Parallels or VMware Fusion?

[bbernardini]

Which do you prefer?

[Stinky The Clown]

1. I have Parallels and Fusion

Parallels works.

Fusion works.

I prefer Parallels, but I can't tell ya why.

You actually "use" neither package. Once you get them set up, they're just a frame and you use what is inside the frame.

The pain in the ass for both of them is the constant need to reactivate Windows.

I put Windows in a Boot Camp partition. (Activation required)

I put Windows in a Parallels Virtual Machine (Activation required)

I put Windows in a Fusion Virtual Machine (Activation Required)

I pulled a Windows installation from an old PC and put it into a Parallels Virtual Machine (Activation Required)

My Windows Parallels Machine developed a problem so I had to reinstall it (Activation required)

etc. etc. etc.

on edit: In all cases of failure of the virtual machine, the fault was with Windows. Now, is that because Windows is bad or because the virtual software isn't quiiiiiite ready? I honestly don't know.

edit of edit: Windows running native on a MacPro (in a Boot Camp Partition) is a windows dream machine. It is far and away the easiest to set up, fastest Windows you'll ever experience.

No doubt a faster Windows machine can be built, but then you have to configure it. A MacPro gives you eight processors and great accessories and specific drivers to work with them. It is as close to a Mac experience as you can get on Windows.

And it will set your hair on fire.

[moggie]

2. That's if you're using Windows!

I mostly use Linux under Fusion - no reactivation problems there, of course! And the latest Fusion has experimental support for Mac OS Server as a guest, which is a blast: I have a server VM on my MacBook.

Back before Fusion appeared, I tried Parallels, and found it a little unreliable, but doubtless it's improved since then. I've never had any trouble with Fusion.

[Stinky The Clown]

4. I'm actually very new to the Mac world ..... my research into which to choose ......

.... was ***very*** inconclusive. My partner's son is a computer manager of some sort in a shop that does computer animation and uses both Macs and PCs. He said their experience gives a slight nod to Parallels.

I spoke to a Mac sales guy (in an official Mac tee shirt) in the Mac kiosk at Best Buy. He gave a slight nod to Fusion, mainly for a cleaner interface.

Internet research literally goes back and forth, depending on the build number for each. The competition between the two is apparently pretty fierce and they play "one up" about weekly (<--- exaggeration).

The more rational, least hyperbolic online reviews rate them pretty much evenly. One does X slightly better while the other does Y slightly faster. Until that switches with the next build number.

Neither have been all that long out of beta. Could it be that your Parallels experience dates back to a beta?

[moggie]

5. No, it was shipping

I deleted it when I went to leopard, so I can't check the version number, but it was probably in late 2006 or early 2007. It doesn't surprise me that it's improved a lot since then.

[bbernardini]

3. Hmm...maybe I should reconsider, for the sake of my hair.

I don't have all that much to spare these days. :)

[Spritz57]

6. Can you legally use an OEM version of XP or Vista under

Fusion, Boot Camp, or Parallels? I've been considering setting up my iMac with Windows but the salesperson at the local Micro Center thought I would have to purchase a boxed set which was substantially more expensive than the OEM. He said OEM is only for new builds. So for those who have done this, what did you do?

[Stinky The Clown]

7. Technically, you need a legal, full version copy of Windows, but the reason is kinda screwed up.

I'm speaking here about Boot Camp, not Fusion or Parallels.

First - OEM copies of Windows are modified to suit whatever machine they came with. The changes are subtle and mostly have to do with drivers, but they also employ some sort of hardware check and they won't run except on the specific hardware for which they were modified. Don't even bother trying an OEM version.

Now .... what about upgrade versions of Windows instead of full, new, clean versions? Apple says you can't do it. And, essentially they're right. But the reason is screwed up ..... it has to do with Apple's slot drive. There is no mechanical way to eject a disk - only a software implementation.

Were you to install from an upgrade copy of Windows, there is a point at which you need to remove your upgrade disk and put in the qualifying version of Windows so it can check that you have the right to use the upgrade. In my case, I installed an upgrade version of XP and needed to put in my Win98 disk to qualify for the use of the upgrade.

Long story short - you can't do that disk swap with your Mac when installing Windows. None of the Apple hardware drivers are installed yet. During the Windows install, your Mac doesn't know its a Mac and you can't get the disk out of the slot drive.

The workaround is to use an external plug'n'play CD/DVD drive. Put the XP disk in the Mac slot drive and the Win98 disk in the external drive and start the install. When it asks for the qualifying product for the upgrade, just hit the "enter" key and it will find the second drive, see the Win98 disk, and continue the install uninterrupted.

Once you install Windows under Boot Camp, you can bring it in through Parallels or Fusion. You'll just have to reactivate it. You get three activations of a Windows disk before they question you more closely. My own copy already had that. I activated by phone. I told them the machines on which it was installed (an old desktop and an old laptop) were long gone and I was putting it on my Mac. No problem. They reset my clock to zero, leaving me three new installs. They also have not been that big a hassle. I reactivated it each time over the internet, always saying that it was only installed on one other machine. I did this four or five times, what with all the wipe-outs of bad Virtual Machines on my Mac and have had no problems.

[Spritz57]

10. Thanks for the information.

To to be clear though (because I may have mislead you by not being specific enough), a local computer shop, Micro Center, sells cases, mother boards, cpu's, etc. and they sell brand new OEM versions of Windows for new builds. Last summer I had to replace a hard drive in a daughter's computer and bought one of these licensed OEM versions (it comes with a sticker for the case with the license # and I had a choice between XP or Vista for less than $100) and a new hard drive. I don't have any Windows disks--none of the computers with windows came with disks, except the Mac's (and my daughter's rebuilt windows computer but she's away in grad school). So what I was asking, can one use a new authorized OEM version of windows for a Mac? I would hate to make the purchase and find out after the fact. Thanks again for your expertise.

[Stinky The Clown]

11. Okay .... yeah, I did misunderstand. The short answer is "no, you can't"

That OEM version your builder installed, while fully legal, is essentially the same thing as what I described above, except it doesn't even have a "Restore" or "Recovery" disk as do most of the OEM versions installed on machines you buy already built.

Someplace on the machine he built/upgraded/whatever for you are a series of ".CAB" files. These are a special kind of archive file called "Cabinet Files". Each one is more or less a disk image of a floppy disk, the lowest common denominator media on which Windows was available. The problem is that the software to decode them somehow or another links itself to what ever machine it is installed on and won't work on other machines. It might seem that you can copy all the CAB files (there are 15 or 16 of them) and then install from them. But you can't.

When your computer guy installed the OEM version for you (and charged you a seemingly bargain price), he installed it across his internal network from an OEM Master that he owns.

You might look around to buy an old full version of XP like from eBay or some such. Or maybe you know someone who is getting rid of an old Windows machine. The only other caution is that you must have the install disk **with** Service Pack 2. If you don't, it will not work on your Mac.

Now scroll down this thread to my reply about installing Windows in Parallels from another machine.

[Lost-in-FL]

8. I installed Win XP with only Bootcamp yesterday...

And I did not had any trouble at all.

Using Bootcamp I...

1) partitioned the Hard drive and then fixed Leopard by doing a fresh install and running Time Machine (1 hr). Maybe it wasn't entirely necessary but since I am paranoid i reinstalled Leopard again.
2) Once Leopard was back, opened Bootcamp again this time to INSTALL Windows XP. (Another hour)
3) Last, Once in Windows XP I inserted the second Leopard CD issued with the machine (in my case a Macbook Pro) and installed all of the windows drivers by clicking the "setup.exe" file. (20 minutes)

That was all... No need for Fusion or Parallels if you want to partition. If you want to use Win on the background with Leopard then you need to use Parallels or Fusion. I did went that route because I did not want to expose Leopard to viruses or spyware (I might be wrong but like I said... I am paranoid).

[moggie]

14. Maybe not paranoid enough!

A program running in a Windows virtual machine under either Fusion or Parallels can only write to the virtual disk(s), plus any "shared folders" you may have set up. Shared folders allow you to create files under Mac OS and have them visible to Windows in the virtual machine, and vice versa, so a Windows virus in the virtual machine could trash files in your shared folder. But you don't have to use a shared folder, or you could create an empty folder for the purpose and just use it as a short-term drop-box, rather than (say) entrusting your whole 'Documents' folder to Windows. Other than the shared folders and any external disks you plug in, Windows running within the virtual machine will only 'see' the virtual disk(s).

By contrast, when Windows under Boot Camp, there's a theoretical possibility for a virus to trash your whole Mac OS filesystem. Anything running with admin privileges will be able to 'see' all your disk partitions, not just the Windows partition. So a virus could mess with your Leopard files. I'm talking theoretical possibilities here: I don't know whether there are any which actually do this.

Windows running via Boot Camp is running on the bare metal, so it can do essentially anything, whereas Windows running via Fusion or Parallels is running on a virtual machine, so it's constrained. If you're really paranoid about viruses, you're better off using a virtual machine rather than Boot Camp. And if a virus does hit, both Fusion and Parallels provide a 'snapshot' feature, so you could roll the whole virtual machine back to the last good snapshot, and presto, all your files are as they were at that point.

[Lost-in-FL]

15. Thanks for the info!

Like I said, I thought it was safer that route alone. I have to see into this Fusion or Parallels.

[moggie]

16. You can try both for free n/t

[bbernardini]

9. Can you do one Windows install that can be used by both Boot Camp and/or Paralells and Fusion?

Or do you have to have a separate install for each?

[Stinky The Clown]

12. Yes, you can install into Parallels or Fusion from Bootcamp or another Windows computer entirely.

Both Fusion and Parallels (I will refer to both of them, collectively, as "VM" for Virtual Machine software) can install two flavors of Windows in three ways.

First the flavors. You can install Vista or WinXP/SP2. In fact, you can also install any other Windows flavor, back to Win 3.1.1, but the support and drivers aren't quite as good and you can't run in Coherence/Cohesion mode on your Mac. In fact, both packages can run many other OSs, too. But this is about the mainstream versions of Windows.

Next, the three ways to install:

Method One: Install VM and then open it and install Windows directly. You will need to activate Windows when you do this. Windows is installed on a virtual hard drive and uses all virtual hardware. There is no Boot Camp partition. Any software you install is installed on that same virtual hard drive. Since it is, at its core, a giant Mac file, Time Machine backs it up.

Method Two: Install VM. The open it and import an exact copy of another Windows installation available across your network. Let's say you have a Windows machine and just moved over to the Mac. You want to keep the Windows going for now for whatever reason. Under VM, you can import the entire machine and run it on your Mac. As in Method One, you will end up with a giant file that is your Windows. If you have a lot of software on the Windows machine you import, you will have a REALLY, REALLY BIG fie on your Mac. Once imported, like Method One, Time Machine will back you up. Once imported and running, you can also install new software. But since this is not connected to the machine that was your source for this Windows installation, any new software exists only in that giant file on your Mac. Lastly, this method will require a Windows activation.

Method Three: Install Windows under Bootcamp. Then install VM and use the Bootcamp Windows installation. As with all other methods, you will have to activate Windows again, even though you may have just activated it under Bootcamp; to Windows, this is a new install. The difference with this version is that Windows actually exists on your machine all by itself. It *is* the Bootcamp partition, not a virtual hard drive. It has direct access to your Mac's hardware. When you install new software, it is being installed on your actual hard drive, not a virtual hard drive.

I have tried both Fusion and Parallels and tried all three Windows install types on each. I am currently running **only** my Bootcamp install under Parallels. I blew away all other installs and am not using Fusion. This one instance of Windows is serving me very well. I use it often, sometimes many times a day, usually with AutoCAD and a companion program. I always have it open in a "Spaces" window.

[alfredo]

13. Virtual Box

http://www.virtualbox.org/