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hippywife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-12-11 10:35 AM
Original message
Have you ever wondered?
Edited on Sat Feb-12-11 10:38 AM by hippywife
Am I the only odd person around here that wonders about food things that are so common? Like what were the hows/whys of the origin of eating butter on bread, for example.

Though we may never know, my guesses would be it began for several reasons. Most likely it began in poverty and was preceded by spreading what animal fat could be had on bread to both add much needed calories and to avert constipation in a diet that must mostly have consisted of rough breads, maybe as a side benefit?

I thought this would be a fun little game for us to play together, because I think we'd all come up with many answers to many of the common things we cook/eat and have for thousands of years, just from our common sense approach and experience in our kitchens, without Googling for answers.

Anyone else up to playing this little food brain game with me? Any ideas on the butter on bread thing, or what else have you wondered/thought about and how/why they came into existence and your possible answers?

:hi:
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yellerpup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-12-11 11:20 AM
Response to Original message
1. I always wondered 'why' we have salt AND pepper
on every table and in nearly every savory dish made. Now, salt is not such a mystery but I wondered why pepper is ubiquitous. I looked into it and the reason is simple. Pepper helps your body absorb the nutrients in all your other food. How ancient people figured this out, I don't know, but they have been trading salt and pepper for millenia.
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housewolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-12-11 03:10 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. I didn't know that!
That would never have occurred to me. Thanks for the some new information.

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yellerpup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-12-11 03:47 PM
Response to Reply #4
15. I love food mysteries!
Another one that cues up the Twilight Zone theme for me is that the NAs plant beans, corn, and squash all in the same 'hill' where the nitrogen fixing qualities of beans feed the corn and other chemical changes take place so all three plants nurture each other while they are growing. Then, after the harvest these three foods provide all the essential nutrients humans need to survive. According to some Cherokee mythology, the 'real people' learned how to do this from the 'star people." Dodododo, dodododo.... :hi:
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AlecBGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-12-11 07:45 PM
Response to Reply #15
23. never underestimate the power of 100's of generations of observation
a lot of people tried a lot of weird things over the many millenia. The more astute ones noticed just the kind of phenomena like you mention. "Hey, Running Bear, try planting beans WITH the squash and see what happens. Mine are going gangbusters!"
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yellerpup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-12-11 08:39 PM
Response to Reply #23
26. Most likely explanation.
I have no doubt. :hi:
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hippywife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-12-11 03:14 PM
Response to Reply #1
5. Ah!
I never knew that! Velly, velly interesting. I should eat more pepper than I do then. Bill eats it on just about everything but dessert, and I use it lots in cooking, but I can take it or leave it on the table, usually. :hi: :*
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yellerpup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-12-11 03:35 PM
Response to Reply #5
13. This is such an interesting thread!
Now pepper up that sammich! :hug:
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Tesha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-12-11 03:28 PM
Response to Reply #1
9. Strong herbs and spices hide the taste of meat that isn't exactly "fresh". (NT)
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yellerpup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-12-11 03:34 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. Yep. And chiles kill parasites in meat.
Other antiseptic foods: garlic, onion, cinnamon, thyme, oregano and more I'm sure. These are the ones I'm sure about. :hi:
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trud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-12-11 03:48 PM
Response to Reply #1
16. pepper
How cool is that? I'm usually too lazy to get the pepper out, but now I will.
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yellerpup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-12-11 04:06 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. Not just to make you sneeze!
Grind away with that pepper mill! :hi:
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Warpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-12-11 07:02 PM
Response to Reply #1
21. There was a more practical reason than that in Europe
when it was first introduced. First, they claimed it was an aphrodisiac, pretty much what they claimed about any new substance they came across. Then they realized it would help disguise rotten meat when temperatures were too warm to use the great outdoors as a refrigerator/freezer.

Most spices started out as medicinal herbs and went into culinary practice because they helped the bland fare of the poor taste more interesting.

What I want to know is what kind of starvation drove the first person to eat a sea urchin. Or squid. Or oysters.
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yellerpup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-12-11 08:36 PM
Response to Reply #21
25. The aphrodisiac angle sounds like the marketing ploy
of all time and completely believable that it would work. Likewise, the invention of a peppery dry rub for meat would be welcomed with arms wide open from the first day it appeared at any time in history. Humans observing other animals eating sea urchin, squid, and oysters in times when other food was scarce may have inspired people to take a bite out of the preferred food supply of their nearest competitor. All interesting facts of ponder.
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Tesha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-12-11 01:51 PM
Response to Original message
2. Bread and butter?

I think...

it came from wrapping bread around hot meat to hold it... or using bread as a "trencher"
that would lead to just having the grease on your bread...
which would lead to ... butter!
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hippywife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-12-11 03:15 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. That is another possibility
I had not considered. Good thinking! :hi:
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Inchworm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-12-11 02:17 PM
Response to Original message
3. You are not alone
I have many food wonders each day ;)

On the bread topic, I always wondered how come tortillas are common in, say, Mexico where in US our sanwiches use bread. I always forget to look this up, but I imagine it is just a yeast thing. Then... you have pita bread in middle east... soda bread in Ireland.. Oh! what about just plain crackers or matza.. I'll stop.. no wait! When did folks start collecting yeasts for breads like a sourdough starter, and where... ok, stopping for reals :D

:hug:
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hippywife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-12-11 03:17 PM
Response to Reply #3
7. I bet there are good
answers to all of those "wonders", Inchman. Any theories of your own without researching them?

:hug:
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Inchworm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-12-11 03:23 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. I think it has to do with the equator, beer, and technology
lol

And I think yeast type breads started away from the equator because people like to drink. The basic materials seem very similar in all the breads, so I figure it has a lot to do with the process. Hec, it seems like I've seen documentaries where the woman of a village are making tortilla-like things on a hot rock (so it appeared). That makes me think technology was important.

:shrug:

Fun to wonder. :)
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hippywife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-12-11 03:29 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. Glad you're enjoying the game. :0)
I'm thinking that yeasts probably don't exist in certain arid environments, maybe? :shrug:

I'm playing by the rules and not looking it up. ;)

We can all do that later when we're done with the wondering game and see how close we all came to being right at all. :D
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yellerpup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-12-11 03:32 PM
Response to Reply #3
11. It seems that flat breads seem to originate most often
in hot countries whereas more temperate climates support more complex bread-making methods. Tortillas are just (lime-treated) corn and water, pita bread is whole-wheat and water. I have seen suppositions in print that yeast breads originated where a happy accident of the yeasty by-product of beer and wine-making (throw in a cave) came together in the same small area, perhaps abetted by a longer-than-anticipated absence of the bread maker.
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Inchworm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-12-11 03:42 PM
Response to Reply #11
14. Woohoo! I kinda guessed
sorta kinda.

I guessed equator, beer, and technology lol

I think about seeing cider or grog in movies. It's always cold. The men have beards and everyone is bundled up. Someone got drunk and created fluffy bread :D
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yellerpup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-12-11 03:49 PM
Response to Reply #14
17. I looked it up a couple of months back when I was
working on a bread post for my food blog. Makes sense, doesn't it? :toast:
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Tesha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-12-11 04:30 PM
Response to Reply #11
19. flat breads?


there's no hearth for keeping a house warm - where yeasty bread would be easy...
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yellerpup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-12-11 05:09 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. Good point--
the process makes sense when you look at it organically. :hi:
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housewolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-12-11 07:17 PM
Response to Reply #3
22. Sourdough cultures go back about 5-6,00 years (history of bread & yeast)
About 20 years ago, an archeologist discovered the remains of what appeared to be a large, ancient "bakery" near the pyramids of Giza. Evidence showed it to have been built somewhere around 2500 BC to feed the workers who were building the pyramids. The grain used at that time wasn't any of the grains we use today, but rather an ancestor of our modern strains of wheat called emmer wheat which, along with strains of barley and millet, were important to the Egyptians of that time.

The history of yeast and bread go hand-in-hand. While modern manufacture of what we call "baker's yeast" only goes back aboy 150 years, mankind has been using yeast to turn grains into bread and alcohol for thousands of years.

It's estimated that humankind began cultivating grains in western Asia, and that cereal grains were introduced to Europe as long ago as 8,000 years by way of Kurdistan and Egypt to south-eastern Europe. From there they progressed north to Scandinavia and westward to Britain, arriving there in the Neolithic (New Stone Age) Era around 3400 BC. Such grains were parched on hot stones or boiled into a paste or gruel.

One can only imagine that somewhere along that long timeframe, someone parched some gruel on a hot stone, and "discovered" flat bread. And some "Stone Ager" maay have left some gruel in a warm place, then parched that fermented paste on a hot rock, "discovering" raised bread - what we call today "sourdough" bread. There is some evidence to suggest that the leavening of bread begain in Egypt around 4,000 BC. By the time of the Old Testament, both leavened and unleavened bread were synonomous with nourishment. From the time of the Greeks onward, refined white bread was prized and only available to the upper classes.

While flat breads were made from many varieties of early grains, it wasn't until a new strain of wheat that could be husked was selected that the leavening of bread began to became possible. Leavened bread requires gluten. Wild wheats had hulls that required the grain to be parched in order to separate the grain from the husk, and heat destroys the gluten-forming proteins.

From Harold McGee's "On Food and Cooking" - "Grinding equipment progressed from the mortar and pestle to two flaat sones and then, around 8000 BC in Mesopotamia, to a circular motion that made feasible the eventual use of animal, water and wind power. Fermentation, originally a matter of chance contamination by airborne yeasts, was promoted by the use of a piece of old dough - the method of choice to this day for the most prestigious bakers in Paris, as well as the makers of San Francisco sourdough - and then by the use of yeast-containing beer sediment. By Alexandrian times, around 300 BC, yeast making was a specialized profession in Egypt. Finally, there were improvments in cooking equipments. The open fire was succeeeded by the griddle stone, after which arose the primitive oven, which vontained both coals and bread. The dough was stuck to an inside wall.

"Leavened bread seems to have been a rather late arrival along the northern rim of the Mediterranean. The new wheat was not grown in Greece until about 400 BC and flat barley breads were probably the norm well after. We do know that the Greeks enjoyed breads and cakes flavored with honey, anise, sesame or fruits. The Roamsn satarist Juvenal wrote that his countrymen were interested in only two things - 'bread and circuses' - and huge amounts of wheat were imported from nothern Aftica and other parts of the empire to satisfy the public demand. During Pliny's lifetime, most bread was made in the home by women although a corporation of bakers had been formed in 168 BC."

During the Middle Ages, Arabs brought the windmill to Europe from Persia, and the profession of bread making was established beginning around the 11th century. One use of flat bread at the time was the "trencher", a dense,dry thick slice that served as a plate at medieval meals.

Bread-making was often tied to brewing, as solutions of fermented grains, wheat, rye, hops, malted barley or potatoes and sugar were drawn off used by bakers. These ale yeast solutions (also knows as "worts") were often bitter, however, and tempermental.

During the late 18th and early 19th centuries, much experiementation was done to try to create a form of solidified (or "dried") yeast from ale worts. Commercial-scale production was made possible by Austrain chemists and Dutch distillers around the turn of the century. This new "compressed" yeast was beneficial to distillers but bakers were wary of it as it's strength was variable and it was often bulked out with undesirable fillers. But by the end of the 19th century, British distilleries were producing yeast for the home market and much advertising for such products exists today. However, throughout the 1800's and into the early 1900's, most leavened bread used a either a brewer's wort or a homemade yeast solution (barm). Cookbooks and recipes for bread routinely included instructions for brewing up a home-made yeast which were knows as "patent yeasts". The basis for home-made yeasts was a mash of grain, malted barly or rye, sometimes flour, sometimes boiled potatoes; anything and everything that would give a good ferment and convert into sugar and then alcogol was calll into use for the making of barms. Hops were usually included as a preservative or preventative of sourness. Most barms needed to be seeded with existing yeast from the previous brew. Others were made on a wort left to ferment spontaneously.

The hunt to produce more reliable and efficient sources of bread leaving continued throughout the 1800's. What we know today as "fresh yeast" became commercially available in the mid-late 1800's for bakers. At the 1876 Philadelphia Centennial Exposition, Charles and Maximillian Fleischmann (Austro-Hungarians who had come to America in the 1860's) introduced their new product, a compressed cake of fresh yeast. That became the hallmark of bread baking until America entered World War II, when Fleischmann Laboratories developed and manufactured Active Dry Yeast, specifically to ensure that GIs could enjoy home-baked bread.

So it was the late 1800's that the nature of leavening began to be understood as we learned the secrets of a particular fungus called "yeast". In 1867, Louis Pasteur discovered that yeast is composed of microscopic organisms whose activvity caused fermentation. Around the same time, baking powders were developed to leaven bread. Since Pastuer's time, more than 350 different species have been identified, along with countless additional strains and varieties. Only a few of these play a role in bread leavening. Commercial baking yeast is one specific strain, Saccharomyces cerevisae. An active sourdough culture contains multiple species, none of which are baker's yeast, along with another microrganism, Lactobacilli. The strains of yeasts in sourdough vary from region to region and country to country. Lactobacilli thrive in an acidic environment and produce a variety of mild organic acids, alcohols and other compounds that contribute to the flavor of sourdough bread. One researcher has identified no fewer than 55 separate coumpounds.



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hippywife Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-12-11 08:02 PM
Response to Reply #22
24. There she is!
Our foremost expert on all things bread, especially sourdough. What a font of knowledge.

Thanx for sharing that, B! :hug:
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Warpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-12-11 09:56 PM
Response to Reply #22
27. There is an ancient form of "bread" that is still being made
at Zuni Pueblo. A thin paste of ground corn and water is made, a large flat stone is heated in the fire and then the surface cleaned of ash. The baker just dips her hand in the cornmeal paste and swipes it along the hot stone. It bakes for about 30 seconds, at which time it separates naturally from the stone and can be picked up and stacked. It's sort of a cross between bread and a tortilla chip, but was probably what the earliest flat breads were like before circumstances had wheat paste sit long enough to be inoculated by wild yeasts and get bubbly, resulting in the first raised flatbreads.

Just about any grain or bean flour could be used in this process and the resulting bread, while nearly impossible to butter, can be used to mop up more liquid fare such as stew.
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trud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-11 01:31 PM
Response to Reply #27
29. warpy, sounds like johnnycakes. n/t
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Warpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-11 01:46 PM
Response to Reply #29
30. Nope, completely different.
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housewolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-13-11 12:43 AM
Response to Reply #3
28. I think it also has to do with a seveal things
One being whatever indigenous grains were naturally available in a particular area.

The second being the climate of the area - for instance, high gluten-forming wheat grows best in climates where there is a cold winter, whereas corn grows well in warmer climates

The third being the origin of the folks who settled an area - much of the east and northern parts of the US were settled by northern Europeans, so brought wheat bread making grains and techniques with them. The southwest and Mexico were settled largely by Spaniards who brought Southern European and Mediterranean grains and techniques with them, as well as incorporating more grains and technniques from the indigenous people than those who settled the east and the north.

Wheat, for instance, didn't come to North America until the early settlers and colonists brought it with them. Since there were no gluten-forming grains here until that time, the only bread available was flat-bread.
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