I have a cat with FIP and have some questions

[Dover]

I've just had one of my cats tested and come back positive for FIP.
Sadly, I know some of you have gone through this with your kitties.
And I know many of you have already done your own research on this
awful disease/virus, so I'm looking for advice.

Here's the situation.

I have several cats. Five are mainly indoor cats but do go outside regularly (inside by nightfall).
The cat who tested positive has been an outdoor cat. She and her brother showed up
at my house as kittens (about 4 weeks old). It's possible their mother had FIP and gave it to them at birth. It's also possible she died from it which left her litter to fend for themselves. All speculative. The FIP-positive cat and her brother are now about 3 years old.
I recently saw the two of them fighting and doing serious damage to each other (biting). She ran off and when she came back a few days later her bite wounds were infected. She has always seemed particularly susceptible to health problems. Although she is huge in size, she's on the thin side and always seems a bit lethargic.

Anyway I took her in to have the infected area cleaned/cut off, had her tested for
leukemia (which she was negative for) and for FIP (results would take a week because it had to be sent off), and brought her home the next day to heal. I kept her inside during the week to monitor her eating and to keep her wound clean, give her antibiotics, etc. She has seemed to be recovering just fine, the wound is healing.
My indoor cats have always hissed at her when outside and whenever she attempted to come in, and this time was no different.

So today I got the bad news about her testing pos. for FIP (1600 was her count). The vet said that with a count that high, in his experience with this virus she is very likely to die of complications within the next year or two, although he's had some that live longer and others that die soon after diagnosis. Regardless of her own health he said that the fact that she has it means it's very possible...even probable...that the virus has been spread to the other cats and that I should probably get them all tested if I want to know their status (usually requiring at least two tests a few months apart).
He said even if they get exposure, some cat's immune systems are strong enough to keep it at bay, but that he's seen breeders and kennels that have had to close down because it was spreading so rapidly. This is the danger when several cats share a space, or one is taking in strays and cats from shelters. And it's not always apparent that they have it initially. He said if I could keep my cats separated that MIGHT be effective, but it sounded like the FIP cat had already been in contact or in proximity with the others, so it's likely they've already been exposed. There is no vaccine for this disease.

So I do plan to have all the cats tested.

Here's my most immediate heart wrenching question: Should I have the kitty with FIP put down (even if she recovers just fine from her latest wound) in order to prevent continued exposure to the others?

I feel pretty certain that her brother will also have it. The brother is more robust in health and seems to recover from any problem much better but I'm sure he's been exposed (his fighting/biting incident with his sister makes that a certainty). So what do I do about him?

I suppose I'm more attached to the cats who are in the house and seem very healthy. (They too were strays, but were with their mother whom I also took in...so they are a family). The mother was just in the process of weening her three when the other two showed up at my door.
So she also fed the new kittens. But those two new kittens became outdoor cats as soon as they were old enough to be on their own.

So that's pretty much it. I have to assume that they were all exposed to FIP, and the testing will
tell me more. But what do I do about my outdoor cats?


Thanks.

[BrklynLiberal]

1. I do not know enough to help..wish I did.

You can check out the internet via google...
There is a DUer-Lorien, who unfortunately, knows a lot about Feline FIP. You can PM her, or perhaps she will see your post and give you an answer.

[Dover]

4. Thanks BL...n/t

[Lorien]

2. There is no test for FIP for a living cat. Your cat probably tested positive

for the corona virus, which 80-90% of all cats in a multi-cat environment (indoors or outdoors) have. Only 2-5% of those cats will ever develop full blown FIP. There's no reason to put your cat down because there's a 95% chance or better that she'll never actually develop FIP. There's also no point in testing your other cats. Cats with full blown FIP can test negative for corona virus, while perfectly healthy cats can have a high positive testing-then be tested six months later and get a negative test result. It's a confounding disease that some vets know far too little about. Again, there is NO actual FIP test for a cat without an autopsy.

Here's more information on the disease from a homeopathic vet:

FIP has to be
the most misunderstood disease on the planet - starting with the poor
choice of name! (Well it was chosen before we knew what the disease was
about, and so many people and vets still don't know what it is about.)

A better name would be Stress-induced Autoimmune Disease. It is
completely preventable if this is understood properly, and if "stress"
is properly understood as well. Stress as perceived by the body, can be
anything from a bad smell to a drug. It's anything that causes the body
to have to react to something adverse. So that can be chemical, physical
or emotional. Avoiding all forms of severe stress will prevent FIP.

For cats, an understanding of their predator instincts is also helpful
to understand what causes them to feel severe emotional stress, and the
result is that major stresses include early weaning, change of address,
frequent threats from humans or other animals - anything that to their
way of thinking will threaten their security.

Severe physical stress includes such things as long-term lack of
nutrition especially too little cat-suitable protein, or being fed too
seldom or physical trauma after a bad accident, or surgery such as
spay/neuter surgery - and especially surgery at an immature age.

Chemical stress is nearly always a major factor in FIP. It includes
vaccinations, especially any given before age 3 months, or any
containing more than one disease organism, or any given closer than a
month apart. The only chemical stress worse than vaccines is any
catabolic steroid like prednisone, dexamethosone, cortisone, etc. Next
worst is antibiotics, followed by all the other drugs. Smokers in the
house, chemicals used in the house, and other chemical stressors are
valid but quite rare as components predisposing FIP.

It takes about three major stresses within a month to raise the stress
level enough to force ordinary corona virus to mutate into FIP virus.
Yet the veterinary profession is inadvertently raising the FIp stats
exponentially these days, and shelters are practically FIp factories now.

Sadly most people are not making the connection. FIP takes a lot longer
to develop than is commonly realized, usually a few months. So the
shelter cats are long gone form the shelter before FIp is diagnosed, and
the connection is not being made to the shelter stresses as the cause.
Likewise, breeders of pedigreed cats will vaccinate them within an inch
of their lives, often add early surgery, and then a change of homes -
causing enough stress in that group, usually within a single month, to
trigger the FIP mutation. But the connection is missed due to the months
before FIP is diagnosed.
Meantime the early FIP of URI or diarrhea or coughing (depending
where the FIP attacks first) is "treated" with antibiotics which
accelerate the FIP - and the vets tend to make it worse as the supposed
infections fail to respond and recur as soon as the (suppressive) drugs
are stopped. All inadvertently of course. That's why I say this is such
a misunderstood disease.
Below is an article I wrote after a typical case a couple years
ago.
So how to avoid FIP is a matter of avoiding those things which are
stresses to cats, and using good nutrition.

Nutrition:
I recommend a food like Propac kitten dry food for all ages of cat - because
it has 34% protein from chicken, fish and egg, which are good sources -
and at least 0.1% of magnesium, a stress nutrient.
It has no cat toxins like garlic, alfalfa, rosemary, or yucca.
It has no by-products (beaks and feet rather than meat).
It has no soy protein (plant protein is harmful to cats.)
It has no carrageenan (as in canned food that gums up the intestines and
blocks good nutrient absorption)
Second best is Annamaet. Third is Nutro Max kitten or the Maxximum
kitten at Walmart!.
ProPac is available through any feed store who will need to order it for
you; it's best of the commercially available dry foods but not perfect.

Always feed cats 24/7 so they do not break down muscle between meals,
damaging kidneys. USe filtered water.

VACCINES:
I do not vaccinate. I use homeopathic nosodes instead. These are safe
ways to build resistance to acute diseases without destroying the
resistance to chronic disease as happens with vaccines. Research shows
that vaccines skew the immune system to the TH-2 side, predisposing
chronic disease, including FIP. Without this skewing FIP can not happen!
If you'd like a consult on the use of homeopathic nosodes I can offer
that; it's $45. One can also use nosodes to prevent adverse vaccine
reactions, which is better than using vaccines alone.

DRUGS:
Steroids are the worst: Research shows that a single prednisone shot
will damage 90% of thymus activity. the thymus is the source of the TH-1
cytokines that resist chronic disease. Skewing the system to the
antibody activity side (TH-2) is of course especially dangerous for
predisposing FIP as FIP uses the cat's antibodies to destroy the cat.
So whatever else you do, do not let steroids be given to a cat, ever.
(Exception is a cat with Addison's disease who can't make the small
amount of steroid they need; I've yet to see a cat with Addison's, but
it is theoretically possible.)

FIP nosode:
The FIP nosode can be used to build resistance to FIP. It can also stop
an early case, though FIP is almost never diagnosed early. Vets usually
do not spot it till the late stage when there is fluid in the belly or
marasmus (muscle wasting). A late case needs VERY intensive homeopathy
and very intensive nursing and even then I am having only 50% success.
It's way better than no success so I plug away at it. It's taken me a
while to get to 50%. I've worked on a little less than 300 cases since
my first success with Mantis in early 2003 - I accept two cases a week.
I would far rather prevent it - it's so easy to prevent - but requires a
total change in philosophy away from the drugs and vaccines that
predispose it. Vets are not ready for such a major change in outlook,
and so there are few people handling cats in a way that guarantees no FIP.

I breed Norwegian Forest Cats and can guarantee no FIp in any cats I
breed if they are handled as I advise. And indeed that's 300 cats bred
with not only no FIP but no other *chronic* disease at all in any of
them. There's the odd acute infection, quickly handled with homeopathy.
In 30 years among my clients (not cats from me) there was one death from
Panleukopenia. I have since been advising a stronger nosode protocol for
panleuk. Sadly the infectious diseases get stronger annually due to the
misuse of antibiotics for viral infections - it gives the virus a field
day to mutate stronger forms while the antibiotic suppresses the cat's
defences.

A comment on interferon use for FIP: In cases of "wet" FIP, research
shows that the cat is producing too much interferon. Adding more would
be counterproductive. In SOME cases of "dry" FIP but not all, the cat
makes a slightly low amount of interferon, and so adding some MIGHT
help, if it is not too much.
Interferon has two jobs internally - it helps the TH-1 cytokines
(which are needed to fight FIP) up to a point. At some point in FIP, the
TH-1 action is perceived (rightly or wrongly) as overwhelmed and then
interferon has a second job which is to trigger the antibody system to
come to the aid of the TH-1 system with TH-2 cytokines. It's a feedback
loop that is NOT good to trigger in FIP.
My advice is NOT to use interferon ever in Wet FIp as the antibody
system is already triggered badly and interferon is too high already,
and only to use it with maybe a single dose in dry FIP *provided* the
vet can test for the current level and finds it low. That test is
usually too much stress, as most cats are very stressed by vet visits
and by taking blood - and more stress is the last thing you need with FIP.

A supplement that helps boost TH-2 cytokine activity is Moducare - cat
dose being 1 capsule a day mixed into food. This would be good for a cat
who has been vaccine damaged to try to restore the damaged thymus activity.

Well I wrote a lot and I sure hope it helps you to never see FIp again.
No charge for this - please spread the word that FIp IS preventable.
please include my signature lines if you pass it on anywhere.]

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Don't include this part if you pass this on. It's poorly written with
regard to feelings of vets etc, and I have just not yet made time to
rewrite it appropriately: I include it for example value as to stress
precursors of FIP for your personal use.


PREDISPOSITION TO FIP - HOW TO PREVENT IT.
(written Dec 2003 by Irene de Villiers)

About a month ago, one of my clients lost a kitten of only 6 months
to FIP. It was so very obvious why the kitten got FIp, and it is getting
more and more common in USA, so that my frustration with this tendency
was really bad that day, and I wrote the following email to my Catwell
email list. (By the way you are welcome to be a member there if you
wish, it is free of course, and there is often good information and
advice there.)
Anyway, this may partly answer the question about why a specific
cat got FIP, incase that is not known.
As fast as the veterinary profession uses vaccinations and drugs, and
reduces the age of surgery to spay/neuter, so fast FIP increases.
It is the same case after case with FIP. ALL the kitties had too
many vaccinations. They might help prevent colds and flu (sometimes),
but they wreck the immune system to predispose chronic disease like FIP
and cancer.
Anyway, attached is me venting my frustration after a kitty of only
6 months died after the owner did everything they knew to
treat the kitten well. The misunderstanding and damage is mainly with
the vets - but also with the catfood companies. I won't touch the fact
of how much money drug companies make from vaccines annually.

Please do NOT take anything here personally!!! It is just to help
explain what may have happened - and so FIP can be prevented in future.


PORTRAIT OF FIP PREDISPOSITION.

Tonight I had yet another cat owner ask me what homeopathy they could
use to help a kitten with FIP. And I sent what advice there is with the
usual heavy heart knowing the chances are still less than 50% for late
stage FIP with the approach I use, and are worse in this case due to
steroids pumped in. (Steroids = cortisone, hydrocortisone, prednisone,
dexamethosone, etc)
I have already lost count of how many have asked about a FIP
kitten/cat this month and it is only the tip of the iceberg. There is an
alarming increasing epidemic of harmful things done to kittens and so no
surprise to me that the FIP rate is sky-rocketing. It's such a
repetitive picture I see, that it sticks out a mile what is causing all
these FIP cases.

It's perfectly predictable, (and also perfectly preventable) since
we do know what triggers FIP - and it has nothing to do with corona
virus (as that is ubiquitous) and it has instead, everything to do with
stress. Yet there seems to be no feline research to study the stress
hormone, cortisol, to check for correlation with FIP mutations, despite
the fact that overwhelmingly the evidence shows that stress predisposes
FIP, in the research studies, and in what is seen in pratise.

Kittens with FIP have a very predictable background loaded with
stress inadvertently piled on by the original owner/breeder, the
shelters, and the vets combined and heaped onto a single kitten/cat.
Food manufacturers add toxins in the food, and then one is supposed to
be surprised that FIP results? We should not be surprised - cats are not
*designed* to handle toxic substances and vacines, drugs etc only do
harm to the chronic disease resistance system mainly supported by a
healthy thymus gland. The thymus is extremely likely and able to be
damaged in a cat, and currently this necessary organ for chronic disease
resistance is not being considered in veterinary care.
Cats also do not have the resources humans do in terms of
detoxification, so it does nto make sense to be surprised that FIP and
other chronic disease states from a skewed immune system damaged by
vaccines, drugs etc, are on the increase. It's a pity as the cat has a
far better chance of surviving a cold with careful nursing than FIP.

Where did common sense get to? If we imagined doing a fraction of
these stressful things to a human baby - and cats are every bit as
sensitive - actually much more sensitive to toxins - the perpetrator
would have been jailed long ago for abuse. But nobody is recognizing
this as abuse - toxicity abuse.
No human gets vaccinated annually just to stuff the bank account of
the vaccine manufacturer and the person charging a fortune for the
vaccination. By the way in USA the vaccine costs the vet about $1 each
and they charge the customer what - $15 to $25 each? It's big income at
the expense of the cat's health - not benefit to the cat. Do you know
that in cats the first vaccination lasts the cat's lifetime provided it
is given *after* 3 or 4 months. Before that the immune system is too
immature to use it, and it just does severe damage to the immune system
- a great FIP predisposition thing to do is to vaccinate before 3 months.
Don't do it!

As with humans - cats only need a vaccination ONCE for life. Do you know
that vaccinating for the same thing a 2nd time is VERY damaging to the
immune system? Research has shown this since 1965 but vets continue to
"make income" from "annual" vaccinations, and it brings in a huge
fortune to vaccine manufacturers. I don't know what mistakes in training
are behind this or whether the inducement to vaccinate is financially
motivated from the drug industry - but it is widespread that vets do not
understand the harm of vaccination to cats.
Do you know that vaccination for more than one thing at a time, is
*extremely* damaging? Booster shots such as a 2nd vaccination a year
later with an even more mature immune system - is better in a group than
singly if it's going to be done - it is still damaging and unhelpful,
but we have laws that force everyone's hand. *First* vaccination if it
is done, *must* be separate for each item however, not several things at
once - and it needs a month between each to be safe.
Do you know that cats can only make antibodies from a vaccine after
they are 3 or 4 months old, the earlier ones just do harm? Do you know
that a vaccination takes at least a month to finish working with the
immune system for antibody manufacture, and the cat's immune system can
not handle *other stress* during that time? Other stress includes
changing homes, weaning, medicines, other vaccines, surgery, caging,
change of diet, travel in a vehicle as examples.

If we planned vaccinations using this well known research knowledge
- known since the mid sixties! - we would not be causing such chemical
stress to kittens and cats that they mutate FIP. Most kittens and cats
get ALL the errors of stress together - combination vaccines, too young
for them, surgery thrown in - etc etc and no month between each stress.

The even better alternative is to use homeopathic prophylaxis with
nosodes. (See my website for ones available for cats.) These are better
than vaccintions as they prevent the disease and do NOT cause any
damage. On the contrary they strengthen resistance to chronic disease.
The vaccines for acute disease may or may not work well, but they all
cause immune system skewing which predisposes chronic diseases (such as
asthma, allergies, arthritis, FIP, FeLV, cancer, fibromyalgia, Cushing's
syndrome, FIV, and the list goes on.)

To give an example of a FIp case and how obvious the chemical and
emotional predisposing stresses were - Check out this "medical history"
I got tonight in owner's words
(names removed, and I put age instead of dates):

Medical history:
* Age 5 weeks – Vaccination for Feline Rhinotracheitis;
Calici-Panleukopenia-Chlamydia; Psittaci. Vaccine given by private party
where he was born, all these diseases at the same time.
is way too young.]
* Age 7 weeks - change to new home. For cats a home change is VERY
stressful.
recently. No month gap between major stresses to recover.]
* Age 8 weeks - Vaccination for FVTCP/C; Feline Leukemia Vaccine by vet;
also clavamox drops; tri otic ointment.
recently and a move thrown in, they add more! And it is still way too
young. The ointment implies presence of infection, no doubt because the
immune system which is not yet developed at this age, was overwhelmed
from the first vaccine. Also it is contrary to FDA requirements as
listed in vaccine inserts to give a vaccine to an unhealthy cat as it
can kill them, and it warns agianst doing so on all vaccine inserts. So
here there is antibiotic ointment indicating the cat is not healthy, and
a 2nd vaccine is given less than a month after the first.]
* Age 8.5 weeks - Albon solution from vet.
immune system. The infection is because the vaccines overwhelmed the
immature immune system. Here chemical stress is piled upon chemical
stress. All this heaping of chemicals into a kitten/cat is almost a
guarantee it will be stressed enough for FIP to develop. Chemical stress
raises stress hormone and so does emotional stress. And vaccination at a
very young age seriously damages the thymus gland which is necessary for
FIP and other chronic disease resistance.]
* Age 10 weeks – Vaccination for FVRCP/C; 2nd Feline Leukemia by vet.
believe how much vaccine was pumped in here with no thought about
long-term immune system damage.]
* Age 3 months - Vaccination for Rabies by vet plus Surgeries: Neuter;
declaw (penicillin, ketamine, torbumesic, fluoride treatment,
tranquilization) Also clavamox drops with torbogesic added.
month ago and they add ALL these stresses. Surgery at this baby age
removes the hormones terribly abruptly for both longbone growth and for
sex hormones. You know how messed up teenage hormones are, it's the same
in cats, and if you do a hysterectomy on a human girl before she is
mature, they usually end up in a lunatic asylum as the sudden change in
hormones is almost impossible to handle emotionally. Spay/neuter needs
to be done after sexual maturity not before. It is horribly stressful.
The Declawing is the most unbelievable cruelty ever invented and makes
me feel sick, I can not comment more on that. But this puts stress way
over the top.]
* 5.5 months – cat has fever and vomiting of early FIP
vaccination, drugs, infections, surgeries etc all heaped into one
kitten. They do not say so but probably there were dewormers and other
chemicals as well.]
* 5.5 months - also metoclopramide injection; orbax; baytril injection;
clavamox drops (15 ml) FIP corona positive test.

* 6 months – lab loses blood sample for confirmation FIP test so
tranquilization; dexameth phosphate injection; clavamox drops.
FIP confirmed.
(dexameth) to make SURE the immune system can not fight back and the cat
will die. Vets give steroids practically automatically when they see FIP
- the opposite of the right thing as research shows a single steroid
injection destroys 90% of the thymus - the part of the immune system
needed to fight back against FIP and other chronic disease! They use
dexamethosone, hydrocortisone, prednisone - any steroid destroys what
little is left of the immune system and predisposes death.]

I hasten to add that the intentions of the owners and vets - are good.
The vet wants to destroy the immune system altogether because the part
of it in the bone marrow is misbehaving out of balance with the thymus.
But destroying the thymus is the wrong answer here. The immune system
needs to be re-balanced, not destroyed. Destroying it guarantees death
from FIP. Homeopathy can often build back health if there is some thymus
left.

I'm sure some person might be able to come up with yet another damaging
thing to do to the poor kitten in this particular case but I sure ran
out of ideas!

Here's the problem: This is *common*!!! Horrifyingly so. But nobody
seems to care or follow up on behalf of kittens, that the above kinds of
stresses are what predispose FIP to mutate from corona and so cause FIP.
The unsuspecting new owner receives a kitten and by age 4 to 6 months it
is dead from FIP, and they wonder where the FIp came from. Well it came
from inside the cat as a result of chemical damage due to chemical and
emotional stress and direct immune system damage.
The supplier, shelter, breeder, vet, etc do not know or do not
realize and do not follow up to see what their toxins and stressful
abuses are doing to the kitten. Vets make money for vaccines etc at the
expense of these abused kittens with multiple unnecessary vaccines and
drugs, add to the abuse in spades and owners lose their hearts, their
budget and their kitten/cat. That's bad - but much worse is the
suffering of the kittens. I find it so horrible! I wish I could stop it!
I suppose I am on a crusade to beat this FIp thing.

But to do so also requires that more people know *what* it is that is
predisposing FIP right left and center these days. There was far less
FIP not that long ago - when multiple vaccines and early surgery and
annual vaccines and pre-age 3 month vaccines were not done, and
antibiotics were not thrown at viruses. Then FIp used to be rare. Sure
there was the odd snuffle - but cats survive that a lot better than FIP.
(Homeopathic nosodes will prevent both safely anyway.)

Sometimes a kitten makes it through the first year, but more and more of
them are dying of FIp by about 6 months like this one in the example.
The rest manage to avoid FIP the first year and then each additional
vaccination or stress gets them closer to getting FIP or other chronic
disease in a subsequent year. Sooner of later one of the things a cat
finds stressful will be the last straw, or there will be more than one
major stress close together such as less than a month apart, and the
damaged immune system can not fend off the FIP no matter how well cared
for the body may be in other ways. Once the thymus is spoiled such as
with too many vaccines or drugs or a single steroid, FIp is prediposed.
If the thymus is working - it will zap any FIp virus before it can get
anywhere, and long before the antibody system kicks in. That only kicks
in if the thymus is *not* doing its job. But in predisposition to FIp
there is no thymus function left - so antibodies DO kick in too early
and too hard due to thymus feedback loops in the immune system and
antibodies are the enemy in FIP.

I know the word declaw is in there as well, another abuse that should be
illegal - but any one of those listed abuses above - I call them abuses
as it is an abuse of the wonderful design of cats from the cat's
perspective (and that's the one I am advocating for)
Or - at least any three of the listed stresses within one month -
in my observation from many many cases, (about 3 a week for years) will
predispose FIP with almost certainty. Here's a starter checklist of
stresses that can predipsoe FIP - do not do these things - and
especially do not let these build up in a short time:

Weaning before 3 months;
new home before 3 months;
early age surgery of any kind;
multiple separate vaccinations same day;
FeLV vaccination; (this is more likely to CAUSE FeLV then prevent it!)
TWO FeLV vaccinations!;
FIP vaccination - this is proved to predispose FIP!
any vaccination before 3 months,
more than one vaccination of a kind the cat has never had before;
vaccines and medications (deworming, antibiotics, etc) same day;
surgery and vaccination same day;
declaw mutilation;
steroids in kittens (or in cats but worse in kittens);
multiple medications the same day.
any drugs, dewormers etc

ALL these things predispose FIP by skeweing the immune system.
The cases I see always had at least three of the above, usually more,
and usually less than a month apart. Cats need TIME and good nutrition
(not by-products but real meat) to overcome each stress, and if a new
one is added before the first is overcome, (perhaps even allow 3 months
to overcome,) that will predispose FIP.

The list of stresses could go on for ever!! Of course the kitten in this
case got FIP.
It should not surprise any vet but it does! It's so sad that this
surprises vets. It's so obvious.

Tonight's kitten is a particularly heart-rending example. The only
surprise is that it did not succumb sooner with that many factors
involved. It has the most easy-going temperament however and that no
doubt enabled it to last all the way to 6 months before some drugs
tipped the scales and FIP won.
Most kittens with FIP have only three or four of the stressors on the
list above. It would probably not take much to allocate stress points
for each item to allow one to predict that any kitten or cat with a
score of a particular amount or higher, WILL get FIP, or will be at high
risk to get it. You can subtract points if some things are reversed. For
example homeopathic nosodes can reverse vaccine damage. Cats can get
over moving stress if handled well.

Personally I would avoid any one of those FIP predisposing factors all
present in one kitten's medical history. The saddest part of all this is
that this medical history is NOT unusual. It is horrifyingly common,
including the predictable FIP end result. This needs to stop!!!

How does one get the word out that all this is NOT okay?
That these very supposedly healthy preventive measures for acute disease
are doing the opposite of helping health, and are predisposing chronic
disease especially FIP. I can go through case after case where someone
approaches me about FIP, and I already know without asking that there
has been lots of vaccination and some other stresses as well, usually
early weaning. We do not toss humans on the street as soon as they can
feed themselves with a spoon.
So why kittens? It is just as scary and traumatic - actually worse, as
cats are supposed to be self-sufficient. Puppies do better as they are
pack animals and will join a group. Cats hunt alone, and even though the
kitten gets to a family who feeds it, the INSTINCT is fear and stress
due to being a helpless small thing instead of a powerful predator with
their self-confidence built up by their mother. The design also only has
a mature immune system at 3 months and till then they need the rich cat
milk of the mother AND the social teachings of the mother which happen
between 2 and 3 months of age. Just because they also learn to eat food
and hunt does not meant they should be weaned.
In the wild cats keep their kittens for 3 or 4 months to show them
gradually how to hunt and fend for themselves, then only they gradually
feel confident. Cats need self-confidence, and they do not get it being
taken from their mother as babies. And then poked full of chemicals that
wreck their immune system. This in my book is abuse, not healthy
preventive measures! The courses vets study should tell themn this!

The vets and shelters especially have it backwards! The cat has a far
better chance of surviving from a cat flu than from FIP.

Homeopathic prevention is of course a great answer as it builds
resistance to illness without damaging something in the process. Please
help me spread the word about what really causes FIP. Far too many
innocent cats are dying for no good reason, it's totally preventable,
and the number for FIP goes up as the veterinary profession uses more
and more vaccines and drugs.
We need to use less chemicals (like drugs) on cats, not more.
Preventing the cat flu viruses and handling them if they occur is a
snap with homeopathic nosodes (and it's inexpensive). Vaccines are not a
necessary or justifiable alternative. Preventing chronic diseases like
FeLV etc is also not effective using vaccines. Vaccines skew the immune
system and predispose those disease. they too can be prevented safely by
homeopathic nosodes, though with no vaccines you won't likely see
chronic disease anyway as cats will have functioning thymus systems.

Namaste,
Irene
--
Irene de Villiers, B.Sc AASCA MCSSA D.I.Hom/D.Vet.Hom.
P.O. Box 4703 Spokane WA 99220.
www.angelfire.com/fl/furryboots/clickhere.html (Veterinary Homeopath.)
"Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt one doing it."

[Dover]

3. Wow that was eye opening and makes so much sense to me!

Thanks so much for the info. Lots to take in. I'm trying to think about recent stressors for the cat that is sick (though it's unclear yet whether she has FIP - I was confusing it with the corona virus). As you pointed out she does have the corona virus and a very high titer count 1:1600 (and some FIP symptoms), so I will wait and test her again in a month or so to see if it has continued to go up. I know the fighting between her and her brother, the surgery for her infected bites, and followup treatments by me were all possible stressors. And if she is fighting FIP in particular, the antibiotics I was giving her for the infection are probably making matters worse. She does seem to be better, at least for now, with a very healthy, normal appetite and thirst. I do wonder if the fighting with her brother might be related to her being sick. He won't let her sleep with him anymore and has changed beds.

It seems that the tests can be unreliable too, so who knows, maybe I just won't bother getting all the other cats tested. If the sick cat has FIP, then they've already been exposed and the rest will be up to their immune systems which I'll do my best to help keep as resistant as possible. And I suppose I could consult with this homeopathic doctor to find out what she might recommend. I know the vet I go to is 'old school' and I haven't found a new one yet.

What, if anything, are you doing to help prevent FIP from getting a foothold in your other cats?
Anything different?

[Lorien]

7. If she has FIP (and hopefully she does not) then she won't last more than a

month or two-so if she's unchanged in a few weeks you'll know that all she has is an infection and the corona virus.There are two types of FIP, "dry" and "wet". The dry form causes fever, vomiting, blindness,lethargy and neurological disorders including seizures, shaking, disorientation, lack of balance and often paralysis in the hind legs. The "wet" form is more common and it causes fever, lethargy, and extreme abdominal bloat with extreme anorexia. Once a cat has full blown FIP they can't pass it on to other cats, but they can pass on the un-mutated virus (corona virus) when they are "shedding virus" as it seems to come and go from their symptoms (thus the positive results one month and negative results another).

Since you have multiple cats it's safe to assume that all of them carry the corona virus, but it's also safe to assume that they could all live to be 20. There are a few simple precautions to take to keep the virus from mutating into FIP; the first is to avoid putting your cats through three major stresses all in one week. About 50% of the kittens adopted from the SPCA develop FIP because the SPCA spays them, worms them, gives them a combo vaccine and sends them to a new home all on the same day. The SPCA knows the risks but does this anyway to save money. If they waited a week or two between each procedure the survival rate would be much higher. Trauma, along with chemical stresses (newer combo vaccines are particularly dangerous) tainted food, surgeries, a new home, etc. can all add up to stress out a kitten's system. Cats over the age of one year and under the age of 13 very rarely develop either form of FIP. The age they are most susceptible is between 3-8 months.The mutation becomes obvious two and a half to three months AFTER the stresses occurred. "Building health" is also a good way to prevent FIP. This thread may help with that: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=243&topic_id=4388&mesg_id=4388

I hope that helps!

[Dover]

8. Thanks so much Lorien. Yes, I hope this will pass without further developments.

I'm learning more about FIP and the corona virus. Nasty buggers! I lost a kitty
to FIP 5 years ago (had had an autopsy done), but was too overcome with grief to
followup on it. For some reason I had remembered the culprit as being feline leukemia, but
recently dug up the vet's report and realized it was FIP. That cat was probably 2 years old.


I copied/printed your very helpful post on pet food choices long ago and have been
on top of that for awhile. And I suppose other than providing good quality nourishment,
love and reducing any "stressors" we've mentioned, the rest is up to the kitty.

Thank you so much for sharing your info which I know was learned under some heartbreaking
conditions.
Illness in ourselves and our loved ones is always an important teacher on many levels.

[BrklynLiberal]

9. This info should be availalbe to every vet and cat owner...

I am printing it out ...with discretion..and showing it to my vet, and everyone I know who has a cat.

Thank you Lorien. I am so sorry for the way you came to have this knowledge, but hopefully it will save many lives.

[femmedem]

10. This is wonderful information, Lorien.

I wish I had read it several years earlier, as my vet gave my asthmatic cat a steroid shot once for his asthma. :(

[badgerpup]

5. Don't have your kitty put down...

I asked my vet about this when my little Merlin was diagnosed with FIP.

One of my Sainted Vets does a lot of work with natural and homeopathic meds...but both of them felt that 'pre-emptive' euthanasia wasn't necessary.

FIP is a wasting disease, but not a painful one, and they told me to just 'keep him comfortable'.
He did become very weak and anorexic, and I fed him and kept him hydrated with a syringe, but I think he forgave me for this.
He seemed pretty happy (a very loving, purry, snuggly boy) right up until his very last day.

I felt that if I had chosen to have him euthanized when he was diagnosed, it would have been for my convenience (to just 'get it over with), and not his welfare (to spare him a very painful, long-drawn-out process- which this would NOT be).
Merlin's life would be brief enough as it was; no need to shorten it any further.

I was ready and willing to have the vet give him a 'boost' on his last day if necessary...I knew it was his last day and he was in the final stages of dying- but it turned out he didn't need it.
He managed the business all by himself, at home, on my lap.

[Dover]

6. Thank you badgerpup

From what I've heard/read so far I'm apt to agree with you. I was just concerned for my OTHER
kitties, worried about them being exposed. But now I understand that not all cats who have the corona virus (and I'm guessing all my cats do) will have it mutate to FIP. I had confused the two stages of this virus and said the cat had FIP in my OP, but Lorien was correct. I had had the test done for the corona virus (there is no test for FIP) and there's apparently no way to know if its mutated to FIP until one does an autopsy. Some vets think the high titer numbers suggest a likelihood for that mutation to take place, while others have said the corona virus tests are not always accurate and definitely not a reliable indicator of FIP. As I said, my main concern was
about having if spread to my other cats if she did have FIP. And there is evidence that the full blown FIP can be passed on, but usually it's a result of a mutation of the corona virus...and that
will depend on the immune health of the exposed cat. Or at least this is how I have interpreted
the info I've read on the corona virus and FIP so far.

But there are signs that a cat has FIP (there is a wet and dry version with different symptoms). So far, at least, my cat seems to be recovering just fine from her recent injuries (even though the titer for her corona virus is very high). She's healing, eating, drinking and urinating/defecating normally. She has always been a bit lethargic (some might say 'laid back'), seems to have a general immune weakness (gets sick easily, prone to infections, slow to recover) and is on the thin side. So she may be predisposed to the mutation leading to FIP and eventually die of it. But for now she's doing okay.