High altitude and dry climate daily breads

[politicat]

The other bread threads got me thinking about the ways I used to make bread in Phoenix, and how I make them now. (As well as how to add flavor.)

In Phoenix, I almost never needed to use gluten, EXCEPT in late June, July, August and the first couple weeks of September. Then, if I didn't, I'd be making bricks. So I added 1 tablespoon of gluten per cup of flour (and my bread machine used a 4 cup recipe) and an extra 2 tablespoons of water.

I also subbed out margarine (hey, I was a poor graduate student!) instead of oil because I could usually get margarine 4 pounds for a buck about once a month and stick it in the fridge. Oil was never that cheap, even with bargain boosters! When I could bring myself to walk over to the co-op after class or lab, I'd buy an onion, but most days, it was too hot, so I just used dried onion flakes (and 1 additional Tablespoon of water per tablespoon of flakes.)

I varied the salt content depending on how much walking I was doing, and there were days when it was sadly cooler to walk from ASU to my apartment (2 miles) than to bear to get into my non-air conditioned car. I never used less than 1.5 teaspoon or more than 3 Tablespoons of salt for a 1.5 pound loaf of bread (a 4 cups of flour loaf). I used Basha's store brand of unbleached flour, unless I happened to be able to work extra hours at the co-op; then I'd use the co-op unbleached flour. I added finely chopped onion or onion flakes (usually 2-3 Tablespoons of the latter) with the other ingredients. This gave the bread a subtle sweetness and a savory aroma. All mixing and baking was with the bread maker, since I could not afford to air condition my apartment and heat it up with the oven, nor spare the time to knead. I also used dry milk powder instead of milk at 2 tablespoons to 9 ounces of water and it seemed to work fine. Water to compensate for dry conditions, the gluten and the onion flakes are NOT included in that 9 ounce measurement.

When I moved up here, to 6,000 feet, I found that I have to use gluten all the time, and I have increased both my liquid and my fat content. I still use 1 T gluten per cup of flour, subbing in the gluten for an equivalent measure of flour. I increased the water measure to 11 ounces, plus the extra water for the gluten and the onions. (I'm still in a dry climate, after all.) I went from 3 T. margarine to 4 T butter or oil, if I have a nice, flavorful oil. I don't use hydrogenated fats anymore, so I can't give a good estimate on those.

I have always spooned my flour into my measuring cups, but I found that if I sifted in the hot summer months, the bread mixed better. I don't find sifting as necessary in Colorado as I did in Arizona.

So, my basic recipe (which should work anywhere) is:
9 ounces water
3 T. sugar
2 1/4 t. yeast (in bottom of pan if making right away)
4 cups flour - 4 T flour + 4 T vital wheat gluten (to make this easy, put one cup of flour in the pan. Then put 4 T. gluten in the measuring cup and spoon in enough flour to make 1 cup, then add two more cups of flour. If you put the gluten directly on top of the water, it tends to ball up.)
2 T. dry milk powder or instant dry milk (there is a difference, but not in this recipe)
1.5 tsp salt (adjust per taste, up to 3 Tablespoons)
3 T. butter, margarine, or oil; solids cut into small chunks and scattered over the top.

High heat recipe:
increase water by 2 T.

With onion:
Add 1/2 cup finely chopped onion to mix

With dried onion:
Add 3 T. and 3 T. additional water to mix.

High altitude:
Add 2 additional T. water with the yeast and 1/2 additional tsp. dry milk. Always use gluten. Increase fat content to 1/4 cup.

To add flavor:

Add up to 2 T. dried herbs (oregano and sage: no more than 1 T.) to mix.
Add 1 T. freshly cracked black pepper to mix.
Instead of salt, use powdered chicken bouillon (available from Knorr in the Mexican section of the grocery) or powdered Tomato-chicken bouillon.
Add 1/2 c. finely grated cheese. This bread MUST cool completely before eating, else the flavor will not develop. Both Cheddar (extra sharp) and dry Italian cheeses work well here.
Add 1.2 c. finely chopped black olives, a 1/2 c. finely chopped sun-dried tomatoes in olive oil, or 3 T. fresh pesto, or any combination of the three to the mix.

Things not to add:
Fresh garlic - it tends to kill the yeast in my experience.
Taco seasoning, furikake, soy sauce instead of salt
heavy amounts of oats or bran without adjusting both yeast and gluten.
Honey on a 1:1 basis instead of sugar.

The above, with the exception of the garlic, just don't flavor the bread well or don't let it rise well. The honey tends to make for a really mushroomy, extra puffy loaf that slices poorly.

Pcat

[eleny]

1. I'm savng your posting - thanks so much!

We're just at about a mile up on our Lakewood street and your recipe and tips will be so helpful.

[housewolf]

2. High-altitude baking

I lived in Colorado at 7,000 ft for several years. I found that the adjustments I most needed to make to bread dough were increasing the water (because the flour is dry due to the dryness of the climate) and a reduction of yeast. With the air pressure so reduced at high altitudes, there is less resistance pressuring the dough to rise that with "normal" measures of yeast, the dough would rise too fast (resulting in a raw-yeasty flavor) or it would over-rise and then fall, resulting in a dense loaf.

Salt also affects yeast, so an increase in salt would result in a reduced leavening from the yeast.

Some of the differences you experience between Arizona bread and Colorado bread may be due to differences in the flour, you may be using a lower-protein flour in CO than what you used in AZ. That might account for needing to add gluten regularly.

You make a great point, though - bread making takes some experimenting to find out what works best for you, adjusting water or flour or other ingredients or procedures, till you find what works best. Sounds like you've got it down now.

[politicat]

3. we tried that using less yeast idea... want some pavers?

Bricks, I tell you.

Just experiment. The worst thing you can get is something you can put out in the yard and feed the birds with. Not a total loss.

Pcat

[NMDemDist2]

4. thanks Pcat, I am sifting everything now and am having MUCH better

results here in PHX

[Warpy]

5. I live at 6000 feet

having moved here from dead sea level in Boston and on Cape Cod.

The thing that allowed me to change the character of my breads from high altitude cardboard to breads that had character and a well developed flavor was following the directions in "Crust and Crumb."

I generally start my bread a day in advance, making a half and half mixture of wheat flour and water with just a PINCH of yeast. I cover it and allow it to rise slowly for 24 hours, either in a cold house in winter or in the fridge in summer.

The next day I add salt, additional flour, and whatever else I'm adding to the particular variety of bread I'm craving. I raise it as usual, punch it down, form the loaves, let them rise, and then bake as usual.

The extra day of slow rising allows the flavor of the yeast and flour to develop fully. What I've noticed about high altitude yeast breads is that they tend to rise a lot more quickly than they do at sea level, and you end up with a bread that tastes like a whole lot of nothing with a poor crumb.

[politicat]

6. I'll try that....

Being a lazy wench with a bad left arm, I tend to use that breadmaker for everything I possibly can, but maybe on weekends I can get Mr. Pcat to do the kneading if I promise to do something for him or something.

I've always had wrist problems, but while I was in Indiana, I strained a rotator cuff, so kneading is a little ummm... painful right now. Who knew that trying to keep a 160 pound guy from falling down could be so bad for one's shoulder?

Pcat

[Warpy]

7. I sympathise

I've had arthritis since I was 14. My only concession to the condition as far as bread goes is the cheapest Kitchenaid mixer I could find. I do all the kneading with the mixer, just finish shaping the loaves by hand.

[politicat]

8. Counter and cupboard space are at a premium

at the moment, anyway... In theory (and we all know how theory works) once we get us and the house moved, we're going to add counters and cupboards along one, currently empty (save for a bay window) wall.

That is, unless we win the publisher's clearinghouse sweepstakes, and then I'm setting the house on fire and we're buying something else.

Pcat

[Warpy]

9. I have a 1952 kitchen with exactly 48 inches of counter space

which is why I got the Kitchenaid mixer instead of a bread machine. I went for versatility.

The mixer sits on top of a piece of furniture so it doesn't take up the 30 inches of space on one side of my sink or the 18 inches on the other.

[politicat]

13. Sounds like the kitchen at the farmhouse.

It's badly designed, no triangle at all. I found myself using the big old kitchen table for everything (and my back aching as a result) and eventually realized my great-grandmother had designed the kitchen to use the kitchen table as the work surface. She was 4'11" and standard counters were too tall for her. Apparently, the extra five inches I have on her makes a huge difference.

I price them every time I go into anyplace that carries them, but I like the smaller appliances I already have that do the things a stand mixer would, and I will admit, I don't relish the idea of the additional cleaning that will go along with the stand mixer.... But who knows?

Wish I could borrow one or lease one for a month to see if I would use it....

Pcat

[Warpy]

14. I lived with Victorian kitchens in Boston

and they were even worse than the 1952 variety since the only things that were built in were the stove and sink. I accumulated a bunch of kitchen furniture, all mismatched but functional. My workspace is a sturdy round pedestal table, not as ideal as a square harvest table, but easier to navigate around in a small space. Martha Stewart would have a CVA if she saw it, but it works.

The stand mixer is sitting on a thrift shop baker's rack which also houses my pottery and more presentable cookware. Cleanup is next to nothing. Cheap Kitchenaid mixers have coated dough hooks and paddle beaters, and nothing sticks to them. It's certainly easier than cleaning most other appliances (food processors come to mind). To my mind it's one of the two essential appliances in a foodie's kitchen, the other being a cheap two speed blender.

What nobody really needs are acres of granite countertops and an appliance "garage." What is it with that, anyway?

[politicat]

17. CVA? Whazzat?

I'll think about it... You know how habits are, though... you get used to doing things one way, and it's so hard to think about changing. But I checked the Mervyn's return policy, and I guess if I REALLY hate it, I can take it back as long as I don't beat it all to hell...

Maybe if I "really" go back to work instead of temping and contracting and consulting....

Hm. I guess I'm just used to my food processor. Everything but the blade gets a spray out into the compost bucket (as long as it's veggie based) and then the hopper and lid go in the dishwasher; the blade gets a hand cleaning. The compost bucket goes outside at night into the bigger bucket in the shed, and the big bucket goes to the community garden with me M/W/F.

[NMDemDist2]

15. hey Pcat, have you thought of just adding longer legs to the table?

you can pick up table legs at most home improvement stores pretty cheap

[politicat]

16. No... because I'm HOME!!

And the only way I'd ever move back into that house is if a) Mr. Pcat died on me (may it not happen any time soon) and b) the family gave me access to the trust fund to renovate it as it must be done (replastering in most rooms, a new roof - and an EPA approved roofer to pull the 70 year old black asbestos under the slates out; a renoing the one bathroom and adding extra pipes to put in a second one, a foundation reseat.... and a total kitchen makeover.)

I'm the tallest person who works in that kitchen, but since I'm rarely there, I'll just live with the 12 in space on the left of the stove, the 24 inch space on the right of the stove, and the 12 inch space on the right of the sink. (I never thought being 5'4" would make me one of the tall ones....)

Now, the home kitchen, where we don't even have a "table" anymore (just a 2 person rolling breakfast bar because it discourages overnight guests in a 2 bedroom house...) .... not needed.

Pcat

[NMDemDist2]

18. ahhhh gotcha! I forgot for a moment you had gone "back home" for a

spell recently

[Warpy]

19. Or you can make up the difference with cinderblock pavers

under the existing legs. If you need to use the table to feed a cast of thousands, you can knock the pavers out from under the legs and get a standard height table back in a flash.

[eleny]

10. Maybe you can use the breadmaker to do the kneading

I have a real old machine and can let it do some kneadng for me. Then I can pull out the dough and let it rise and make rolls or some other shapes. Just a thought since that first knead is the toughest.

[Warpy]

11. The bread machine won't whip egg whites or heavy cream

and the Kitchenaid mixer is stout enough to do both, plus knead the bread.

Funny, you're not the only one I've ever heard of who uses the bread machine to do the grunt work then bakes the bread in conventional pans..

[housewolf]

12. How funny, I just wrote about this on another thread...

I resisted the idea of bread machines for years, thinking them inferior to mixer- or hand-kneaded bread, till I got access to one to experiment with. To make a long story short, I was forced to give up my "bread-elitism" and acknowledge that bread machines to a teriffic job of kneading bread dough.

I rarely bake a loaf of bread in it (although occasionally I do), but I often use it to knead my dough for dinner rolls and cinnamon rolls. It produces a higher-rising, softer and fluffier dough than my mixers do, so I like it for those purposes.

I have a friend who baked bread every single day until her arthritis and carpel tunnel got so bad that she couldn't hand-knead anymore. She was grumpy for a LONG time, missing her freshly baked bread, until she finally got a bread machine to do it for her - it put a smile back on her face.