Brown said. Currently about 97 times further from the sun than the Earth, the planet is the farthest-known object in the solar system, and the third brightest of the Kuiper belt objects.
http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/050729/dcf059.html?.v=3
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Eloriel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-29-05 07:54 PM
Response to Original message
1. Wow -- is this for real?? AND --
isn't there some prophecy around the discovery of a 10th planet???? Help me out here, folks.

Ooooo --- Keith Olbermann RIGHT THIS MINUTE covering it. Talk about your synchronicity. It has its own moon.
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Trillo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-29-05 08:51 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. I don't know about the prophecy part,
the Press Release has the astronomers home page at CalTech for anyone interested.
http://www.gps.caltech.edu/~mbrown/
It was first observed October 31, 2003 according to the PR.

I had read of theories about a 10th planet as far back as 10 or more years ago, I guess mathematicians could tell from orbital paths and gravitational influences that there were other masses out there.

This was the first I'd read of it and I thought astrologers would be interested. According to Brown's website, this apparently is an object different from Sedna which was first observed in Nov of 2003.
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Dover Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-29-05 10:55 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. Niburu?
Edited on Fri Jul-29-05 11:49 PM by Dover
Is that something from Zecharia Sitchin?
I'd never heard about a 10th planet, but remember something like that connected to him. Here's what I just got when I googled under 10th planet:

http://www.detailshere.com/niburu.htm

Or Planet X and a suggestion that there is a second Sun -

From discussion sites:

Mathematical irregularities in the orbits of the outer planets, in particular, strange wobbles and gravitational anomalies noted in the orbits of Uranus, Neptune and Pluto, have prompted astronomers over the past hundred years to search for a large planetary body in the outer solar system. Based on mathematical evidence, astronomers have been so sure of the reality of this planet that they named it Planet X. The name stands for the tenth planet.

Many articles have been written about Planet X over the last twenty years. On June 17, 1982, a NASA press release from Ames Research Center officially recognized the possibility of "some kind of mystery object" beyond the outermost planets. Astronomy magazine published an article in December of 1981 entitled "Search for the Tenth Planet," and another article in October of 1982 entitled "Searching for a Tenth Planet." Newsweek covered the story of Planet X on June 28, 1982 in an article entitled "Does the Sun Have a Dark Companion?" This article implied that the tenth planet was a twin sun, stating that such a "dark companion could produce the unseen force that seems to tug at Uranus and Neptune, speeding them up at one point in their orbits and holding them back as they pass... the best bet is a dark star orbiting at least 50 billion miles beyond Pluto... It is most likely either a brown dwarf, or a neutron star."

Andy Lloyd later went on to more than speculate that we live in a binary star system (www.darkstar1.co.uk). The Washington Post covered the story of Planet X on the front page on December 31, 1983 called "Mystery Heavenly Body Discovered." This story reported that the Infrared Astronomical Satellite (IRAS) detected heat from an object about fifty billion miles away.

A NASA/ARC press release published in Newsweek on July 13, 1987 disclosed that "an eccentric 10th planet may or may not be orbiting the Sun." The article stated that NASA research scientist John Anderson "has a hunch Planet X is out there, though nowhere near the other nine." The article concluded, "if he is right, two of the most intriguing puzzles of space science might be solved: what caused mysterious irregularities in the orbits of Uranus and Neptune during the 19th Century. And what killed off the dinosaurs 65 million years ago."

http://www.majorityreportradio.com/weblog/archives/001694.php




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icymist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-30-05 12:12 AM
Response to Reply #4
7. Have you read the book 'Nemesis, The Death Star' Dover?
Edited on Sat Jul-30-05 12:13 AM by icymist
Dr. Richard Muller and Dr. Luis Alvarez have a theory from about fifteen years ago that our sun has a companion star. They think that every 70 - 80 million years this other star comes close to our star and brings the asteroid belt with it. It's a theory in astrophysics about what killed off the dinosaurs. It's a good book if you can find it, reads like a novel, printed, I believe 1988.
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Dover Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-30-05 12:18 AM
Original message
No hadn't heard about that. Thanks!
Does this theoretical twin star have planets? If so, does this theory have any potential relationship to this 'new' planet discovery?
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icymist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-30-05 09:26 AM
Response to Original message
19. Sorry I'm so late at getting back at you Dover, I had to get to work...
Edited on Sat Jul-30-05 09:40 AM by icymist
I found a posting on the web about Dr. Muller and his theory:
http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/solarsystem/nemesis_010320-1.html

This theory is just that, a theory, but is rooted with much fact that it may be true, and may also be disproved because such an orbit would be hard to maintain. No, they haven't found planets with this star....they haven't even found the star. I recommend the book to you for it's a great little read and clearly explains how theories are brought about in the world of astrophysics.

Interesting part of this article:
<snip>
Yet another enduring idea is that another large planet lurks beyond Pluto. This so-called Planet X would be a gas ball up to five times the size of Earth, according to some predictions. Even the possibility of a black hole has been raised. Few researchers support these two ideas.


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Dover Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-30-05 12:18 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. *
Edited on Sat Jul-30-05 12:19 AM by Dover
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FreedomAngel82 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-30-05 01:04 AM
Response to Reply #7
9. Interesting
So do you think it's this planet perhaps?
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Dover Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-30-05 01:31 AM
Response to Reply #9
13. If you're asking me.........I don't have a clue. I'm not at all familiar
with any of the 10th planet theories, so wouldn't venture a guess.
Maybe someone else has followed these stories, and will chime in...
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Dover Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-30-05 01:31 AM
Response to Reply #9
14. *
Edited on Sat Jul-30-05 01:31 AM by Dover
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Desertrose Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-29-05 10:00 PM
Response to Original message
3. and it even has a moon!!
Is this cool or what?!

Yes...a planet X has been predicted for awhile from various sources...maybe this is it...


National Geographic News

July 29, 2005

Astronomers in Spain and the U.S. have discovered a large object skirting the fringes of the solar system. Research teams from both countries announced the discovery separately.

The object, designated 2003 EL61, is about 930 miles (1,500 kilometers) across, according to Mike Brown, an astronomer at the California Institute of Technology, who led the U.S-based team. The team announced its discovery today.

The object also has a moon.


Astronomers at Palomar Observatory in California captured this image of a Pluto-size object on the fringe of the solar system on May 6, 2004. Designated 2003 EL61, the object is estimated to be about 930 miles (1,500 kilometers) across and is orbited by a moon.Photograph courtesy Mike Brown/California Institute of Technology

2003 EL61 and its satellite are located in the Kuiper belt, a region beyond Neptune that includes Pluto and the recently discovered large planet-like objects Quaoar and Orcus.

Preliminary reports from the Spanish scientists suggested it may be twice as big as Pluto, but those reports now appear to be incorrect.

"They were just guessing a size, because they didn't know it has a satellite," Brown wrote in an e-mail to National Geographic News.


more at link...http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2005/07/0729_05...

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Trillo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-29-05 11:07 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. Looks like Brown and colleagues have proposed the name Lila
Edited on Fri Jul-29-05 11:11 PM by SimpleTrend


but that name hasn't been announced by International Astronomical Union.
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Dover Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-29-05 11:11 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. Hmmm....a feminine name. I like it. Although, if this planet is
mixing it up with Pluto, Lola might be more appropriate.

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FreedomAngel82 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-30-05 01:05 AM
Response to Reply #6
11. How would it mix with Pluto?
:shrug: With that second picture does anybody else get a weird feeling?
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Dover Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-30-05 01:29 AM
Response to Reply #11
12. I thought their orbits overlapped.......
Which picture are you referring to?
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Trillo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-30-05 01:35 AM
Response to Reply #6
15. I'm not certain of the Lola reference, but
Edited on Sat Jul-30-05 01:51 AM by SimpleTrend
it will be nice when there's an ephemeris entry for it and any others that may be mixing it up with Pluto for cyclical insight to astrological repetition of events.

On edit: Dr. Brown has updated his webpage titled: "Planet Lila" stating that it's speculation to assume that is the name submitted to IAU!
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Dover Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-30-05 01:48 AM
Response to Reply #15
16. "Lola" was a joke........or at least an attempt at one.
:P The name has a sort of smoldering, sexy connotation that I thought might be appropriate for a planet that mixed it up (crossed orbital paths) with Pluto.

Lila just sounded way too innocent...

Oh well, I guess I'll take my cosmic humor (or lack there of) and go to bed.
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Trillo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-30-05 01:56 AM
Response to Reply #16
17. You're on to something Dover!
Edited on Sat Jul-30-05 02:26 AM by SimpleTrend
"Mixing it up" and "Innocence" and is right!

(I'm humor impaired more often than I'd like :)

On the Quaoar page it shows a gif of Pluto's 'off center' orbit.
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Desertrose Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-30-05 02:13 AM
Response to Reply #16
18. hey Dover....late nite humor always gets me in trouble LOL
Edited on Sat Jul-30-05 02:14 AM by Desertrose
about the name Lila...I thought I read in one of the linked articles that the author just threw that name out because it was his 3 week old daughter's name!!

and I think the confusion is that there have actually been 2 planets discovered.....one has a moon ....I saw it in the linked article as well...

so before I get myself into more trouble, I am off to bed as well:)

sweet dreams everyone :boring:
:hug:DR
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Digit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-30-05 10:29 PM
Response to Reply #16
22. I caught your reference, Dover
when you said "mixing"...lol
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Dover Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-30-05 10:37 PM
Response to Reply #22
23. Phew...........thanks. Plutonian humor is 'deep' ...hehehe
But you may not want to claim a membership in my late night
comedy club....could be bad for business! lol!:silly:
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FreedomAngel82 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-30-05 01:04 AM
Response to Reply #3
10. I remember seeing that picture
And neat it has a moon too. :D
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NEOBuckeye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-30-05 01:21 PM
Response to Original message
20. So do you think the new planet might be the true ruler of Virgo or Taurus?
They say it has an orbit of about 590 years, which is more than twice the length of Pluto's orbit. I guess we'd have to look back at historical trends spanning a few millenia to get a good feel for what this planet might be influencing over time. I wonder what degree of what sign is it located in?

I'm always fascinated by these new discoveries. There must be at least a half-dozen more planets out there that we haven't found yet within the extent of our own solar system.
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Trillo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-05 01:12 AM
Response to Reply #20
25. 557 is the latest I've heard.
I wonder if it correlates to any of the transneptunians Uranian astrologers use, but I haven't used those, except for today for the first time. :silly: Years ago I belonged to a local astrological group that had a newsletter titled The Uranian, but I never read any articles about transneptunians in it in the several years I was a member, and I think I read all the articles at least once.

According to an AP article I read that has information far more detailed than Brown's website, the orbital path is inclined at a 45 degrees to the ecliptic, which means as far as I can tell, its declination/inclination is far in excess of any of the other planets.

I would guess that even with a steep inclination 2003 UB313 would still have nodes near an ecliptic plane if it's a planet of this system (astronomy was never a compulsory class at community college and regretfully I never took that class). Therefore, the background star patterns this new planet would travel through would be much different from those with in the typical zodiac or ecliptic plane of the earth.

A java applet:
http://neo.jpl.nasa.gov/orbits/2003ub313.html

These types of physical phenomenon really stretch what is historically considered traditional astrology.

I wonder if there will ever be any planets discovered that have an inclination of 90 degrees? What will astrologers do then? Clearly, a two dimensional representation of a natal chart would be close to completely irrelevant with an orbiting body that has a 90-degree inclination to the ecliptic plane.


My first guess is this is the transneptunian Witte and Sieggrun named Apollo, and that guess is based upon the orbital period as defined by Astrolog's calculation routines of about 577 years. In contrast Kronos is about 510 years, and Admetos about 614. However, if one goes by Brown's quote, "... is currently almost directly overhead in the early-morning eastern sky", then I'd have to modify my guess to Admetos, Hades, Kronos, or Vulcanos. By this system, Apollo would be ruled out because it's below the horizon.

Admetos (614 years)
Hades (360 years)
Kronos (521 years)
Vulcanos (663 years)
http://finblake.home.mindspring.com/tnpdata.htm

We can probably eliminate Hades, since the orbital period is so far from the observations of 2005UB313, as well is the mean distance. The mean distances of Admetos, Kronos, or Vulcanos are the most likely candidates, if the new name is to correlate to any of Witte and Sieggrun's transneptuninan hypotheticals.

Unfortunately, since I never took astronomy, I have no idea how to correlate astronomers placements to those commonly used in western astrology, mathematical conversions systems information is absent from all my different astrology books, perhaps this is due in part to the chasm between astrologers and astronomers. Astronomy programs use coordinate systems that are completely unfamiliar to me, so I've never used them.

Maybe younger people who aren't as embittered by the educational system in America as I am will have better luck with that in the future.

Isn't there a lot of volcanic activity lately?
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Trillo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-05 01:33 AM
Response to Reply #25
28. I want to add
Edited on Sun Jul-31-05 01:34 AM by SimpleTrend
that the transneptunians have no declination or very little, according to the ephereris in the software I use, so obviously there would be calculation error with the transneptunians relative to the newly discovered 2003UB313.
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-30-05 02:45 PM
Response to Original message
21. Don't many astrologers include an unknown planet
that they named Lilith in their calculations? I remember reading about it it years ago.
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Dover Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-30-05 11:30 PM
Response to Reply #21
24. Here are some different things I've found.......re: Astrology/Planet X
Edited on Sun Jul-31-05 12:15 AM by Dover
Basic Info on the Discovery: http://starbulletin.com/2005/07/30/news/story3.html

_________________________________________________________________


All about Planet X - Myth, Science, Astology
http://www.trivia-library.com/planet-x/

PLANET X

Known Facts: The Bode Law of planetary distances predicted that Neptune should lie where Pluto is. The next planet in the sequence would be 7,172 million mi. from the sun. Neptune hasn't deviated far enough from its calculated orbit since discovery for astronomers to pinpoint the position of a possible perturbing planet, but other phenomena suggest that there may be one.


Several planets have families of comets associated with them. Pluto has 5, Neptune 8, Uranus 3, Saturn 6, and Jupiter over 50. One group of 16 comets has its aphelion at 7 billion mi., the magic Bode number. Some astronomers believe this family belongs to an undiscovered planet.


A more recent cometary investigation involves Halley's Comet. In 1972 Joseph Brady used a computer analysis to account for slight discrepancies in the comet's orbit unexplained by perturbations from the known planets. Based on the results, he predicted a large planet, three times as massive as Saturn, with an orbit tilted 120 deg. with respect to the ecliptic. When seen by earth dwellers, this orbit would appear tilted at 60 deg., but moving in a retrograde direction when compared to the other planets. Brady further predicted the eccentricity of the orbit as being 0.07, and said that the planet would have a period nearly twice that of Pluto. It should be large and bright, between the 13th and 14th magnitude, and lie in the direction of the constellation Cassiopeia. Furthermore, the remaining unexplained deviations of Halley's Comet might indicate a second trans-Plutonian planet.


Tombaugh's earlier search did not cover this part of the sky (he surveyed closer to the ecliptic plane), so perhaps a planet does lie there. Astronomers searched in 1972 and 1973, but no planet was found.


If one should be discovered, the view from its surface would be a desolate one. At that distance, the sun would appear as a bright star and no inner planets could be seen. The surface temperature would be near absolute zero, unless the planet had its own internal volcanic or radioactive heat source.

_________________________________________________________________

PLANET X - Astrology

Astrological View: Many astrologers think each of the 12 "houses" is ruled by a heavenly body. Including the sun and moon, there are now 11 known bodies. One is missing. A tentative name is applied by a very few astrologers to the missing planet, the name Vulcan, the son of Jupiter and brother of Mars.

___________________________________________________________________

According to Astrologer Dane Rudhyar:

CHAPTER ONE
Three Centuries of Crisis - 6

Shall man discover — perhaps at the beginning of the 2lst century — another planet beyond Pluto? The existence of such a planet has been considered probable by some astronomers; and some astrologers, in America and Europe, have not only calculated the general orbit it may have, but have spoken of several more distant planets. Their existence is not at all impossible; but my feeling is that only one planet is to be soon discovered beyond Pluto, and many years ago I have spoken of it — as a hypothesis — giving it the name Proserpine. (Dutch astrologers have used instead the Greek name, Persephone). If it does exist it would naturally and logically be the symbol of concrete rebirth after the threefold crisis on the Path of transformation. It would signify the foundation of a new type of human existence in which the dualism of life and death would be transcended by a consciousness able to experience cyclically both without loss of identity — a condition relating to the great myth of the goddess Proserpine who passed a third of her existence with Pluto in the "Underworld" and the other two thirds on the Earth's surface, as a symbol of a reborn vegetation. Proserpine would then represent the mind of the Initiate who, like the Lazarus of the Gospel, has known death and is resurrected through the power of a divine Being, his "Master" or guru.

Regardless of such a possibility, the fact is that we are dealing now with three planets beyond Saturn which indeed should be regarded as a unit, i. e. as a trinity — if for no other reason than the lengths of their periods of revolution around the Sun are related in a most unusual manner. The period of Neptune is twice, and that of Pluto three times the length of the period of Uranus. Such a 1-2-3 relationship between the time-cycles of successive planets is unique in our solar system; and any fact that is thus singled out must be given a special significance in any gestalt and therefore in any system of symbolism.

Thus, the correlation between Uranus, Neptune and Pluto and the three basic century-long phases of the process of total reorganization of humanity corresponding to their official discovery becomes even more meaningful. We are led to assume that the three planets constitute a real "trinity" of aspects — the three aspects of one single process of transformation of the deepest implications of human existence. We see this process at work in individual persons as we study the trans-Saturnian planets and their transits in relation to individual birth-charts; and we are shown in a measurable way how such processes operate in the lives of modern persons. In the past these processes were considered "occult" and they involved the greatest secrecy and awe-inspiring tests; but since Uranus, Neptune and Pluto have, as it were, come out from the unconscious depths of man's inner being and entered the consciousness of at least the evolutionary spearhead of humanity, the Mysteries of the past are being "dis-occulted."

When the human mentality was formed under the rigid patterns of social-cultural systems of communal organization celestially dominated by Jupiterian religions and Saturnian rites and dogmas, everything that would transcend and could lead to the universalization of the worshipped Tradition was publicly taught to be evil, and only made known, in the secrecy of some Holy of Holies, to selected and harshly tested candidates to Initiation. But now that the trans-Saturnian planets have entered the conscious Mind of Humanity, the radical crises of consciousness to which modern man is subjected — as his most fundamental bio-psychic allegiances are being dissolved into meaninglessness — have taken the place of the greater part of what once was occulted. Modern life itself is the tester because this life challenges us to make crucial decisions that only a few selected and trained individuals could make in the past. ..cont'd

http://www.khaldea.com/rudhyar/at/at_c1_pp6.shtml

-----


Reference to Astrologer, Dane Rudhyar:

" To transform itself is the only solution left to the human species - in other words, to tear from the asuric forces the power of ruling over the human species. " Mirra Alfassa

For years Astronomers have been speculating about the existence of another planet in our Solar System assumed to orbit out beyond Pluto far from our Sun . In the late 1960's I remember seeing astronomical articles in the San Francisco Chronicle announcing that such a planet had been tentatively spotted; it was commonly referred to as "Planet-X". It's purported discovery was hotly contested among astronomers as it came and went in the Newspapers year after year during the following decades; first it would be announced as fact, then it would be relegated to the realm of speculative rumor. As far as I can tell these days (August, 2003) astronomers are still debating its tentative existence. But some astrologers and not a few "alternative writers" such as Zacariah Sitchin (not to mention a score or so of "psychics" and/or "channellers") have taken up the idea of its existence and speculated as to its orbit, its nature, and its implications for mankind. An excellent summary of the facts, myths, and theories concerning "Planet-X" is found in a very fine article by Joan d'Arc at Paranoia Magazine's internet web site, and I urge anyone beginning this article to read that one so as to save me the trouble of summarizing all that highly relevant material:
http://www.paranoiamagazine.com/planetx.html

Followers of Sitchin tend to identify the astronomers' "Planet-X" with that worthy and imaginatively creative scholar's Sumerian planet called Nibiru, and from that kind of identification-association they've derived quite a bit of speculative belief concerning its 3,600 year orbital period as well as its role (or its inhabitants' role) in our presumed "genetic engineering" way back in our ancient past. I consider all such speculations most stimulating, highly evocative, and quite valid but they're not convincing enough to me and won't be my focus in this article. Instead, I propose to consider "Planet-X" primarily from the astrological point of view pioneered by Dane Rudhyar who argued that it makes astrological sense that a planet exists beyond Pluto, and suggested that it be considered in the light of the Tale of Persephone-Proserpine and even given that name. Planet-X, therefore, shall be considered as Persephone and as the complimentary astrological partner of Pluto, and I shall speculate as to its inevitable astronomical discovery and its meaning or function in our collective and personal lives largely by way of the work of Aurobindo Ghose ("Sri Aurobindo") and his partner, Mirra Alfassa (The "Mother").

Who was Persephone? For that matter, who was Pluto, and what was his relationship to his partner, Persephone? Indeed, who was Sri Aurobindo and what was his relationship to his partner, Mirra Alfassa? In pursuit of the answers to such questions we are about to enter the realm of two very unusual "couples" who defy all notions of traditional "Romantic Love," two couples whose relationships were centered around DEATH and the meaning of the UNDERWORLD -even though one of these couples is purely "mythological" while the other is "historical": Pluto-Persephone are mythological (a Greek God and a Goddess) while Aurobindo-Alfassa are historical personages from the 19th and 20th Centuries born respectively in India and France. The Sword, Excalibur, and The Lady of the Lake will make their entrance when and as they see fit. ...cont'd

http://starpathvisions.com/TheComingX.html

----------------------------------------------------------------


Zechariah Sitchin: http://www.librarising.com/planetX.html

http://www.queenofcups.com/AR37article.htm

____________________________________________________________________

Sedna (previously discovered 10th Planet):
http://www.moonspells.com/ie/articles/sedna.html
http://www.crystalinks.com/sedna2.html

_____________________________________________________________________

Misc. (from India):

http://www.zetatalk.com/index/signja31.htm

____________________________________________________________________


A few interesting books on the topic:

Title: Astrological Timing: The Transition To The New Age
By, Dane Rudhyar (1969 - has been reprinted).

http://www.khaldea.com/rudhyar/bookshop.shtml


Title: Persephone Is Transpluto: The Scientific, Mythological, And Astrological Discovery…Beyond…Pluto
Author: Vaughn, Valerie

Price: $12.95
ISBN: 096280312X

Without a doubt this is the most complete and well-researched book on Transpluto (Planet X) ever written. Author Valerie Vaughan tackles every significant fact relating to undiscovered planets and presents her case for the existence of Planet X and goes further by offering an interpretation of its astrological influence and meaning. She argues that Transpluto should be named Persephone because its influence is feminine. She predicts it will be the first feminine planet to be discovered in the modern era. She begins the book with descriptions of the circumstances of the discoveries of Uranus, Neptune, Pluto and Chiron, all named for male deities and all symbolizing masculine functions. The next major planet to be discovered is feminine, Vaughan says, and her book contains valuable information on ancient feminine mythologies. Included also is a 112-year ephemeris for Persephone/Transpluto. Students of mythology will find this book to be an important work on the Persephone myth itself.
___________

Title: Astro-Mythology: Celestial Union Of Astrology & Myth
Author: Vaughn, Valerie

Price: $11.95
ISBN: 0962803154

Astro-Mythology is the oldest "inter-disciplinary" study. Before the invention of writing, and long before modern science divided human experience into "fact" and "myth," all knowledge was recorded in one unified script - the patterns and cycles of the stars and planets. The ancients could look in one place (the night sky) to find an extensive encyclopedia of human experience. The keys to science, mathematics, psychology, philosophy, spiritual teaching, the alphabet, the calendar, and astrology - all were contained in the mythology of star lore. With the development of modern science, human knowledge has been divided into separate categories, and star legends have been labeled as superstitious, quaint, outdated folktales. The purpose of this book is to remind us that the ancient traditions of astro-mythology are still living, eternally "writ in the stars." Astro-Mythology is more than a collection of entertaining and instructive stories of the gods we call planets and their adventures in the celestial lands we know as the signs of the Zodiac. Directions are also given on how to use astro-mythology to interpret birth charts and discover personal myths.

http://www.astrology-books.com/store/vaughn_valerie.html

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Dover Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-05 01:13 AM
Response to Reply #24
26. Very interesting what Rudhyar says about mysteries being "dis-occulted"
Edited on Sun Jul-31-05 01:20 AM by Dover
and the cycles of transformation of the collective consciousness.
It reminds me of a thread I started here some time ago, that linked to some websites that revealed occult (hidden) knowledge. I think it was Pallas who responded with great concern that these 'mysteries' and 'knowledge' were so readily available to the layman and uninitiated. My thought was that I felt this new digital computer and information revolution was not a 'mistake' and was part of a bigger plan....for better AND worse. So these thoughts by Rudhyar suggest something similar:

Thus, the correlation between Uranus, Neptune and Pluto and the three basic century-long phases of the process of total reorganization of humanity corresponding to their official discovery becomes even more meaningful. We are led to assume that the three planets constitute a real "trinity" of aspects — the three aspects of one single process of transformation of the deepest implications of human existence. We see this process at work in individual persons as we study the trans-Saturnian planets and their transits in relation to individual birth-charts; and we are shown in a measurable way how such processes operate in the lives of modern persons. In the past these processes were considered "occult" and they involved the greatest secrecy and awe-inspiring tests; but since Uranus, Neptune and Pluto have, as it were, come out from the unconscious depths of man's inner being and entered the consciousness of at least the evolutionary spearhead of humanity, the Mysteries of the past are being "dis-occulted."

When the human mentality was formed under the rigid patterns of social-cultural systems of communal organization celestially dominated by Jupiterian religions and Saturnian rites and dogmas, everything that would transcend and could lead to the universalization of the worshipped Tradition was publicly taught to be evil, and only made known, in the secrecy of some Holy of Holies, to selected and harshly tested candidates to Initiation. But now that the trans-Saturnian planets have entered the conscious Mind of Humanity, the radical crises of consciousness to which modern man is subjected — as his most fundamental bio-psychic allegiances are being dissolved into meaninglessness — have taken the place of the greater part of what once was occulted. Modern life itself is the tester because this life challenges us to make crucial decisions that only a few selected and trained individuals could make in the past.
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Trillo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-05 01:29 AM
Response to Reply #26
27. Hmm,
Edited on Sun Jul-31-05 01:37 AM by SimpleTrend
"I think it was Pallas who responded with great concern that these 'mysteries' and 'knowledge' should be so readily available to the layman and uninitiated."

Pallas180?

It would seem that astrologers keep information from other astrologers, as well. (Isn't it odd that a astrological newsletter named The Uranian wouldn't have one article about Uranian astrology over the course of several years?) But can't the same be said of traditional education and the various disiplines where 'initiation' isn't granted until Phd is attained in the last couple of years and a thesis is written?

Sorry, I had to rant.
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Dover Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-05 02:05 AM
Response to Reply #27
30. You've lost me.........not getting your point. Would you explain more?
thanks.
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Trillo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-05 02:19 AM
Response to Reply #30
31. It was mostly related to post 25.
Edited on Sun Jul-31-05 02:22 AM by SimpleTrend
And some other posts I've made in the couple years I've been on DU.

Uranian astrologers use the hypothetical transneptunian planets in their practice. I belonged to an astrological society whose newsletter was named The Uranian. I don't remember one article about transneptunian planets in any of the articles over the several years I was a member.

I have also written quite a bit on DU about the unjustness of schools and pay scales in the United States. If you hadn't seen those posts, you likely wouldn't understand. (edited to add: some related posts contained personal experiences)

Consequently, I was tying what you quoted to those two concepts which basically express similar sentiments, but from disparate sources. Perhaps it's an archetypal pattern of humans.

Sorry for any confusion.
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Dover Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-05 02:45 AM
Response to Reply #31
32. Okay..now I see the connection. I guess my sense is that even though
Edited on Sun Jul-31-05 02:52 AM by Dover
occult knowledge IS available now to anyone for the most part, it's really not truly accessible unless you yourself are ready to receive it. It just wouldn't make sense otherwise, intellectually speaking.
In fact, intellectual pursuit of occult knowledge will only take one so far. Then it's more of an experiential process.

So in that sense, it's 'hidden' in plain site.

Have you ever read something when you were young and inexperienced and had difficulty following it as though it were somehow too dense and over your head, but then years later you go back to it and it all makes sense and even appears elementary? So, in a sense, you probably do need different levels of experience/knowledge to become 'initiated' into the mysteries. I know that the Masons, for instance, break their ascension/initiation down into different stages of personal progress.

I think schools, in general, are way too intellectually based and linear, rather than incorporating experiential, nonlinear processes to complement the development of intellect. But that's a whole other thread....
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Trillo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-05 03:17 AM
Response to Reply #32
33. In answer to your question, yes, but also no in some respects,
though probably not with the inference it appears you intended.

Expanding on this seeming paradox really is another subject entirely.

It is true that in the last 10-15 years the computer has created a great deal more sharing, sharing that otherwise people could have done, but didn't. Humans have a tremendous capacity for hiding, which curiously is a stone-age survival tactic perhaps hardwired into the inner bird brain, and secrecy; as well as deliberate deception, today often done for monetary gain.
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Trillo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-05 01:40 AM
Response to Reply #21
29. Lilith is related to the Moon's orbit.
It is the missing "focal point" of an ellipse, it is one focal point of two. The earth is located in the non-missing focal point.
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