I am attempting to make brioche, any tips?

[Reciprocity]

My bread making is dismal, but I am plowing ahead anyway. No fear. I have a Kitchenaid with a dough hook and I'm determined after six years to use it. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

[wakemeupwhenitsover]

1. I've always just used Julia Child's recipe from

Mastering & never had any problems. Who's recipe are you using?

[Reciprocity]

2. Julia Child's The way to cook. n/t

[wakemeupwhenitsover]

3. just follow along & you'll be fine.

I think in the Way to Cook Julia bowed to public pressure & took some of the butter out. I'm sure it's been tested & retested & is fine.

Give me a minute & I'll go dig up my copy & glance through it.

BTW, I love brioche. Every Super Bowl I make a homemade sausage & wrap it in brioche. I've also made canapes using it that are fabulous. And there's nothing like brioche wrapped around chocolate. Or brioche toasted with butter & jam. Or brioche warm out of the oven. Or brioche......

[Reciprocity]

4. Now you are making me hungry.

Boy howdy that is one heavy book.

[wakemeupwhenitsover]

5. just looked through both

Mastering & The Way & the only thing that jumped out at me is that in The Way she didn't tell you to let the eggs & milk come to room temp. It also seems to be more of a spiced brioche than a plain one.

Go for it. The worst that happens is that it doesn't come out right & you either eat it or give it to the birds & try again.

best of luck & let us know!

:hi:

edited for screw ups.

[Reciprocity]

6. Thanks for the encouragement. I am proofing the yeast as I type.

[Tab]

12. Probably for food safety reasons

Mastering & The Way & the only thing that jumped out at me is that in The Way she didn't tell you to let the eggs & milk come to room temp.

Must have figured that the old instructions were a lawsuit waiting to happen.

[babylonsister]

7. Don't feel bad. I can't help AT ALL- I have 4 frozen hunks of dough

that have been in the freezer for about 6 months, awaiting my non-existant pizza-making skills.
I finally got around to buying a rolling pin about 2 weeks ago; I'm on my way...eventually.
:silly:

[Reciprocity]

8. I haven't baked in years.

My bread turns out one of two ways. It either crumbles at first touch or is heavy as a frozen turkey, and just as dangerous if you drop it on your foot. I haven't managed to make bread flavorful either. So keep your fingers crossed for me and I'll do the same for you.

[babylonsister]

9. I will, and good luck! nt

[NMDemDist2]

10. all you need is a little help with bread

since I have to look up broiche (or what ever you said) i sure can't help

but here's a couple great links on bread making from our own housewold and H2S

they took me from "I screw up my bread maker bread" to "Wow this stuff is GREAT bread" in about three attempts

here's some links to give you courage...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=236&topic_id=16739&mesg_id=16761

[Reciprocity]

13. Thanks I saved the recipes on MS Works. n/t

[NMDemDist2]

14. be sure you read through the "how Bob" thread. some of the posts

in there are pure gold on what to look for in dough and how the science works

sorry I gave you the wrong link up there, here's the right one...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=236&topic_id=5203&mesg_id=5203

[housewolf]

16. Bread problems

It sounds as though a couple of things are going on -

Crumbly bread often is a symptom that the dough wasn't kneaed enough (didn't develop a strong enough structure to to hold it together), could also indicate insufficient water

Bread "bricks" generally indicate insufficient water in the dough.

The hardest but most important part of bread baking is learning what the "proper consistency" of dough means, yet it's the most critical factor in making great bread. You want a dough that is soft and moist but not sticky (but you do want it a little tacky). What's the difference between sticky and tacky? Lightly touch the dough ball with a finger and pull your finger away. Sticky means that the a lot dough sticks to your fingers and readily pulls away from the dough ball. Tacky means that a little dough tries to stick to your fingers and a tiny bit might succeed, but most of it will stay joined to the dough ball.

Here's a test to know whether your dough is sufficiently kneaded - cut off a small amount of dough (ping-pong ball or golf ball size) and roll it between your two hands to form it into a round ball (it might need a little dusting of flour to keep it from sticking to your hands). Very gently stretch out the dough ball (this takes both hands to do). You're looking for the point at which the dough tears. You want to be able to stretch it out to the point at which it is almost paper-thin, to the point where you can see the web of gluten in the dough and it is not quite but almost transparent.

Something that might help you out is to buy a some frozen dough, let it thaw and come to room temperature and then get your hands on it and see how it feels. There you'll have a sample of fully kneaded (developed) dough that the perfect consistency of dough, and you can learn a lot about how your dough should look and feel.

As for flavor, flavor development comes from slow, cool rising. Time is the friend of flavorfull breads. This can also be accomplished through the use of what is called "pre-ferements" - basically some yeast, flour and liquid that's started before the full bread dough and allowed to ferment for a period of time to develop flavor. Pre-ferments come in a variety of consistencies, each with their own name - a sponge has a batter-like consistency, this is also called a "poolish". A "biga" is a firm, dough-like consistency. "Pate fermente" is also known as "old dough" - it's a piece of yesterday's dough saved off and refrigerated then used as part of today's dough.

Let's see how your brioche turns out and then we can work more on perfecting an "every day" loaf to learn and get your technique down pat.

[NMDemDist2]

11. ok I looked it up, what's with the little sticky up hat thingie?

[housewolf]

15. Brioche is wonderful bread...

so rich from all the milk, eggs and butter! It's traditionally baked in special little fluted pans with it's little "top-knot" but it's also a versitle dough that can be used for many things. If you've never had sticky buns made from brioche dough, you still have a treat coming.

Brioche dough is supposed to be very soft and sticky and a lot of the "work" is can be done in the refrigerator. I haven't looked at Julia Child's recipe but here are some ideas that might help.

- Prior to adding the butter, knead the dough with your KA dough hook until the dough is smooth and shiny byt still very soft and sticky. It should mass around the dough hook but not pull away from the bowl completely.

- Add the butter 1 tablespoon at a time and wait after each addition until the butter is almost completely absorbed into the dough.

- The dough will be very soft and elastic and will stick to your fingers unmercifully, but don't be temmpted to add more flour.

- Turn the dough out into a greased bowl. Lightly spray or oil the top and cover with plastic wrap. Let it rise until doubled, about 1.5 - 2 hrs. Then put the bowl into the refrigerator for about 1 hr to chill the dough - this will make it easier to work with and firm up the butter so that it doesn't separate from the dough. After about 1 hr, gently deflate the dough by stirring it with a rubber scraper or spatula and return it to the refrigerator for another hour so that it will be less sticky and easier to handle.

- Take the dough out of the refrigerator. Turn the dough out onto a well-floured surface and press or roll lit into a rectange, flouring the surface and dough as needed to keep it from sticking. Give the dough a business letter turn (fold the bottom to the middle, then fold the top to the middle), brushing off excess flour and again press or roll it out to a rectangle. Rotate 90 degrees so that the closed side is facing to your left. Give it a second business letter turn. Dust lightly on all sides with flour. Wrap loosely but securely in plastic wrap and then place in a zip-lock bag. Refrigerate for at least 6 hrs and up to 2 days to allow the dough to ripen (develope flavor) and firm up.

- When ready to shape the dough, remove it from the refrigerator and gently press down to deflate it. Shape as desired

- Glaze with an egg glaze - lightly beat together 1 egg yolk and 1 tsp milk or cream. Brush the top of the brioche being carefuly to not drip any on the sides of the pan (can impede rising). Allow it to dry for 5 minutes and then brush a second time with the glaze.

- Use an oiled spatula or dough scraper so that the dough doesn't stick to the spatula/scraper

- Don't allow the dough to rise more times than specified in the recipe as the structure of the dough will weaken and cause the bread to be heavy.

- Chill the dough thoroughly before deflating (punching down) because this could cause the butter to leak out. If this does happen, gently knead the butter back into the dough.

- When shaping the dough, brushh off excess flour so that it doesn't form a hard thin line inside the soft dough.

- Wait until the bread is completely cool before curring into it so that it doesn't collapse.

- Cut with an electric or serrated knife to avoid compressing the bread and crushing it's airy crumb.

Good luck, I hope it turns out wonderfully for you!

[Reciprocity]

17. Thanks for all the help y'all.

The first loaf I made last night at about ten pm tasted great, but not much to look at. I am waiting for the second loaf to double in size before baking today.

[wakemeupwhenitsover]

18. kewl beans!

My bread isn't ever much to look at either. I just don't have the talent to make a nice shaped loaf. Housewolf gave some great tips, but I have yet to get the knack.

Taste is all!

[NMDemDist2]

19. i just re-read Joy of Cooking about bread and it gave me some good tips

on loaf shaping

divide the dough, flatten it out with your hands into a a rectangle shape, then roll it up and use stiff hands to push the dough to the length of the pan (she said it important that the ends of dough need to be tight against the ends of the pan so it will rise correctly) make sure the "seam" in on the bottom and they looked great