Matter Spotted a Millisecond from Black Hole -- But Is It Really Doomed?

[n2doc]

ScienceDaily (Mar. 25, 2011) — The European Space Agency's Integral gamma-ray observatory has spotted extremely hot matter just a millisecond before it plunges into the oblivion of a black hole. But is it really doomed? These unique observations suggest that some of the matter may be making a great escape.


No one would want to be so close to a black hole. Just a few hundred kilometres away from its deadly surface, space is a maelstrom of particles and radiation. Vast storms of particles are falling to their doom at close to the speed of light, raising the temperature to millions of degrees.

Ordinarily, it takes just a millisecond for the particles to cross this final distance but hope may be at hand for a small fraction of them.

Thanks to the new Integral observations, astronomers now know that this chaotic region is threaded by magnetic fields.

more

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/03/110324153753.htm

[HysteryDiagnosis]

1. Lololololololol

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/03/110324153753.htm

Their evidence points to the magnetic field being strong enough to tear away particles from the black hole's gravitational clutches and funnel them outwards, creating jets of matter that shoot into space. The particles in these jets are being drawn into spiral trajectories as they climb the magnetic field to freedom and this is affecting a property of their gamma-ray light known as polarisation.

[laconicsax]

2. Yes, and?

[HysteryDiagnosis]

4. Black holes, Texas tea.... heh!! Iffin you believe... well I guess you want to

believe.

[laconicsax]

5. Please feel free to start making sense at your earliest convenience. n/t

[Occulus]

6. You're dealing with a known proponent of the 'electric universe' "theory" here

[laconicsax]

7. Just because they believe in nonsense doesn't mean they can't make sense at all. n/t

[Occulus]

10. Two words: Omega Minimo

:D

[originalpckelly]

8. Personally, I think it's all turtles.

So in other words, you might be able to eat anyone, and it would taste like chocolate.

Now as to the creation of the universe, that's rather logical: it popped into existence from nothing approximately 13.7 billion years ago.

[trotsky]

36. And someone who believes that ANY mention of the word "magnetic"...

Even if it's in a way that has NOTHING to do with "electric universe" crackpotism... is nonetheless "proof" of the nonsense.

Personally, I just enjoy laughing at that one. : rofl:

[laconicsax]

37. The electromagnetic force "proves" the electric universe.

Let us pray in Maxwell's name.

[HysteryDiagnosis]

9. I make sense when and where I need, I make sense when and where it won't fall

on deaf ears.

[laconicsax]

11. The truth always makes sense. An inability to make sense is an inability to tell the truth.

Please save the fiction for another forum.

[HysteryDiagnosis]

12. The truth is that you believe in neutron stars, with matter that weighs hundreds

of tons per teaspoon full. You also believe that this "neutron star" can spin at the speed of a dentist's drill without flying apart. The electromagnetic force is 40 times greater than the gravitational force, still we are glued to the gravitational theory of stars cuz, they didn't teach us plasma physics in school, nor did the teach us electrical engineering. It's kinda like the pharmcos owning the med schools, different situation, same results.

[laconicsax]

13. They also didn't teach us the Expanding Earth Theory or the Stork Theory of Human Reproduction.

Prove that the Electric Universe is true. You'll go down in history as someone who completely revolutionized our understanding of the universe.

At the very least, explain how relativity, the big bang, and inflation all manage to be confirmed experimentally yet false while the Electric Universe doesn't accurately predict reality but is true.

[HysteryDiagnosis]

14. Oh, you still believe in inflation, to each his own. Electricity is everywhere in space

it's called plasma and it makes up 99 percent of the known universe sorry to tell ya. Birkland currents twist around one another and get galaxies spinning, so says Los Alamos National Laboratories, you prove to me that a neutron star can hold together at some of the ridiculous spin rates touted by astronomers and I'll sell you an Island for a handful of beads.

[laconicsax]

15. So dark matter and dark energy are really just ionized gas? That's big news!

It's also completely contrary to observation and experimental results. Inflation, the big bang, and relativity however, are confirmed by observation and experiment.

I'm telling you, just prove that the Electric Universe is an accurate model and not only will I believe you, but you'll win a Nobel and be remembered as one of the most important physicists of all time.

[HysteryDiagnosis]

16. The electromagnetic force is 39 times greater than the gravitational force, it

diminishes with the distance between objects squared, if you double the distance between two charged particles, the force decreases by a factor of four, and it never goes to zero. Do you have any problem with Los Alamos decreeing that galaxies are created by multi parsec size Birkeland currents?? I thought that would amuse you a little. If you can accept that you can start to imagine just how it all came to be, failing that you can stay where the research dollars are.

[laconicsax]

20. I would be astounded if there was no research into a state of matter.

Los Alamos (or any other lab) studying plasma doesn't mean that the Electric Universe is true. Plasma is a state of matter and studied accordingly.

As for your issues with gravitation, let's take your neutron star challenge, which I now have time to address:

A neutron star (let's use the first discovered radio pulsar) having a mass of 1.4 solar masses (2.79 x 10³⁰ kg) and a radius of 1.4 x 10^-6 solar radii (974 m) will have surface gravity of 1.96 x 10¹⁴ m/s². With a period of 1.34 seconds, the centrifugal force will result in an acceleration of 2.14 x 10⁴ m/s², meaning that the gravitational acceleration is about ten orders of magnitude greater than what is required to keep the star from flying apart.

Funny what can be figured out with high-school level physics.

[HysteryDiagnosis]

21. Some pulsars are reported to be spinning at 33 times/second, let's see how your

high school physics spins that. That would be 60 x 33, ummmmmmmmmmmm somewhere a tad over 1800 rpm, somehow that trips me out. Still have that island for sale.

[laconicsax]

23. Sorry, still not fast enough to overcome gravity.

Even if the same pulsar were spinning at 1800 rpm, the centrifugal acceleration would be seven orders of magnitude less than the acceleration due to gravity. The fastest known pulsar goes at around 42,960 rpm (716 Hz) and is about 1600 m in radius. Assuming the lower limit of mass for such a star (about 1.4 solar masses), the centrifugal force would result in acceleration three orders of magnitude too small to overcome its gravity.

A small pulsar would have to spin at over 5 million revolutions per minute to fly apart.

Why don't you take a stab at the math? You might just find it enlightening.

[HysteryDiagnosis]

24. Why don't you take a stab at understanding plasma physics on a galactic

scale, you will find it enlightening.

[laconicsax]

25. Because reality is much more interesting than aimless conjecture based on wishful thinking.

Seriously, just prove the Electric Universe Theory. You could win a Nobel (it comes with lots of money), and go down in history as the next Newton or Einstein.

What do have to lose by going public with your findings that, if true, would upend the last hundred years of cosmology?

[HysteryDiagnosis]

26. It's being proven on a daily basis each and every time your famed cosmologists

have another wtf moment... and then create some imaginary substance/thing in order to make their "tried and proven" consensus view fit what they are seeing. In reality they don't know what they are seeing in many cases.

[laconicsax]

27. Yes, it is being proven on a daily basis.

-Relativity is proven every time someone uses a GPS device.
-The big bang is proven every time someone sees the CMB or notices that the universe is expanding.
-Dark matter is proven every time someone does the math and sees that there's not enough matter to account for observed gravitation.
-Dark energy is proven every time someone does the math and sees that the universe's rate of expansion is increasing.
-Dark matter and dark energy are proven every time someone does the math and finds that the measured angular distance of features in the CMB matches predictions for a flat universe with 72% dark energy, 24% dark matter, and 4% normal matter.

The ΛCDM model works; the Electric Universe doesn't.

[HysteryDiagnosis]

28. Yes, dark matter and energy, proven to exist by following one bad theory with

another.

http://www.google.com/cse?cx=partner-pub-9300639326172081%3Aqi7dvj9mh31&ie=UTF-8&q=doubts+about+dark+matter&sa=Search

[laconicsax]

29. Oh noes! The scientific community doesn't march in lockstep! That can only mean one thing:

The sun is made of lightning!

:rofl:

[qazplm]

30. so wait a minute

you just asked how a star spinning that fast doesn't fly apart.

he just told you with basic math why that doesn't happen.

so it's now on you to either:

a. acknowledge that his math is correct and that on at least this issue, gravitational theory is sufficient

b. refute his math as incorrect (which I don't think you can do but feel free to try, I'm all ears)

c. argue that one of the basic quantities he uses in his math is incorrect, thus making his calculations incorrect

After you've done that, you would have to tell us what you think the correct answer is as to what the gravitational force would be required or why the gravitational force predicted is somehow wrong.

In other words, simply saying, wow that seems really hard to believe, is not particularly responsive, persuasive or indicative of anything other than nyah nyah nyah nyah nyah.

[laconicsax]

32. This may help:

http://www.holoscience.com/
http://www.thunderbolts.info/

-The universe isn't expanding.
-The sun is made of lightning.
-Terrestrial lightning comes from space.
-Gravity is an "electrostatic dipolar force".
-Craters are caused by electricity, not impacts.
-etc.

[qazplm]

33. I understand

the basics claims, I'm just trying to prod this guy into at least engaging in a more substantive manner about his beliefs.

[sofa king]

38. Well, there's your problem right there.

That there feller has a belief lodged in the middle of his logical thinking. Like a beaver dam, a belief impedes the flow of rational thought, and floods out critical thinking in other areas.

A belief cannot be used to accurately predict future observations (though believers always like to imagine it does), and the belief defends itself by creating antipathy for theories which do accurately predict observations. That's why the knuckle-draggers always have to fight things like evolution, rather than simply ignore them.

[HysteryDiagnosis]

17. Look why don't you look at this picture, then call Los Alamos and tell them how

wrong it is of them to post this web page, maybe they can open your eyes if this page doesn't.



http://public.lanl.gov/alp/plasma/anatomy.html

The structure above is a cut of the plasma universe showing the filamentary currents produced by plasma in flux. Plasma tend to separate into regions according to temperature, density, magnetic field strength, chemical constituency, and other physical properties. Wherever these regions are in relative motion, they are coupled by electrical currents that they drive in each other. Like all electrical currents, the circuit paths are closed, sometimes over very great distances. Thus plasmas in relative motion in one part of the universe can produce prodigious amounts of electrical energy. This energy may be transferred over many billions of light years to burst suddenly from a very small and localized region representing the circuit load.

[laconicsax]

18. The existence of plasma doesn't prove the Elecric Universe any more than...

the existence of rainbows proves that the story of Noah is true.

[HysteryDiagnosis]

19. I'll have two pounds of dark energy with a dark matter chaser. Show it to me. n/t

[laconicsax]

22. Ok, here you go:

Dark matter: Can't be plasma since it doesn't emit electromagnetic radiation but it does interact gravitationally, one effect of which can be seen in this image:

(Note the gravitational lens)

Dark energy: The WMAP data clearly show that the universe is flat, indicating that all observable matter, the majority of which is plasma, only accounts for 5% of the total mass of the universe. Since the quantity of dark matter can be inferred by its gravitational effects and only accounts for less than 1/3 of the missing mass (~25% of the total mass of the universe), that leaves about 70% of the mass of the universe resulting from dark energy.


If you want to inform the cosmological community that they're breathtakingly wrong because plasma accounts for 99% of the universe (rather than less than 5%), go right ahead. I'm sure you've done the research and checked your math.

[qazplm]

31. here's the problem

pointing to another theory that isn't fully proven, and I agree we don't know for sure that dark energy/dark matter is the final answer, is in no way proof of the electric universe theory.

You don't need dark matter or dark energy to describe many separate phenomena that require a view that Einstein was right to a pretty high degree and that we've got a decently high level of the basic forces of the universe.

[Orsino]

34. Okay, but you'll have to admit...

...that the debunking of phlogiston theory, at least, proves the Electric Universe. Chewbacca is a Wookiie who lives on Endor. Ewoks also live on Endor. Therefore, electricity.

Or something. x(

[laconicsax]

35. Touché

Though Chewbacca doesn't live on Endor. He lives with his wife Mala, son Lumpy, and father Itchy on Kashyyyk. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Star_Wars_Holiday_Special">So shall it be.

[jberryhill]

3. Michele Bachmann already found a running mate?

I vote for "doomed".