Agribusiness vs. Local Organic

[hippywife]

Since much of the talk lately has been on food budgets and stretching our dollars for meals, I thought I would get a feel for how all the foodies here feel in this area.

As for myself, I've been doing alot of reading over the past year or so and have decided to vote with my dollars to eat within season as much as I can and support the local organic farmer/producer where possible. It is a little more costly on the food budget but on top of everything else I've read, Barbara Kingsolver's book "Animal, Vegetable, Miracle" which has sealed the deal for me once and for all. I can no longer not do this.

Agribusiness degrades the environment, leading towards a future of unsustainability and food insecurity for the world as a whole, where local organic farming/producing practices replenish the land and don't pose the immediate or imminent harm to our health and environment that agribusiness has/does. Not to mention the fuel costs that go into shipping even organic goods from large producers, most of which are now owned by the huge conglomerates such as Kraft. Many of the original organic brands are no longer independent concerns. http://www.corporganics.org/

The book was written with her kids and her husband, who is a biologist. He points out that agribusiness is very heavily subsidized without tax dollars, which is why they can afford the cheaper prices and still many more times than not deliver an inferior product. So what if I can have a tomato in the winter? Why pay them more than my share of the tax dollars they get to give me produce that is tasteless and has been engineered for one thing only...to be able to be shipped long distances with little harm to it's appearance.

Until we start voting with our dollars and supporting these local families in our own communities, that will never change. Organic farming takes so much more work because they don't take the easy, less healthy route of using pesticides and herbicides, Monsanto modified seeds containing pesticides and are sterile, not allowing a farmer to save seeds from one harvest for the next. They also help preserve heritage strains of vegetables and breeds of animals that have been hardened to many diseases through centuries evolution of their species.

We don't like to see families in our communities lose everything to job outsourcing, yet I feel I inflict the same on the small local farmer with my grocery store purchases. I outsource their income to the giant conglomerates. We decry the media conglomeration, but hardly consider that the same is occurring with our support at times at the grocery store.

From a purely aesthetic point of view, since I love to cook and take pride in creating wonderful dishes, why would I not want the absolute best tasting and healthful ingredients for my kitchen creations? With the obesity rampant in this county, including my own, I can't see any reason at all for not giving this the best shot I can. I know I can't afford to do this as much as I would like to and there are many people who can't, but like everything I believe in, I feel compelled to do what I can, when I can.

What say the hardcore foodies in this group?

(Sorry this went so long and I didn't mean to get on a soapbox but I'm totally convinced this is the way to go for my own health and being able to feed people into the future. Thanx for reading and adding your responses!) :hi:

[JitterbugPerfume]

1. I agree100%

I am so ready to make the necessary changes !Last year I canned and froze local produce , and the difference in taste and quality is amazing.
I have always had a bit of the "hippie" mentality so this is fun as far as I am concerned

I have also saved money in the long run which really makes a difference for me , being a retiree

[hippywife]

2. Cool beans!

And she even lightly addresses and debunks the whole hippie mystique that this movement has been labeled with (even tho I am one somewhat myself.) The folks involved in this are from every possible stripe in every possible area one could imagine. And they proved it can be done!

I have and can grow my own herbs, veggies and melons. What I can't grow and can, I'll buy from the local growers/producers and can, as well. I may only being hitting the grocers for small things like olive oil in the very near future.

I'm so excited about this! Glad you are, too! :bounce: :loveya:

[Gormy Cuss]

3. I try to buy local first, whether organic or not.

In order,
we grow it, or
buy it at the weekly, year-round farmers' market, or
buy from Trader Joe's, Whole Foods, and Safeway/traditional supermarkets in that order.

We spend less than 1% of our food budget at traditional supermarkets. Because we sometimes pay a little more for products at the farmers' market and we try to stick to organics at TJ's and WFs, our food bill is probably about 20% higher than it could be. It would be a lot higher without our year round home grown fruits and vegetables.

We started out with this food buying strategy based on taste and quality but with a little tweaking it became more of a statement against agribusiness. When I buy eggs they cost $6.00 a dozen, but I'm supporting a local farm in the process. We use less than 4 dozen eggs in a year so the difference in budget costs is pretty small. If we used a lot of eggs it would be harder to justify that price. We can afford to pay more for food than many families and it's important to us to support local and small farms and businesses.

[hippywife]

5. Excellent, Gormy!

Most folks can do it to one degree or another. Even if it's a little, if more people did it, it adds up. We are going to start ordering the things we can't grow from the folks who can through the local coop. We already buy our eggs locally and I really don't have the expertise or energy to grow tree fruits. We don't eat much meat at all and don't intend to start so that won't be a big expense at all.

I'm still a little more adamant on the things I have to buy being organic since that's all I'll grow myself. Just not comfortable with the trade-offs in both the areas of health and the environment.

[pipoman]

8. $6.00 per dozen!!!

Holy cow...we had 30 layers a few years ago and couldn't get $2 per dozen consistently to sell our overage. We were giving eggs to family and friends and trading them for other local produce and still had some left over. We lost our last 3 hens this spring. We may get some more next spring, I think I'll limit it to 6 hens this time around there is nothing like free range eggs.

[hippywife]

10. We'll have hens

this spring, too. Everything is already for us to bring them home from the people we get our eggs from now. And they really do make a difference in quality.

[pipoman]

13. They are fun, do you know what kind they are?

[hippywife]

18. Jersey Black Giants.

Rare breed that lays nice brown medium to large eggs. Winter hardy, good layers, slow to put on meat but get very large, gentle. I wanted Buff Orpingtons but I don't want to order from a hatchery for many reasons and I don't want 25 which is the standard minimum shipping order. I can get these local and I believe they have some Orpington in their heritage. We'll get them from the people we buy our eggs from and they will keep them until they are sexed so we can get all hens.

[pipoman]

19. They are supposed to be friendly, not too spooky

We have had silver wyandottes, and light and dark brown leghorns both spooky breeds. The leghorns produced more eggs but they are white shell, most people who want farm eggs want brown eggs. The wyandottes were better eating chickens, we buy straight run then butcher all but one of the cockerels. I think we will go with brahmas next go around. They are very friendly and even follow people around if hand raised. It is good to make friends with your chickens so they can be herded. :D

[Gormy Cuss]

11. This is in the very high cost S F Bay area, remember.

My father who has his own hens had the same reaction. The $6 eggs support a nonprofit educational program for city kids. Regular organically fed, local free range is about $4/dozen.

I could have 3 hens of my own according to zoning regs but we don't use many eggs. Free-range hens to eat bugs would be a plus, but we have wild birds who help there. What I'd really like to have are a couple of weed-eating goats.

[hippywife]

12. Sounds like

a win-win on those eggs! What a great dividend to the community. Very cool!

[pipoman]

20. OIC

in that case good on ya'!

I briefly considered the goats until my mom reminded me of the PITA (literally & figuratively) ours were when I was a kid...I think I'll use the mower. :D

[murphymom]

4. We joined a CSA a couple of years ago

I'm just now going through end-of-season withdrawal, finishing up the last of the onions and winter squash and waiting for next May for it to start up again. If anyone has CSAs (community supported agriculture) in their area that are convenient, I would heartily recommend checking one out. The downside is that you and your family need to have varied tastes and enjoy a wide variety of produce because on a weekly basis you get what is ready to harvest and don't get to pick and choose. It's changed how I do the rest of my grocery shopping, too - I tend to wait to see what's in the weekly share before buying the rest of my groceries so I can tailor my meals to use what I've got. Another drawback for folks on a limited income is that a lot of CSAs require that you pay up-front for the whole season, but if you know ahead of time you can just plan for it and save up. The freshness of the CSA produce I've had has been just outstanding, and ours also does some heirloom/unusual varieties of things that are either spendy or not always available in a standard grocery store. It's also made me realize how much we've lost a sense of the seasons with our food.

I'm trying to apply the eat local principle to my own yard - we inherited 2 pear trees, 2 Italian plum trees, a couple of old apple trees, plus a few rather spindly blueberry bushes when we bought our house a few years ago. The output varies depending on the year, whether we had a late spring or it rained too much and the bees didn't get out, etc. but this year we had a good crop of pears and plums and I canned 2 dozen jars of pear slices! Murphydad ate most of the plums fresh and the deer pretty much got whatever blueberries there were. Wish I could grow a proper vegetable garden, but we're on a hillside lot with no real flat areas. I'm trying to tuck herbs in here and there where I can, but that's about it.

[hippywife]

7. We don't seem to have any CSA's

in our area and I think the food co-op is a better choice for us anyway. It's only $50 for the annual membership and I can order only when I want, what I want.

Since my husband stopped eating meat for the most part, I've found new tastes for things I had previously ignored and new ways to prepare meals. It's a slow process to get to this point but it does work.

For gardening, you may want to look into the square foot gardening method. Check this out!:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=246x5729

I just borrowed the book from the library and it's a really simple concept:
http://www.amazon.com/All-New-Square-Foot-Gardening/dp/1591862027/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1199649558&sr=8-1

You can do this on a small or large scale. Even just a single box on a patio or deck, if necessary. Once one thing is harvested, you stir in a little more compost and plant the next crop in rotation.

Thanx for your efforts in supporting local agriculture. :hi:

[pipoman]

6. We do as much of this as is possible

and this year will be doing much more of our own growing. My dad was a "Mother Earther" from way back, he had (and now I have) every issue of Mother Earth News from the first issue through 2001, if you haven't seen it, they have been espousing green living since long, long before it was cool. Another fun series of books are the Foxfire series (available from your library?), they explain in detail how to do many things which have long been forgotten with progress. Many of those things can be reintegrated into our routine to save energy and live cleaner.

Here's my rant!

We raise our own beef. When we get a steer we do not put a hormone chip in it's ear nor do we give it antibiotic treatments. The result is great tasting beef but lower yield. This is the problem faced by beef producers. Since big business has gotten into the beef business they have put tons of $ into R&D to produce the most weight in the least time with the least feed. I have raised my beef right alongside calves born at the same time which were chipped. The results are over the 18 months it takes to mature a steer for processing both steers ate roughly the same amount of feed and consumed the same amount of water. My steer had a live weight of 850-900lbs while the chipped steer weighed 1150-1200. My beef ends up costing me slightly more per pound than grocery store beef and I have to pay for 1 1/2 years in advance and tend the animal every single day during that time rain or shine. This is why organic beef costs more than non-organic. I have had people in other threads here want to tell me the cost difference is a scam. It absolutely isn't. Market price for beef is per hundred pounds, currently $90-$100 meaning my steer would only bring $900+/- while the chipped steer which required the same resources and work will bring $1200+/-. This difference in price is the difference between making 20% for my labor and investment and loosing 5% on the sale. This was all brought on by big agribusiness but now small farmers and ranchers have to do these things to keep from going broke or they have to sell their organic product for 25% more than non-organic. Same is true of pork, chicken (I can give a great rant about chicken and turkey), turkey , veggies, grains, etc.

I applaud and encourage your choice just be prepared for higher cost.

[hippywife]

9. Good for you, pipoman!

People just don't realize that local organic produce not priced because it's trendy and don't realize what they are paying already in energy consumption, health issues, and their tax dollars to support the robber barons of agribusiness.

Honestly, if we let local farmers go under completely and the mass factory farms destroy the soil and environment completely, what the heck are people going to eat. It may not happen in the next decade or so, but it will happen.

I salute you for your efforts, my friend!

[Gormy Cuss]

22. If you were out here, I'd buy your beef.

My local supplier has grass fed beef and it's delicious. When we drive into San Francisco we can see his cattle grazing on the hills adjacent to the highway. I like that. His stuff is a little bit higher than the stuff at Whole Foods and a lot higher than the supermarket beef but we noticed that his beef is so richly flavored that we eat less per meal.

[pipoman]

23. There is a big difference in beef

a good example is sirloin. We went to some friends house recently who were grilling sirloin steaks. I saw the steaks come out of a package from the local Dillons (Kroger) grocery store. It was the most flavorless chewy steak I remember eating. On the other side, given a choice between T-Bone, rib eye and sirloin from our own slaughtered cattle I would rather eat the sirloin hands down. It is the tenderest, most flavorful and lean cut. It is like it is completely different food.

I don't know if there is merit in buying source verified meats mail order for you, but you might check prices at Krehbiels Meats. This isn't like buying the fancy over priced meats from places like Omaha Steaks, just a small family owned processor. I take my cattle to them for processing. I also buy a lot of pork, and poultry from them. I have been through their (small) packing plant and would eat off of the floor in any area of that plant. I have been in more than my share of packing plants large and small and have never seen one which is cleaner or better run. I know the USDA inspector who monitors their operation (and several others) and he buys all of his personal meat from Krehbiels. Their source verified meats are truly source verified, I know several producers who sell to them exclusively and they are picky. Give them a call if you don't see what you are looking for or if you have questions. BTW their German sausage is the absolute best on the planet..

http://healthymeats.net/store/

[hippywife]

30. You're right, pipoman.

There is a big difference in the taste. We recently had a nice sirloin from a local producer and it was incredible good, juicy and tender.

Maybe not everyone, but I would think most folks could find a local organic producer within 100 mi. of home. Sound reasonable?

[pipoman]

33. Yep, some with a lot of regional name recognition even are

selling in grocery store chains in their region. Most of the ma and pa type processors will walk you through their facility if you ask to see it. My only caution about that would be to keep in mind what they do there and if you would rather not see the reality of it, better off staying in front of the meat counter.

Another way to find a good butcher or processor (there are good and bad in all businesses) is to stop by a farm that has cattle and ask them where they get their personal cattle processed, then go there to buy some.

Another possibility would be to buy directly from the farmer. Now the farmer is not able to sell a steak or some hamburger but they can and often will sell a quarter, half or whole interest in a beef. Most of their feeders will likely have been chipped (growth hormone) as described above. If you have a large freezer or some friends who would like to embark on a little adventure, you could ask that same farmer if he would be willing to sell you a steer calf, not chip it, and feed it out for you. Explain that you understand the cost per pound is higher and are willing to agree on the difference. Maybe agree to pay 120-125% of market when the calf is mature plus a fee to transport the steer to the butcher for you then you pay the processing cost. Currently this would work out something like this: mature live weight 850-1000lbs x $1.20 (current market is around $1.00) + $50 transportation + $200+/- processing so a 900lb steer would cost around $1330. The hanging weight of the steer will be 60%+/- the live weight or 540lbs, the packaged weight will be 65%+/- the hanging weight or 350lbs. So the cost, if done today would be in the neighborhood of $3.80 per pound for everything from hamburger to T-Bones. In 18 months or so you will have a freezer full of organic beef. My father in law does this for a couple who splits the beef between themselves and their adult children as an ongoing gift. They time them to have one ready every December. I think they just got their 4th or 5th last month. This would be an especially good exercise for a family with children or grand children.

My son lived with his mother most of the year in the city, he spent his summers on our little farm, his chores included tending our beef cattle. His respect and understanding for the meat he eats is different than his city friends. Now as a junior he came to live with me :woohoo: and go to school here. I talked him into taking an agriculture class. Now he is hanging out with the farm kids and playing a virtual game called showcattle.com instead of hanging with the skateboard crowd and smoking cigarettes.

I know I'm long winded...thats just me..no apology.

[hippywife]

34. No apology needed. LOL

I completely understand the enthusiasm. Glad your son is taking an interest and it sounds like he has a dad to teach him the right way.

We won't be adding much meat at all to our diet. We really don't miss it much at all anymore. But that is good advice for folks with a freezer and the inclination. We are however considering buying in on some cattle for some real milk, but who knows.

[pipoman]

35. Milk is good

We have an Amish community nearby. There is a dairy farm there that sells dairy products to the public. When we are in the area we stop and get a couple of gallons of milk, butter and some cheese. The milk is whole milk not pasteurized or homogenized, it separates a little in the fridge...makes awesome ice cream, scratch puddings (one of my specialties), and is good (and different) to drink.

[NMDemDist2]

14. i'm lucky to live in an area with excellent range fed beef available locally

DU pals tell me the beef from my area is considered the best at their farmer's markets in the city

I'm putting in a bunch of veggies this year and may add some chickens since we do eat a lot of eggs

i've only been here 18 months and am still getting the place set but with an acre I have lots I can do

what I have done is stop buying packaged food. I get flour and veggies at the supermarket and our meat at the butcher shop and am making most everything from scratch. and I buy the local dairy's products

i notice now that packaged food is way too sweet, I've lost the 'taste' for the high fructose corn syrup (HFCS) that is in EVERYTHING and IMO is the major contributor to the obesity epidemic in the US

so many of us are trying to 'go back to the land' as much as we can within our circumstances. I moved here with that very thought in mind...

[hippywife]

16. Sounds like

you're getting it all together and have a great plan. I, too, attribute the obesity epidemic to the HFCS, as well as Type II diabetes, and we watch for it religiously. It amazes me the things it's in!

Yaaaa, AZ(NM)Dem! Wooohooo!

[pipoman]

15. Food Coops

are another great source for more reasonably priced organic groceries. One of my hippy friends has been buying from the same coop since the 1970's. He goes to a monthly meeting where food is ordered. They pool their needs to buy large quantities wholesale, then get together the next week and pick up/split up their food. I had forgotten about that, I think I will call him tomorrow now that I have more time maybe I'll try it.

Here is a directory by state of food coops.

http://niany.com/food.coop.html

[Warpy]

17. The only New Mexican product I avoid is honey

I don't know what the local bees are eating, but YUCK. I'm not overly fond of clover honey, and it has that flavor plus an even stronger undertaste that I find absolutely disgusting. I can't even bake with it.

My local unionized grocery and the food co op both sell local produce, hot house produce in winter. I find it worth the extra few bucks because it's fresher and tastier, except for the tomatoes.

Tomatoes are only good when they're really in season. Otherwise, I use tomatoes that were canned when they were really in season.

[hippywife]

21. Yep. We go tomato-less

when they aren't in season. Used to buy romas the rest of the year and get a not great but okay tasting tomate but even those just aren't worth it anymore.

[NashVegas]

24. As an Organic Consumer for 15 Years Running

I won't automatically condemn some corporations for simply wanting to be in on the money generated by the organic movement. Not when my new allegedly organic grocer, Whole Foods, makes me feel like an unwanted customer. As long as the quality isn't interfered with, I'll put up with General Foods owning my preferred brand of canned tomatoes.

What I won't put up with is Horizon Organics purchasing dairy product from factory farms.

[hippywife]

26. I really do have a problem with it

because it's a matter of trust. I don't trust the big brand houses. Profit is their goal above all. I also don't like the fact that as the USDA standards for organic and natural have been degrading, they all have supposed "organic" products on the shelf and they pretty much appeared all at once in what seemed like one fell swoop. Something about the whole thing stinks and doesn't add up to anything but taking advantage of looser regulation. And when generic brand Best Choice is marketing products labeled Clearly Organic, I ain't biting.

And the fuel to ship all of that to all corners of the country, if not farther, doesn't add quality or value.

I admit we are eating organic from the long established and far shipped brands right now but once the local farmers' markets open and we start harvesting from our own garden and canning, that all stops. I just feel my life needs to reflect what I believe in. Big brands and big agri go hand in hand.

[NashVegas]

31. I Understand

That's why it's important to stay on top of what's going on and write letters. Congress, senate, USDA, all of them.

http://organicconsumers.org/ is a great resource for alerts and actions.

In 1997 the USDA received 275,000 letters from organic consumers who voiced strong opinions against the attempt to weaken organic standards on the federal level. They'd never seen anything like it - and this was when the WWW was still in its infancy!

The localized movement is great and wonderful, but if it comes at the expense of ceding territory to Agribusiness, via pacification, in the long run we'll lose. Organics will be nothing more than a nifty trend.

[hippywife]

32. I totally agree with you there.

As far as I can see, most of what is labeled organic in the regular grocery stores is merely feeding a trend and trying to reap the profits of that trend.

I feel like if I do start spending more of my dollars locally by joining our food coop, I will be helping to keep from ceding territory to agribusiness by helping the small farmer who's using sustainable methods to stay afloat.

Thanx for that link. I'll keep my eye on it.

[YankeyMCC]

25. Yup

I buy local first then look to organic labels if I must have something that I can't get local.

[hippywife]

27. Hi, Yankey!

Local definitely seems the best way to go all around. If we decry energy policy and gluttony, it makes no sense to endorse it on our dinner tables. :hi:

[YankeyMCC]

28. And it usually tastes much better

particularly the grass fed beef and pork we get now. I cringe when I think of having to eat industrial meat now.

[hippywife]

29. It certainly does.

My husband stopped eating meat three ago when news came out about what is fed to commercial livestock in connection with BSE incidents, not because he wanted to be a vegetarian. He will eat organic, local meat on occasion and it does taste much better. Healthier, too. We will still continue to eat very little meat but on the whole, it's a real treat to have once in awhile.