I hate to flood this place w/ Zooey threads, but the verdict is: FIP.

[iconoclastic cat]

At least, this on the authority of the very experienced "home care" vet who put Zooey to sleep tonight.

I'm officially freaked out. Zooey could've had the "dry" kind that waits for 6-10 years the turns their brains to mush. And it's contagious. Could all my cats have this?

I'm bringing them in for tests on Saturday.

And even if they are positive, what the hell can be done for them?

[kestrel91316]

1. Cat vet weighs in on FIP:

There is nothing to be gained by testing the other cats for "FIP", IMHO. The test should actually be called a "coronavirus test". FIP is not caused directly by the coronavirus (which is normally harmless), and most cats will test positive for it at one time or another in their lives. FIP is due to the body's aberrational response to a mutated form of the virus that they already have, usually due to overcrowding, poor nutrition, untreated chronic other disease, etc. The body develops an immune-mediated blood vessel inflammation, which causes either the "wet form" where the cat gets a chest or abdomen full of sticky proteinaceous fluid, or the "dry form" where they get granulomas (lumps) in various organs.

The best thing to do to decrease the risk of FIP developing in your other cats is to ensure they not overcrowded, not chronically stressed, and have great nutrition, a clean environment, and no un-treated or inadequately treated chronic problems. And don't bother with the FIP vaccine - it is not considered either safe enough or effective enough for general use.

[iconoclastic cat]

2. Hi, kes. I was hoping you'd be around.

Yeah, from what I'm reading, testing is pretty unreliable and treatment is unpredictable. All of our cats were all off-the-street stray kittens, but their nutrition is very good. I suppose 5 cats in a one-bedroom, 1800 square foot apartment might have been crowded, but we were always very clean. Zooey did have several chronic problems, almost all involving her anal glands becoming infected about once a year. I hope they weren't stressed, but we just had a baby five months ago and moved two months ago, so who knows.

So, you don't think I should vaccinate the rest of our cats? Everything I'm reading corroborates what you've said.

I just don't want to go through this again. I'd at least like to know if any of the other cats will go this way. I guess there may be no way to know that.

Thanks for your advice, kes.

[kestrel91316]

8. IMHO there is no rationale for "vaccinating" against what is essentially

an immune-mediated disease. If anything, vaccination can potentiate this disease, as shown in the Cornell study (but never replicated). One of the most important things you can do, given your cats/square foot situation, is NOT replace the cat with another. Be happy with the ones you have, and keep on top of their midical issues.

Treatment of FIP with steroids is merely palliative. It is incurable.

[iconoclastic cat]

3. I found a Cornell U. page on FIP:

http://www.vet.cornell.edu/fhc/resources/brochure/fip.html

Not very encouraging.

[Lorien]

4. Check your inbox

:hug:

[kestrel91316]

7. Fortunately, this is an uncommon disease in the well-cared-for,

uncrowded housecat population.

Los Angeles has an ordinance limiting households to three cats. If people obeyed that, we would see even LESS FIP.

[meti57b]

10. We have three cats, but they are always on top of each other ......

in some newly favorite spot for the day. At night, they sleep on top of each other on my bed. I hope that doesn't put them at risk for FIP. They are exclusively indoor cats.

[kestrel91316]

11. Not to worry, cuddling is not the problem. FIP arises in cats

that have a very common,normally harmless intestinal virus which mutates in individual cats under conditions of EXTREME chronic stress (overcrowding, poor sanitation, poor nutrition, untreated parasites, etc). It is a disease of feline "poverty" for the most part (though not ALWAYS).

[meti57b]

13. Thank you

[iconoclastic cat]

15. Hold on, now--Zooey was the most pampered cat ever.

She had her own velvetine bed, and we fed her the best food we could afford. Granted, we had four other cats, too, and it may have been a little crowded in a 1900sq foot apartment, but we were very clean and attentive pet owners. Personally, I think Zooey's immune system was never quite right: She would get colds and allergy problems every year, and her anal glands seemed to get infected about once every four or five months. But that cat was never in a filthy or stressful environment. Hell, we have one litter box per cat, all of which I scoop out every night and change completely every week! Not to mention that we gave her so much attention and care.

Maybe the move from that apartment to our condo did it. Or maybe my daughter being born. But both of those happened in October, three months before Zooey became ill.

[kestrel91316]

16. I never meant to imply that alllcats with FIP were victims of

really bad owners! Stuff happens. But we do know that sever chronic stress and pre-existing illness/malnutrition/parasitism are involved in a lot of FIP. Some cases don't fit the bill. AND because it is almost impossible to confirm a diagnosis of FIP in many cases, it is possible that some of these "FIP" cats do not, in fact, have FIP. It is a mystery wrapped in an enigma.

That said, most of the cases I see have overcrowding/malnutrition/major stress as a precipitating factor in their background.

[iconoclastic cat]

18. I couldn't bring myself to let the vet do a necropsy.

Even just taking brain tissue was too much. I felt she'd been through enough. One of the vets said it could have been encephalitis, too...now I'll never know.

On edit: It could've been the stress of the move and baby. But it's not as if we could have skipped either of those.

[kestrel91316]

20. I had a patient a few years ago that I was pretty sure had FIP:

young cat from a rescue situation and overcrowding, came in with a persistent fever over a period of weeks and weeks,and poor appetite (except for clay cat litter, which she nibbled on aimlessly). I found absolutely nothing on blood panel and UA. Went to an internal medicine specialist who did a battery of complex tests: ultrasound, CT scan, CSF tap, biopsies of everything, blah blah blah. Nothing the least bit abnormal. Still the fever and pica persisted, and the cat wasted away. Finally euthanized. They did a full necropsy (these owners had essentially unlimited funds - famous musician with dozens of hits years ago) and the only thing they found at all was the brain tissue on special staining came back positive for FIP. THAT'S how hard this disease can be to confirm, sigh. I think they spent almost $10k, and no cat at the end of it.

[iconoclastic cat]

22. Zooey did have a low-grade fever during a few visits, but that was

over the course of several years.

[kestrel91316]

24. I consider anythng between 100 and 103 normal in the cat, depending on

individual circumstances. If it's a hot day and the cat has had a hot car ride, up to 104 is normal if the cat has not been acting sick.

What sort of temps were they seeing in Zooey?

[iconoclastic cat]

25. Between 100-104, I know that.

I just wish it had never happened. I was hoping she'd be with us for a lot longer.

[Tammie]

5. My experience with FIP

In January 1995 I stupidly took in a cat without first having a vet check him out. I thought he was lost because he looked healthy and was declawed and it was so cold out, January in Chicago. At the time, I had two cats Tammy 15 y/o and Dixie 7 y/o. About two weeks later, the new cat got very, very sick and I took him to the vet. As the vet was trying to treat him, he died. The vet suspected FIP. In a panic I took Tammy and Dixie in for testing. They both tested positive for FIP. I was sick over my stupidity. Tammy died later that year, cancer under her tongue. However, Dixie is just fine and I still have the old girl. She just turned 18 years old. Every blood test since 1995 that Dixie's had included a test for FIP and ever since the test has come back negative. I don't know how valuable the FIP test is.

I'm very sorry to hear that Zooey didn't make it. I was really pulling for her, she was such a beauty. I know how heartbroken you are. Just remember you did the best you could. Zooey knows that. Take good care and rest in peace, Zooey.

[kestrel91316]

12. The "FIP" test is worthless as such. It should be called a coronavirus

test. Coronavirus is ubiquitous in the cat population, so it is common for perfectly healthy cats to test positive. Pay it NO mind.

[IndyOp]

6. I am very sorry about your having lost Zooey -

:cry:

:hug:

Please let us know what is happening with your other babies...

[CountAllVotes]

9. wow I'm so sorry to hear this

I lost a kitten to FIP many years ago (late 1970s). I was told not to adopt another kitten/cat for quite a long time because FIP can live in your place of residence.

It was awful, yes. I hope I never see it again. :cry: I feel for you, believe me.

CountAllVotes

[iconoclastic cat]

14. Actually, the relationship between FIP and FCoV is like AIDS to HIV.

FIP, as I have learned, is an autoimmune disease. It occurs in 8-20% of cats who have the FCoV virus, which is what can be tranmitted. Cats can't catch FIP from one another, just as humans cannot catch AIDS from one another. What's frightening is that not only do all my other cats definitely have the FCoV by now (it's transmitted by saliva, etc.), but an estimated 80% of all cats have it. It can mutate in a kitten to the "wet" form of FIP, or just sit like a time bomb. There's no way to know when or if FCoV will ever mutate. Worse yet, there are no reliable tests or vaccines. The current vaccine actually can set off the mutation.

All I can do is just hope that none of the others come down with the mutation.

Thanks for your thoughts.

[kestrel91316]

17. Fortunately the mutated form does not appear to be very infectious,

if it is at all. They think that every cat with the disease FIP had the harmless coronavirus mutate inside THAT cat.

Then the mutated virus causes the body to overreact and develop immune-mediated blood vessel inflammation, and then leaky blood vessels or granulomas.

SARS did a similar thing, IIRC (it's also a coronavirus).

[iconoclastic cat]

19. I hope none of the other four come down with it. That will kill me.

I will be 100% through with pets if that happens. Too painful.

[kestrel91316]

21. Relax. They will probably all be just fine. FIP is not considered

contagious. It's situational and individual. Probably genetics has a lot to do with individual susceptibility.

[CountAllVotes]

28. I am not up to date on FIP

I was told it was HIGHLY contagious but this was in the late 1970s. I guess things have changed so do NOT let my comments upset you as I could very well be absolutely WRONG. I hope I am WRONG.

I remember after the kitten died I was very sad. I waited for a couple of months and I didn't know what to think. I adopted another kitten not too long after that and it lived to be about 14 years old and no more FIP was ever seen in my household.

I did not know there were vaccinations for FIP now available. I just know that FIP it is deadly and that it kills quickly.

I remember I was sterilizing the entire apartment I lived in after the kitten died with bleach. Luckily it was a small apartment.

Hang in there and don't let fear run your life. That is why I adopted the kitten that lived to be 14. I remember another vet said to me, "Just think of how many cats and kittens are dying right now that need a home. Don't let this stop you from adopting!"

If your other cats were exposed, they'd probably be sick by now would be my guess. I'd just be certain to get rid of anything that the cat that died had contact with if possible.

CountAllVotes

[Grateful for Hope]

23. I am so sorry to hear about Zooey

My heart goes out to you.

RIP little Zooey.

[iconoclastic cat]

26. Thanks.

Still pretty painful. I haven't even told anyone at work because my eyes well up every time I talk about it.

[mike_c]

27. my sincere condolences for your loss of Zooey....

That is just the hardest thing ever. I'm so sorry.

[iconoclastic cat]

29. Thanks.

I have to say, taking into account my emotional reaction so far, if anything ever happened to IconBaby, I'm pretty sure they'd have to strap me down and put me in a padded room.