Is Oil forever - and peak oil a "crisis" used to raise the price of oil?

[papau]

From an article about Dr. J.F. Kenney of Gas Resources Corporations, Houston, Texas

http://www.pnas.org/cgi/content/full/99/17/10976?maxtoshow=&HITS=10&hits=10&RESULTFORMAT=&fulltext=genesis+of+hydrocarbons+and+the+origin+of+petroleum&searchid=1085470440708_510&stored_search=&FIRSTINDEX=0

Dr. Kenney and three Russian coauthors conclude: "The Hydrogen-Carbon system does not spontaneously evolve hydrocarbons at pressures less than 30 Kbar, even in the most favorable environment. The H-C system evolves hydrocarbons under pressures found in the mantle of the Earth and at temperatures consistent with that environment." He was quoted as stating that "competent physicists, chemists, chemical engineers and men knowledgeable of thermodynamics have known that natural petroleum does not evolve from biological materials since the last quarter of the 19th century."

Deeply entrenched in our culture is the belief that at some point in the relatively near future we will see the last working pump on the last functioning oil well screech and rattle, and that will be that. The end of the Age of Oil. And unless we find another source of cheap energy, the world will rapidly become a much darker and dangerous place.

If Dr. Gold and Dr. Kenney are correct, this "the end of the world as we know it" scenario simply won't happen. Think about it ... while not inexhaustible, deep Earth reserves of inorganic crude oil and commercially feasible extraction would provide the world with generations of low-cost fuel. Dr. Gold has been quoted saying that current worldwide reserves of crude oil could be off by a factor of over 100.

A Hedberg Conference, sponsored by the American Association of Petroleum Geologists, was scheduled to discuss and publicly debate this issue. Papers were solicited from interested academics and professionals. The conference was scheduled to begin June 9, 2003, but was canceled at the last minute. A new date has yet to be set.


Gas Origin Theories To Be Studied
http://www.aapg.org/explorer/2002/11nov/abiogenic.cfm
The Mystery Of Eugene Island 330
http://www.science-frontiers.com/sf124/sf124p10.htm
Odd Reservoir Off Louisiana Prods Oil Experts To Seek A Deeper Meaning
http://www.oralchelation.com/faq/wsj4.htm
Fuel's Paradise
http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/8.07/gold_pr.html

[mhr]

1. Abiotic Oil Myth

No Free Lunch, Part 1 - A Critique of Thomas Gold's Claims for Abiotic Oil
by Jean Laherrere
http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/102104_no_free_pt1.shtml

No Free Lunch, Part 2 - If abiotic oil exists, where is it?
by Dale Allen Pfeiffer
http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/011205_no_free_pt2.shtml

No Free Lunch, Part 3 - Proof
by Ugo Bardi & Dale Allen Pfeiffer
http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/012805_no_free_pt3.shtml

See this DU thread for more:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=103x112724#112740

[earthside]

2. Ditto...Abiotic is A-crap n/t

[papau]

5. If not Abiotic Oil, and not fossil oil - what the heck is the origin?

They say that while the abiotic generation of simple hydrocarbons within the Earth has been proven, the production is very minor-especially in comparison with commercial natural gas reserves and the world demand for natural gas.

I like your links -

Author of "Out of Gas: The End Of The Age Of Oil"

56K - http://today.caltech.edu/theater/5602_56k.ram

http://today.caltech.edu/theater/5602_bb.ram

Full Cable/DSL - http://today.caltech.edu/theater/5602_cable.ram

Lecture Page Link Here:
http://today.caltech.edu/theater/list?subset=science

but where is the oil coming from if not fossil - or did I miss the proof that it was indeed 99% fossil?

[mhr]

8. As I Understand The Oil Geology - Analysis Has Shown Trace

Markers for biological compounds in most oil deposits.

This supports the theory that Oil was in fact formed from biological remnants i.e. dead dinosaurs.

[papau]

21. But they are saying the trace bio is picked up as it seeps up?

It would be nice if someone knew!

:-)

[madrchsod]

3. i read a petro science magazine every month.

their take on this issue is the problem is that we are running out of easy oil. the solution is to find ways to recover what is left over and come up with the technology to drill and recover oil in more "hostile" environments. another solution is to develop systems that use less oil and develop alternate lubricants..

[ewagner]

4. Excellent educational materials....

well worth reading and understanding................

[Salviati]

6. Who cares where oil comes from...

Just look at the oil production graphs vs the oil consumption graphs and try to claim there's not a problem. We're going to be consuming oil so much faster than we can pump it, regardless of where it comes from we're going to be running towards disaster.

Plus, even if there were an inexaustable source of oil, that in and of itself would be an environmental catastrophe, or do you doubt human influance over global climate change as well?

[papau]

7. a monopoly exists to control production -and the seeping of oil off the CA

coast is indeed a disaster for other life.

But I do still find this an interesting question.

[eallen]

9. It really doesn't matter how the oil was formed.

That is not important to an oil exploration company. Exploration geologists search for oil and gas by drilling strata where it was previously found, under formations that are able to trap it, and hoping to find reserves in areas of adequate permeability. Seismology provides a view of the formations under the surface, but not to arbitrary depth. There is a lot of interest in deep wells and deep water wells, to the limits of current technology to make such exploration fruitful.

Peak oil is an economic issue. What matters is not how much oil is down there, nor how it was made, but the rate of consumption vs. the rate of discovery. There is every likelihood that a technological breakthrough will change the trends for these at some point in the future. So far, the abiotic oil theorists have not provided such a breakthrough. Until they do, their theories are academic rather than practical. Personally, I would bet on the breakthrough coming from some other direction entirely.

[Coastie for Truth]

10. How does one explain

organo-sulfur compounds, organo-nitrogen compounds, organo-phosphorus compounds, cyclics in such high numbers.

Also, how does one explain the common structure of

Surface
Salt Domes
Natural Gas (porous soil)
Heavier hydrocarbons (porous soil)

especially in rift valleys, and deltas and estuaries.

It's been a long time since I took "Oil and Gas Geology for Dummies" (42 years) -- but I got an A in it once upon a time.

[papau]

11. I feel your age - and then sum! Reading abstracts usually blow me away!

but both sides here seem to have valid points.

Short term, with our oil folks monopoly, there IS PEAK OIL.

Long term there may not be Peak Oil.

I do not have a handle on the path to ending the monopoly and peak oil pricing - hybrid cars, and solar, and wind, and water temp diference engines, and wave power, and alcohol or diesel from organic crops or tar sands all seem to never get a major foothold that actually changes the supply/consumption projections.

[mhr]

12. Short Term Solution

50 Mpg Plus

[mhr]

13. Long Term Solution

[papau]

14. :-) :-)

:-) :-)

:toast:

Do you have one in my "mature body" size?

:-)

[mhr]

16. More Options

[papau]

18. Uphill in snow in Vermont may be a problem!

and then there is mud season!

:-)

[mhr]

20. You Just Might Be Surprised How Well The Velomobiles Do In Snow

With the right gearing, hills are no problem. You just go slower.

But, when you reach the top - Yippee!

[Coastie for Truth]

15. Once upon a time the Si Valley Electric Car Club

used to have an Annual EV Show and Rally. September - October time frame. It was on the Stanford Campus a quick walk south of the Chapel (toward Page Mill). GM always had a bunch of EV's, plus Toyota RAV4 EV's, and hybrids, and all sorts of kit cars and home builts.

"Sparrow" always had a few of their EV's.

[papau]

17. I always liked the idea of all electric - but I guess the world did not.

Next car will be a hybrid - if there is ever a "next car".

[mhr]

19. I Like The Idea Of Us Moving To Pedal Power And Pedal Assisted Power

Seeing all those CEOs commuting to work by their own power would probably humble them a little.

The real point is that there are options for transportation within and between communities, and there are options for organizing communities in more people friendly ways - see the new urbanism movement.

The task is changing mindsets. Maybe Peak Oil will be enough of a push to start a serious reevaluation of how we live and work in America.

[phantom power]

23. Do they make these with a bit of cargo capacity?

This would work pretty well for going to work, or grocery shopping, but you'd need some room to put stuff in.

[mhr]

24. Yes, They All Have Some Form Of Storage

I suspect that as Peak Oil becomes more of a factor we will see these designs mature and differentiate.

Many of them will become more utilitarian.

[mhr]

22. Peak Oil Read Into The Congressional Record

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x1315202