How worried would you be: our Shih-tsu bit Sparkly last night?

[Stinky The Clown]

You probably all know (I speak about them enough!), but for the record, we have three female dogs. A Border Collie, who is our alpha, a German Shepherd Dog, who is our sweetie/lovie/kissie, and a Shih-tsu who is barely a year old and still developing her full personality.

The Shih-tsu is very food motivated.

The BC is getting older, but still loves to play energetically with the Shih-tsu.

Last night, all three got a rawhide chew. The Shih-tsu has no sense of ownership or sharing. She lost her rawhide under the sofa and took the BC's, which was on the floor about a half inch from the BC's face. They got into a ferfluffle when the BC showed her teeth to the Shih-tsu. The Shih-tsu, fearless as always, didn't respect "Mama". She barked. Mama barked, Mama snapped. The Shish-tsu snapped back. Mama bit a little harder. The Shih-tsu went for Mama. Sparkly got between them and the Shih-tsu, snapping at anything she could, bit Sparkly on the back of her calf.

There are a nice set of dental impressions and one small puncture. Sparkly went to the doc today. All is well, but the doc said she was wise to get it checked out.

Do we have a problem here?

I tend to think the Shih-tsu just needs a firmer hand. She's very "spirited". Sparkly is feeling glum, thinking she's a bad doggie-mama.

After last night's dust-up we took the chew toys away. The dogs have all been very calm since then.

I think the little one just set off Mama in a way that caught a napping Mama off guard and that they'll work it out.

Sparkly is more worried about them, generally.

What do you guys think?

[Curmudgeoness]

1. We are always foolish when we get in the middle of a fight, but

we all do it at some point. Sparkly is not a bad doggie-mama! But this could be a problem. It sounds to me like Shish-tsu is looking to be the alpha, and may be challenging BC for that position in the household. The big thing is, you have to be the alpha in the house. Between the two dogs, they probably will work it out, but it may be to the detriment of BC if she loses the alpha spot. This probably was an accident because the dogs were so worked up but I think that Shish-tsu needs training so that she will listen to you and Sparkly. Don't be too casual about this type of behavior. It can get worse.

[Stinky The Clown]

2. I think this was just an unfortuante series of otherwise routine things that all erred the same way

The Border Collie is naturally wrapped tight. She was a rescue who had been living on the streets. We've had her about 10 years, but we still see some street wisdom and street instincts in certain things she does. She's also very protective. She's bitten three times that we know of, all more or less justifiable, but biting incidents nonetheless. We had her on very short leash in a place that wound up getting pretty crowded. She's pretty well socialized, but had no experience with crowds. A woman (a stranger), meant well, but, without asking if she could pet her, bent down near her face to give her a pat. She snapped faster than anyone can imagine. She never actually bit the woman because I saw it coming and hauled her up close. Even still, that's her first strike.

Years later she was in for some grooming. The groomer failed to muzzle her and then stupidly turned on a hair dryer behind her ear and went toward her. She turned and snapped at the hairdryer, but got his thumb and drew blood. The groomer apologized, admitting it was his fault, but still - strike two.

Last was a year ago. My son was coming over on his bike. It was dark and we were on the deck after having supper. Everyone was relaxed. Mama was on the steps to the deck. He came in silently and rode to the deck. He startled her. She flew off the deck and attacked him (attacked a dark, shadowy figure approaching silent and fast from a very dark corner). She got his foot, but his pedal brackets saved his toe. As fast as she attacked, she recognized him and licked and wagged apologetically. Still and all, Strike Three.

She also takes not one iota of shit from other dogs. She's never shown aggression, but she has, on a number of occasions, backed down dogs that get in her face.




The little one is just a young, exuberant dog. Mama was sleeping. The little one went for the chew that was within whisker length of Mama's muzzle. I think she snapped because she was startled. The little one appeared, not aggressive so much, as defensive. The scary part of the whole event is that she wouldn't back down, even after Sparkly got bit, grabbed her, and I grabbed Mama and yanked her back. Mama shut up instantly. The little one took maybe a minute to a minute and half (guessing here) to stop be barking.




Picking up the chew toys and putting the little one in her crate had a great calming effect. They were all buddies again today.

[Curmudgeoness]

5. Dogs will be dogs.

The three incidents of biting seem to be justified, or at least understandable. Border collies are all wrapped tight, they are very intellegent and high energy, and get bored if not worked all the time. And of course they are bred to nip, although that is supposed to be at sheep, not you. A challenging breed, and if you have had her for 10 years with only 3 incidents (well, I guess it is 4 now, huh), you have done well. And shih-tzu dogs are really sweet for the most part, I am surprised that your little one would not settle down, but I suppose she was really wound up. I know that feeling. Good luck and I hope this is the last of the problems. Multi-dog households are a challenge. I guess the best is to let them work it out with each other. I bet Mama would settle the little one down.

Give them all a hug!

[Kota]

3. My shih-tsu won't back down

ever. She is four and is very bossy towards my two labs. She is very sweet but if they piss her off she is in their face, they usually back down. But one of the labs is three and I have had to pull them apart. This all three when they were still pups.

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[Stinky The Clown]

6. Doggiedynamics are quite a study.

The little one, it seems to me, was on an adrenaline rush when this happened. Usually she'll bark and make a fuss, but a glance from Mama (or Sparkly or me) and she backs down. We were all taken aback when this happened. And since then, she's been very contrite and well behaved.

That said, she's *always* had it all *over* the big German Shepherd Dog. It is so funny to see the little one run the GSD to ground. We were commenting, just last night, that none of us can ever recall - ever - the GSD getting angry at anything. Not ever. She has a bark that will rattle the windows, and she is always right there when someone approaches, but that's her job. Her nature is to be a huge sweetie to every creature she encounters.


edit to add: How old was your Shih-tzu in that picture? She looks pretty young. The labs are obviously puppies, but I;m not sure about the little one.

[Kota]

8. The big Lab was 12, the little Lab about 4 months

and the Shih-Tzu is a little over a year. The Big Lab is 14 now and still very active. I got the other dogs and it just gave him new life.

[badgerpup]

4. MHO...

:hi:...and I'll tell you right up front that it's derived straight off of Animal Planet:

First, get Sparkly :hug: checked out, just to make sure everything is copacetic. Don't know about doggy mouths, but cat mouths can cause abscesses (long story with which I shall not bore/disgust you).

Second, get Shih-Tsu checked out. Sometimes when a critter develops aggression issues it's because they're not feeling well and this is their way of letting the world know.

If everything checks out OK, then the little Shih Tsu needs to learn that there is ONE alpha female in the house, and that one is named Sparkly.

How you go about doing that...
well, that's where (for me) the water gets too deep and it's all Dog Whisperer and Victoria Stillwell. :blush::shrug:


...and Sparkly is NOT a bad doggie-mama!:hug:

Some of the pure-breds seem to have more issues with their temperament than the ones who can "boast" several generations of "Mom got out when she was in heat, partied till dawn and the owner didn't give a flying BFD" in their background...


Yes, I am biased...:crazy:

[Stinky The Clown]

7. Sparkly went to the doc the next day. She checked out fine.

The Shih-tzu has been calm and respectful to Mama. Mam has been cool abut it all.

I think we're back to normal.

[Warpy]

9. The little one needs some training, that's for sure.

If you know what an "alpha slam" is and how to do it, try it out the next time. Let the dogs know you respect their pecking order but you're always going to be at the top of it.

The point isn't to hurt the dog, it's to establish dominance.

Cats are easier, a squirt gun usually breaks up any arguments.

[badgerpup]

10. I've used the "Mama grab"...

...aka 'scruffing' to get an obstreperous cat's attention on occasion.

I don't pick them up (they're too big for this to be comfortable for them), just grab the back of the neck (hands, not teeth- I'm not that much of a purist! :crazy: ) to let them know this is MAMA talkin', the law is being laid down, and the discussion is OVER. :yoiks:

This usually results in a bout of 'cutoff behavior' (cat IGNORES me)* and some displacement grooming.
Then everything's cool again and they want attention.


* There's an art to this kind of 'ignore'. First the furkid makes certain that you see him, then the back gets VERY DELIBERATELY TURNED...

"Now that I have your full attention, I'm ignoring you."

It's no good if the human doesn't realize they're being ignored...gotta make that point VERY clear.