Signal from the first few moments of the Universe is found

[emad]

Times
By Mark Henderson, Science Correspondent



A COSMIC “missing link” that explains the origin and evolution of today’s galaxies, such as our own Milky Way, has been discovered by scientists.

Research by two separate teams of astronomers has revealed that modern galaxies grew from “embryo” structures that were formed soon after the Big Bang created the Universe almost 14 billion years ago.

The discovery solves one of the longest-standing problems in astronomy: the question of how the matter generated by the Big Bang ultimately clumped together into galaxies.

Had this not taken place, there would have been no stars or planets, and no suitable conditions for life.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/newspaper/0,,172-1436246,00.html

[htuttle]

1. Hmm...I've been trying to understand something about this

We're getting signals from the Big Bang now, which of course means that the radiation from it has been heading our way for a LONG time at the speed of light.

Yet, here we are, quite a distance from 'where' (and 'when') the Big Bang occurred. How did we beat the radiation to get here?

It seems to be that at first glance, the expansion of space/time that brought us to our current location must have been faster than the speed of light (since we beat the radiation from the Big Bang to this point by billions of years, apparently).

However, since there would be nothing that expanding space/time was traveling in relation TO (at least not in the same 3d universe that was expanding), nothing actually was travelling faster than the speed of light in relation to anyting else -- just in relation to the 'void' that existed before space/time expanded to this point, and it doesn't 'exist' as we would think of it. I did not phrase this paragraph very well...

?

So, would it be best to understand the speed of light limit as "nothing can travel THROUGH our 3d space/time faster than the speed of light", while if it were possible to observe the 3d universe from 'outside', the 'edge' of it might well be considered to be going FTL? (assuming one could exist outside the universe, assuming the universe is actually finite but bounded?, and assuming one had a way of measuring a meaningful velocity without space/time coordinates -- which is probably impossible..?).

My head hurts. I shouldn't have thought about this while still on my first cup of coffee...

[Dufaeth]

2. I had always assumed it was "waves" radiating out from

the "point." Sort of more recent aftershocks.

[pmbryant]

3. The Big Bang was everywhere

So we didn't beat it here. :-)

The rest of your post actually sounds roughly correct to me, though I too get headaches trying to make sense of cosmology.

--Peter

[htuttle]

6. Okay, the Big Bang was everywhere

But 'everywhere' was a lot smaller back then than it is now, right?

I keep thinking of the analogy of the 'Universe as expanding ball; (a 4D sphere, I guess), but I'm not sure that's still an appropriate way to visualize it.

on edit: Changed dumb typo from 'big band' to big bang. I do not think Glen Miller has anything to do with cosmology...But Sun Ra? That's another story...

[Salviati]

7. "Everywhere" was a lot smaller back then...

but in the meantime, all the space between us, and the other side of everywhere has also been expanding, so that what once was a short distance, is now an economically huge distance (Economics seems to be generating larger numbers than astronomy these days...;) )

It's like if you were driving from New York to Chicago, and as you were driving, someone kept moving Chicago further west...

[trotsky]

4. Here is how I've heard it explained...

at least as it corresponds to being able to detect the cosmic background radition. This article (http://map.gsfc.nasa.gov/m_uni/uni_101bbtest3.html) lays it out pretty well, with a handy graphic comparing observing the CBR with seeing clouds.

Basically the signal was bounced around so much in the early stages of the universe, we DID get ahead of it and that's how we get to monitor it now.

[dweller]

5. easiest answer

"We are stardust
Billion year old carbon
We are golden
Caught in the devil's bargain
And we've got to get ourselves
Back to the garden"

:donut:


dp