Doggie Vasectomy. Help DU !

[doublethink]

Yes doggie Vasectomys !!! I know I know ... they are rare. but online I've read that some Vets do them ....

I'm sure someone on DU has gone this route instead of Neutering (castration)? Neutering is definitely OUT as an option for my dogs as far as I am concerned from what I've learned in the last few days. Neutering to prevent testicular cancer, to change my dogs behavior, etc... etc... are not arguments I buy, or am willing to risk in my doggies .......

The testicular cancer argument seems to me like someone just saying go ahead and cut your own arm off and you'll never get cancer there either. Anyway, I trained my dogs for about the last 2 years the way I like them, and I don't need them going 60% to 70% docile on me in messing with their testosterone. They are two males who used to brawl with each other all the time ... but now only like once every couple of months. They just needed attention and some guidance. They are very active and so am I .... (they were about 2 years old when I came into their life, and they are 4 years old now) They have a huge back and front fenced in yard, no problem with 'roaming' and they get along with other kids, dogs etc ... that come to the fence. Completely housebroken, help keep the gophers under control, on and on .....

Anyway If anyone knows of a Vet that does Doggie Vasectomy's somewhere in San Bernardino, Los Angeles, or even San Diego County's (So Cal) I am willing to drive .... oh and any idea as to approximate cost of the procedure? I'll start calling Vets in the next couple of days anyway but just thought I'd drop this post in here for reference.

Thanks !


note: I may .... not real soon though get them two females for companionship (but don't need the puppies) .... yard is huge, they are small (mix Jack Russel Terrors & Mutt) and if they are 'fixed' (Vasectomy) their licensing fees go way down.

note 2: yeah yeah ..... two females will probably bring 'dominance' issues into the household .... but we'll deal with that problem if and when that occurs. :)

[roody]

1. Nuetering them is not a big deal.

They won't mind one bit. Life will be better for all of you.

[doublethink]

4. Your answer reminds me of Obie Wan Kanobie .....

from Star Wars when he said "move along, nothing to see here, these aren't the droids your looking for" ..... you made me laugh. No offense, but I don't buy it. Maybe that works for you and that's fine. Peace.

http://www.caninesports.com/SpayNeuter.html

[Holly_Hobby]

2. I wish you luck in finding a vet to do vasectomies,

I was not successful. I did wait until my dogs were 2 years old to neuter.

Here is a great paper on both the benefits and serious side effects of neutering and spaying:

http://www.naiaonline.org/pdfs/longtermhealtheffectsofspayneuterindogs.pdf

[doublethink]

3. Thanks for the link Holly Hobby ..... and the good wishes ....

in my quest. I've read quite a lot and talked to a few people on this. Los Angeles County as of this last Feb has made neutering and spaying mandatory. And I'm sure with the population density that they, San Bernardino, and San Diego County has ...... there must be some Vet that performs Vasectomies. I'm in San Bernardino County so 'fixing' is not mandatory here..... yet.

I can understand the argument of keeping the wandering animal population under control and off the streets. And the responsible thing adults are doing to try and prevent that. But as a 'responsible' owner, (they never leave the gate unless leashed) who's taken the time to train, laugh, and award them for becoming who they are ..... well bluntly I just can't see me saying "hey dudes .... lets go get your balls cut off today". Ouch !!

Kind of reminds me of Obama's argument when he said there is no reason to bring a hatchet to the problem .... when all you need is a 'scalpel'. Think he was referring to McCain's spending freeze on everything (Budget) ... and Barack was saying keep the things that work and just cut out the things that you need to. Makes sense to me.

Anyway thanks again and maybe by my calling around to a couple hundred Vets If I have to, maybe it may plant a seed for them to offer alternatives. Have a great day !

[Scout]

11. sounds to me like someone is anthropmorphizing a bit much. n/t

[kestrel91316]

5. A vet's opinion on neutering male dogs:

In a word, DO IT!

Every hit-by-car dog I've ever seen has been an intact male out roaming around looking for females in heat and too distracted to pay attention to cars.

I have seen plenty of perianal adenomas and prostate disease and testicular disease in intact males. All painful, disabling, and 100% avoidable.

Vasectomy does absolutely NOTHING to benefit the dog's health. The only issue it addresses is unwanted puppies.

Castration is what RESPONSIBLE pet owners do.

[doublethink]

6. Thanks for your response.

But there are plenty of other Vets opinions out there that contradict your advice. For me ..... I'm beyond the argument of possible harmful side affects Castration may cause my dogs. I'm just in quest of a Vet that does Vasectomy's ... obviously you don't. Peace.

[kestrel91316]

7. I'm not aware of ANY harm done by castration in the dog OR cat,

other than the known (and to me unacceptable) risk of pediatric anesthesia when they are done too young.

What is the supposed theory about harm from castrations? Do you have any links to articles in refereed veterinary journals? This is all news to me and I am wondering if, now that I only do cats, I have missed some sort of groundbreaking research study that shows this. I don't read any dog articles in the journals anymore (there's enough cat stuff to keep me busy for several lifetimes).

[doublethink]

8. Hey kestrel91316 thanks for the civil discussion on this.

Quickly because I'm running out the door to a house warming party this afternoon .... ummm my response in post #4 has a link from a Vet with some studies done, and Holly Hoby's response in post #2 (link also) covers some concerns. I ran across quite a few others in the last few days and if I had more time would furnish them, but would rather take a moment to discuss maybe the advantages to a Vet who might perform vasectomy's and tubal ligation.

Mainly PROFIT $$$$$$$$$ ;) ..... but also as progressive thinking individuals on DU aren't we supposed to think of alternative ways of thinking to the norm?. Alternatives to just the way things 'are done' and have been accepted over time. Please read the links .... my original post, and the few responses in this thread .... I'm quite sure there are more pet owners who share my opinion on this and are just looking for alternatives for our little buddies.

If I was a Vet .... just from the pure profit motive if nothing else (especially in L.A. county now) I would offer vasectomy's and tubal ligation to pet owners as myself. Sometimes things being made 'mandatory' brings out the rebels in society you may not think ever existed because they really had no reason to protest.

We could argue all day on the 'humane' or 'inhumane' aspects of any form of this subject, and the advantages or disadvantages .... but sometimes we just won't agree will we.

And since Vets who offer this service are RARE .... man if I was a Vet I would learn the procedures (vasectomy's, tubal ligation) and start marketing the alternative in the L.A. area. You might be surprised. Gotta run .... enjoy the rest of your day. Peace.

[undeterred]

9. In terms of finding a veterinarian who does the procedure:

The vet schools in California are on this page:
http://www.veterinaryschools.com/dvm-schools-colleges-programs.html

I don't know which one is closest to you. If I were you I would call them and ask if anyone there does the procedure or if they can recommend anyone practicing in your area who has been trained there. I don't think most vets know how to do a vasectomy, and its more complicated than castration, so find someone who has been trained at a teaching hospital (or teaches now). The last thing you need is someone figuring it out on your dogs...

My last dog had to have a lot of care at the University of Wisconsin Vet School - they were terrific and not more expensive than a regular vet.

[doublethink]

10. Thank you very much for the information !!!

Very much appreciated ..... sincerely :hug:

[dropkickpa]

12. Neutering

Neutering to prevent cancer is VERY valid. I work in cancer research and there are several cancers DIRECTLY linked to the effects of testosterone, which is manufactured in the testes. A vasectomy will not remove that risk. Your arm analogy makes no sense, your arm isn't a hormone producing gland, the testes are.

Since your male dogs already have a history of fighting, I would NOT under any circumstances introduce females into the household as it would be a pretty irresponsible thing to do, especially if both males are both hormonally intact. Introducing a female dog into a household where neutered males have a fight history has triggered fighting, I don't want to imagine what introducing one into a home with hormonally intact males would do.

I know many people who compete with their dogs in a great variety of high drive high energy sports (Schutzhund, weightpull, agility, flyball, herding, coursing, etc) and none of them have seen any difference because their dogs were neutered. Their dogs are well trained which is the most telling factor in their behavior after neutering.

If you don't like the look of your dogs not having balls, get neuticles.
The surgery and recovery for a vasectomy is going to cost a lot more than a neuter (which should, honestly, only cost about $80-120/dog tops).

[MiniMe]

13. You would be surprised which ones are dominant

Don't tell me, you're a guy, right? Anyway, I do rescue, and believe it or not it is usually the females who are dominant, and especially 2 females together can cause problems. No, it doesn't always, but from what I have seen it is common.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

14. Get their balls cut off and stop anthromorphizing

BTW, bringing bitches into the house will probably raise some dominance issues. They'll probably be dominating your tough, manly (because they have balls) little dogs.

:eyes: