Pizza crust

[Tab]

I posted this earlier, but for some reason it didn't go through. I won't make it as wordy this time.

Basically, I've learned to make homemade pizza, and I now have it down to a science, I think. Tastes great, solid dough, cooks up perfectly. I run my oven at 450 and preheat my pizza stones for a full hour. I run a stone on the bottom of the pizza, and another one about an inch from the top, for "surround" heat. Since I figured out how to use the stones, it's great.

The problem is that my son, who's 9, wants nothing to do with the pizzas. He only likes the pizza - and he specifically names the crust/dough as the difference - from the local pizza shops. Doesn't matter which shop, so it's not any particular store - but their crust is different than mine.

And it is.

Pizzeria crusts are - it seems - almost sugary and sweet; they puff up equal to mine, but just have a different taste and texture.

I've looked at a zillion recipes, and none of them SEEM any darn different, but yet, order a pizza from a pizzeria, and you're going to get a "pizza house" crust, which is different than my crust, tasty and rustic as it might be, it's just not the same.

Anyone know the secret to this? I've never worked in a pizza place, so I don't know how they do it, but there's more at work, I suspect, than just temperature.

Oh, and for dough, I've both made my own, and bought it from various places - not a diff (at least that I'm looking for). I've coated with olive oil and not, etc. There's something else going on. Is it JUST heat? I find that a little hard to believe. But maybe it's so.

[Stinky The Clown]

1. Since you say you've bought dough for various places ......

.... (and I'm assuming at least some of the places were the various pizza shops you son likes), then we can eliminate the dough from consideration.

That leaves ....... temperature.

And that **does** make a difference.

Bread gets done at 400 or 450. Pizza gets done at a much higher temperature. Like 750. 600 in lesser shops. But always way higher than you home oven is capable of attaining. The pizza stones help greatly. But mainly they even out the temperature in you oven, not increase it, and they twnd to wick the bottom moisture out of your dough.

[Tab]

2. No, not the pizza places

as they don't sell it...

And temp does make a diff, but I wasn't sure it made a diff in flavor - texture, yes, flavor.. ?

Interestingly, after posting, I found this site: http://www.correllconcepts.com/Encyclopizza/_home_encyclopizza.htm

all about commercial pizza, trouble-shooting, etc. Actually, too much information in a way, since I don't run a commercial pizza shop, but interesting to work through.

I guess it's a combination of dough and cooking temps, but there is a distinct difference between stuff I get in a pizzeria and anything I've been able to produce at home.

Maybe next summer I'll build an outdoor wood-fired stone oven. That shouldn't be too hard, and should be very interesting to work with. Just thinking about that could keep me busy all winter. I can get stone, and I have wood, and I have the land.... mmmmm

[Stinky The Clown]

3. The best set of wood oven plans I've seen yet

are here:
http://www.fornobravo.com/pompeii_oven/pompeii_oven.html

This has been a project on my radar for a few years now. For me, it is a matter of time. In front of that project, by necessity, are a reno of one of our bathrooms, the reno of an investment property, and pahse two of our kitchen facelift.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

4. He's 9 years old

Sorry, Dad, but you're never going to win this one. The only pizza for the boy right now is the store-bought kind. It's part of his socialization and it's just right.

Kids like to buy things, not have them at home. He's making his choices and entering into the world.

He'll change and start loving your pizza, maybe next year. Maybe in nine years. But, he'll come around, and when he's grown up, he'll wish he'd had more of your pizza.

You'll see.

[Tab]

5. It's not that

he's always been touchy about bread products for some reason...

and I agree, I prefer pizzeria style crust to my rustic crust. Mine's not bad, but I can see how (1) it doesn't appeal to a 9-year-old (it's more of an artisan bread crust) and (2) it doesn't have the sweetness of a pizzeria crust.

Which, I think, is the difference. We got a pizza last night from the local pizzeria, and it had a decidedly sweet crust - and yet usually I read about coating crust with EVOO or (on rare occasions) butter, but never anything sugary, and most recipes have just enough sugar to get the yeast going, but nothing more, and yet the best pizzeria crust I get always has a very sweet flavor to it.

?

[Dora]

6. Commercial breads.

Your missing ingredients could be high fructose corn syrup and a dough relaxer.

HFCS is used in just about all commercially prepared baked goods. I understand that it helps with texture and it also ensures even browning. I don't know anything about dough relaxers, but I bet that most pizzeria dough uses one.

[NashVegas]

7. What Kind of Crust Are These Pizzarias Serving?

Traditional NY style?

Chicago?

Wafer-thin?

Assuming it's a NY style, are you "cold rising" your dough? If not, after the first rise, punch it down and divide it, put the doughs into olive oil-coated Rubbermaid containers (with enough room for the dough to expand) and put them in the fridge overnight.

Another option: your grocer's freezer case may have "corn flour" pizza shells that are made in part with corn flour/corn meal. This gives a slightly sweeter taste; it's similar to what Pizzaria Uno uses.