A few notes on the term "class"

[Naturyl]

This is a bit of a pet peeve, but it also raises some interesting issues surrounding the way we unconsciously accept right-wing framing in our language, in my opinion.

I don't think that progressives should ever use the term "class." It is, unsurprisingly enough, an inherently classist term. Whether consciously intended to do so or not, it reinforces the idea that people of higher social standing are superior people in general. That isn't an idea progressives ought to be lending support to if they can help it.

Some may see this as hair-splitting, but many philosophers and psychologists have suggested that the language we use influences our lives more than realize. The term "class," when used to elevate or denigrate others (ie "low-class"), in fact strengthens and affirms the age-old bigotry which says that higher social and/or economic standing equates to overall superiority.

This kind of analysis isn't for everyone, which is why I posted it in the poverty forum. Still, if I can convince at least a few people to reconsider their use of this ugly term, perhaps the post will have been worth making.

The next time we urge someone to "show some class" or the like, we might do well to stop and think about who we may be inadvertently belittling.

[grannie4peace]

1. what's the poverty forum???

[Naturyl]

2. It's a forum where people discuss the issue of poverty

And some of us who advocate various approaches to eliminating to poverty gather there.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topics&forum=230

[grannie4peace]

3. thanks

i was getting paranoid for no reason

[SheilaT]

4. I want to respectfully disagree.

I think that ignoring the very real class distinctions in this country is exactly why the Republicans have been very successful in getting so many to vote against their own self-interests.

The usage in "show some class" can be interpreted as a slur against the lower classes, and if that's all you're objecting to, that's fine. But to stop using the word "class" at all puts us in the position of being those who don't recall the past and will be condemned to repeat it.

[yellowdogintexas]

5. I interpret the phrase "show some class" to mean show some dignity, some couth

if you will.

I interpret the usage of class warfare, lower classes, etc to be purely economic

but that's just me

[Name removed]

20. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Naturyl]

7. Okay, valid point.

"The usage in "show some class" can be interpreted as a slur against the lower classes, and if that's all you're objecting to, that's fine."

That's all I'm objecting to. Using the term class in that manner is offensive.

[Obamanaut]

6. Can we use "w***ing c****"? or "cl(_!_)" nt

[Naturyl]

8. ??

lol.

[Name removed]

27. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Rupert Giles]

9. I disagree

"I don't think that progressives should ever use the term "class." It is, unsurprisingly enough, an inherently classist term. Whether consciously intended to do so or not, it reinforces the idea that people of higher social standing are superior people in general"

I disagree. The notion of class explains why the rich and powerful are rich and powerful, without this notion we would have no way to explain this reality, and thus we will belive them to be more superior people in general.

[bobbolink]

10. I thank you for raising such a good point.... I'm learning from you on this.

You have made me more aware of this usage, and I'm making a conscious effort to avoid this term. I thank you for that.

It's very interesting that "progressives" can get so defensive about the request to make such a small change in behavior that can have a big effect on .... well, on PROGRESS.

I think some of the defensiveness has to do with the fact that poverty itself isn't a "sexy" issue, and doesn't count for much.

"The next time we urge someone to "show some class" or the like, we might do well to stop and think about who we may be inadvertently belittling."

I'm afraid that might just be the sticking point.... while it's definitely uncool to belittle people by their race, or sexual orientation, etc., belittling poor folk hasn't been something most "progressives" have shown much concern about.

I thank you for making the effort to make this an issue!!

:applause:

[Naturyl]

18. I'm also learning, unfortunately.

After seeing "classy" used one too many times, I made the mistake of bring this up in GD. I expected a negative response but what I got was incredible. It went well beyond negative and into outright unanimous abuse and bullying. If you can tolerate it, feel free to have a look:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x7083308

Ugly, even for DU. A break will be in order after this dies down.

[aaronbav]

11. I use "working people" for ALL of us who WORK including the

so called "middle class"

I reserve terms like elitist Ass wipes for the "wealthy", because most of them are exactly that.

Believe me - if you THINK you are this so called "middle class" - well that can be wiped out in an instant, by job loss. I know - I've been experiencing that since I was laid off last January - I'm certainly NO different than I was when I was still a "working person", but in terms of money - I - We (I have a wife and 2 kids) have been IMPOVERISHED.

IN any event I may occasionally SLIP and call those of you still fortunate enough to be working and making an acceptable wage as "middle class" - BUT two things I will NEVER, EVER do is call the elite bastards (that have taken the fruits of our labor for centuries with INADEQUATE compensation) the "Upper Class"
OR call poor working people the "lower class"

[bobbolink]

12. and what do you use for those of us who are poor and non=working?

Can you understand how we are left out of the equation?

The message is... "You don't count. Get rid of yourselves."

And many are. :cry:

[aaronbav]

13. Impovrished and disenfranchised - I fully understand -

and believe that there MUST be a social safety net to help those who are so crushed by this brutal system we live in - and I believe it IS and should be a government function - not something that should be relegated to religious institutions (the so called "faith based initiatives" - that reeks of religious coercion to me)

I certainly would not denigrate such a person by calling them "lower class". The whole idea of the "class" concept is offensive IMHO.

[bobbolink]

14. I"m glad you understand. I'm so tired of being ignored and overlooked.

And I have a friend who is disabled and not aBLE to be "working poor", and is very depressed at feeling useless, and then to be invisble.

I am giving up on getting "progressives" to even be willing to understand this. Everything is a fad, and now that "working poor" has replaced "poor people", we are left to just wither and die alone. Ignored.

[tosh]

15. Never give up, Bobbie.

The safety nets for the poor that were crafted in the past have been slashed and slashed some more at both the state and federal levels over the past several years.

We are quite likely standing on the threshold of a major shift of focus - away from the elite who profit & prosper at the expense of the rest of us.

No, now is not the time to give up. You are not invisible.

[bobbolink]

16. "We are quite likely standing on the threshold of a major shift of focus "

That shift *IS* happening, and what's very SAD, is that it's NOT happening with "progressives"... it's happening with the Evangelicals! Not people I have anything in common with politically or spiritually, but THEY'RE the ones now taking poverty much more seriously, and I'll go with my best interests... whoever it is who is making poverty an issue, that's where I'll be! Saddened, but that's where I'll be.

As for giving up.... one only has so much gunpowder, as a friend of mine is wont to say. I'm drained from the nastiness, the prejudice, and the lack of support and concern from "progressives". Just telling me to "hang on" doesn't do it.

UNDERSTANDING and support and binding of wounds is badly needed, and it ain't there.

[altogetherooky]

17. Isn't it more how you were raised than current circumstances?

I mean, I was talking to a friend of mine from somewhere in NYC. She has the accent of Fran "The Nanny." I think most people consider that a working-class environment (The Bronx? I dunno). She married a guy who makes a more than decent living and she has a BA herself. They are well into the middle class (maybe upper middle now), yet she comes from that particular environment, which is reflected in both her mannerisms and the way she talks (kind of a tough girl still). We all have seen NBA players who may come from the inner city and now are upperclass earners, yet retain the vestiges of their environs.

[Name removed]

23. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

19. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

21. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[BridgeTheGap]

22. Not using the terms does not reflect reality. The ruling class has supported the notion of a

classless society, though not through communism. The call it the "American Dream." If you aren't living the American Dream, then it's your own fault as anyone here can succeed if they really want to
(so the meme goes).
The ruling class understand the class system very well as they keep it in place. They also understand the value (to them) of getting people to believe that the term "class" is meaningless.
They, however, are very good at demeaning labor unions and the poor. It is nothing short of amazing that so many working people in this country do not understand the importance of unions, often actually abhoring them.
Then there is the focus on "welfare queens" as THE PROBLEM in society, draining our resources, etc.
Who makes the rules? Who are the driving forces behind the direction our country takes?

[Political Heretic]

24. We MUST talk about class conflict. This is a classist society and it must be addressed.

But saying things like "classy" or "that's low class" - I agree is not really the best.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

25. I've been told here at DU not to call rednecks "rednecks" or crackers "crackers"

because then I'm being racist, although I am white and they are too.

:wtf:

I'm not sure what I'm supposed to call them.

[Name removed]

26. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.