Question to ask christians

[undergroundpanther]

Ok

IF there was no bible,no one god/state religion..no church..
Would gay people be murdered for being gay?

IF there was no bible,no one god/state religion..no church..
would there have been the same evil witch hunts,crusades and colonialists excusing their brutality as a service to god?
what excuses would they have used to justify their insanity if there was no religious excuse?

IF there was no bible,no one god/state religion..no church..
Would women finally be treated equally to men?

IF there was no bible,no one god/state religion..no church..
would people who are transgender be taken seriously and given the help they need?

IF there was no bible,no one god/state religion..no church..
would kids be forced to go to church,when they'd rather play,obey parents even when they are tyrants,so easily?

IF there was no bible,no one god/state religion..no church..
what would we be coerced into pledging our allegiance to?

IF there was no bible,no one god/state religion..no church..
Would the state have the audacity to tell you what kind of relationship to have and with whom? Would the issue of whom you have a relationship with be such an issue?

IF there was no bible,no one god/state religion..no church..
Would boys be circumcised?

IF there was no bible,no one god/state religion..no church..
would the whole concept of an anti sodomy law or anti abortion law just be insane?


IF there was no bible,no one god religion..no church..
would abortion be such an issue?

IF there was no bible,no one god/state religion..no church..
would birth control and sex education be a norm?

IF there was no bible,no one god/ state religion..no church..
Would janet jacksons wardrobe malfunction,cuss words and racy song lyrics matter so much? Would violence be more offensive than sex on TV?

IF there was no bible,no one god/ state religion..no church..
would people interfere with the lives of others so freely and seek to control their freedoms?

IF there was no bible,no one god/state religion..no church..
Would science be discovering more and different things?

IF there was no bible,no one god/state religion..no church..
Would there be less wars,bigots and abuses of people for being different?

IF there was no bible,no one god/state religion..no church..
would blacks be seen as #/4 of a human being and Heathen Indians forced to convert?

IF there was no bible,no one god/state religion..no church..
Would god salesmen not interrupt a perfectly good sunday afternoon?

IF there was no bible,no one god/state religion..no church..
Would stores close on holidays en Masses and cause havoc and inconveniences or could you pick your own holidays and not have to squeeze life around group holidays?

IF there was no bible,no one god/state religion..no church..
Could archeology,science,etc be more honest about their discoveries for there would be no sacred cows wiped out by their findings.

IF there was no bible,no one god/state religion..no church..
would people get over their sexual hangups and have fun in life?

IF there was no bible,no one god/state religion..no church..
would it be easier for people and for society in general to see a manipulator or bully for what they are instead of being sidetracked by what your belief says they should be like because of the meme-tic label you share with them.

IF there was no bible,no one god/state religion..no church..
would good people still be good? And bad people just as bad but with no god sanctioning distracting excuses for what they do?



IF there was no bible,no one god/state religion..no church..
would life be better for all of us instead of for some of us who are by virtue of belief among 'the chosen' choosers?

[China_cat]

1. Better question

What difference does it make to your life or afterlife if I don't believe what you do?

[undergroundpanther]

3. Good one

But still I wonder would gay people be beaten to death just for liking the same sex if the bible didn't exist?

The bible is taught to kids early.. kids get taught what to hate from thier parents who are taught by thiers.The only way to stop this legacy is to QUESTION the sources of where this belief comes from and one source of homophobia is the BIBLE,it's RELIGION,especially the monothiest ones.It's churches and parents and preachers yammering everywhere about sin and hellfire creating scapegoats because the bible tells them so.

[BurtWorm]

7. It's probably more complicated than we think it is.

I was just reading an article on the history of attitudes toward homosexuality in the West, and it suggested that homosexuality was tolerated fairly well, because of the cultural legacy of Greece and Rome, until the 14th Century. The real turning point was the Protestant reformation and the Inquisition. So it may not really have anything to do with the Bible per se, though religion--a return to the "fundamentals" of religion in particular--seems to have had a deleterious effect.

[Broken_Hero]

4. Yeah, no doubt....

But they make it their mission in life to convert everyone, i don't know why. maybe we should fight back a little, knock on their doors on the weekends, at the early morning, and ask them to convert, and keep pounding, asking, until they finally give up, or slam the door on us. These RW/Christian people, make me shake my head. I do believe they are entitled to their beliefs, what they are not entitled to is to drown me in their beliefs/ideas...Let everyone think for themselves...

[undergroundpanther]

6. But the minute

you give them thier own medicine back they scream persecution..
The Christians claim gays convert good christian boys and girls to the "gay lifestyle". And fundies believe this shit... In my experince gays can't and don't convert people..We date people who are gay or at least BI curious.Consenting sex is the only sex worth having and any straight guy or gal can say no and have that respected if the gaydar is not functioning today....Despite reality, the fundies are so reationary they project so much onto others ..Even when pagans and gays are happy being with thier own kind christians are determined to say we recruit from thier congregations.Maybe they are paranoid because thier satan is everywhere..and is running the world and if you get duped the vengeful god of love will torture you forever as his designated vessel of wrath...I dunno.


Never in my life have I seen a big ass truck with a big pentagram on it,equipped with a soundstage and food service kiosk just pull up in the middle of a christian revival and start preaching and doing skits about the godess..

However at Pagan gatherings we have been party crashed by evangelical teams with the big trucks,handing out free food and blasting bad chritian music and doing silly skits and clowning designed to bring souls in the church for jesus..

Explain that one to me.

[noamnety]

9. Ideally, it would make no difference

Ideally, nobody would be pushing their beliefs on others - it would just be a personal relationship between an individual and their god(s).

Ideally, pastors would use the pulpit to preach the gospel, to reignite that relationship between a person and their faith, rather than using it for hate speech against people who believe differently, or using it to convince the congregation that it's their responsibility to fight against the separation of church and state. Ideally, if they don't believe in something like evolution, they would tell their congregation the story of how the world came to be, instead of telling the congregation that anyone trying to use "rational thought" or "logic" was using the tools of the devil. They wouldn't use the pulpit to convince their followers that "human rights" are a secular concept, and therefore also the tools of the devil.

(Can you tell I am not happy with the sermon our Lutheran pastor preached this last Sunday?)

Ideally, the only difference it would make if you had different beliefs than me is that you would be considerate enough not to schedule me for work when I need to be in church, or invite me for dinner and serve something I can't eat. Also, ideally, I'd be able to buy Bailey's for my coffee on Sunday mornings if I run out (a personal pet peeve).

Those ideals (obviously) fall by the wayside when a group decides they want to push their religious beliefs on others, in the form of laws, or taking part of my paycheck to fund religious indoctrination. They fall by the wayside when a fear of offending someone's beliefs leads the government to hide or lie about scientific information.

There's a huge gap between what ideally should make a difference, and what actually does make a difference in our lives.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

22. That one's not fair.

If you believe, as nearly all Christians do, that acceptance of Jesus as the son of God is necessary for salvation, then you have a moral duty to try and convince people to do so.

Interfering in people's lives to try and make them become Christians would therefore be on a moral par with interfering in their lives to force them to wear seatbelts or forbid them to use drugs.

I'm an atheist, but if I were a Christian I'd proselytise as much as I could, on the grounds that it's far better to annoy lots of people than to let even one person who could be saved be damned.

[johnnomac]

23. Wow.

I defintely expected to see a post of this sort, but likely from a self-proclaimed Christian liberal, not from an atheist. I thank you for and congratulate you on your open-mindedness. I have not encountered many atheists who would say something like that.

[undergroundpanther]

25. But isn't a god than damns

Sick? And not just about love?

[Donald Ian Rankin]

29. Yes, basically.

I think that's an oversimplification, but it's basically correct. As I said, I'm not a Christian, and that's one of the main reasons why not.

If I were to receive a flash of blue light and learn that "Christianity is true", but no more details that that, I'd probably go with either some form of Universalism, believing that while some (or indeed all) souls were damned, eventually even those were saved, and that all is for the best in this best of all possible worlds, or some version of Gnosticism wherein the being that damns is in fact just a Demiurge, rather that the true God.

Neither of these positions seems to me to be fully consistent with either Christian scripture or teaching or with observed evidence, but I think they're probably the best compromises available.

[undergroundpanther]

28. Glad you are not a Christian than

[Donald Ian Rankin]

31. So you should be.

If I were, I would consider myself to be logically constrained to oppose abortion, rights for homosexuals, women's equality, and a variety of other positions which I support quite strongly, and to do so actively rather than taking the cop-out "I personally think these things are wrong, but it's wrong for me to impose my views on others".

[rawtribe]

2. Voltaire

Anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities has the power to make you commit injustices. - Voltaire, 1767.

[beam me up scottie]

5. Nominated.

One of your best.

ALSO, it is a much needed dose of reality from someone who actually IS persecuted.

[Shredr]

8. A very solid list of questions

And I agree about gays and others being persecuted in the name of the Bible.

Unfortunately, I think it goes deeper than just that, though. Religion is an answer to unknown and unknowable questions. People are inherently afraid of what they don't know, or what's different. If modern Christianity weren't preaching intollerance (and in a lot of way it is), there would probably be a different answer to the fear question.

the irony is that the teachings of Christ were the exact opposite of what so many "Christians" subscribe to today. Christ taught forgiveness, loving thy neighbor. Modern Christianity seems to have lost the true lessons and reverted to the more fear-based teachings of the Old Testament.

[Greyhound]

10. I respectfully disagree with the assertion that...

people are "inherently afraid of what they don't know, or what's different". This is a learned response, just watch a toddler wander around the house, they don't yet "know" to be afraid of anything.

It is the way things are, but if we incorrectly assign inheritance to this trait, it will never change.

Fear is the "camel's nose" that lets all of the brain-washing start. It is the prime motivator to force people to do what others want them to when it will be personally detrimental.

[Shredr]

11. That is a good point

However, that fear is so ingrained in our collective psyche (sp?) and in the way we raise those kids, it would take a hell of a lot to change the fear-based patterns.

[Lars39]

12. Excellent questions !

Might just help me keep my sanity when the Southern Baptist missionaries I have in the family come to visit soon from India.

[Solly Mack]

13. Great questions

I'll be bookmarking to see the answers - if any

[Taxloss]

14. Interesting stuff.

Of course, there are deep-rooted socioeconomic factors behind things like maltreatment of women that aren't solely related to the church, but this is all worthwhile inquiry.

[Jo March]

15. People will always hate what they can't understand or what they fear

Sorry, but even without the Bible, God, church or religion, folks would still hate and victimize those who are different from them. That is the way of the world. We despise what we fear or what we can't understand. We would still seek out "same" and demonize those who were different from us.

If folks, including YOU, actually read Christ's teachings in the Bible, there would be no hatred, no violence, no discrimation. Jesus taught:

1. Love thy neighbor.
2. Don't judge others.
3. Fix your own flaws before pointing out the flaws of others.
4. Turn the other cheek even if you are slapped.
5. Lay down your swords.
6. Blessed are the peacemakers, the meek, the mild.
7. Let those without sin cast the first stone.
8. Love of money is the root of all evil.
9. Take care of the poor, the old, the sick.
10. Pray silently to God and don't shout your prayers out for all to see like the hypocrites.

All of those do not add up to the violence and prejudice that you are listing above. "Religious" groups and others may use their twisted views of Christianity to oppress, terrorize and discriminate but the teachings of Christ are very, very, very simple.

Please read the teachings of Christ to find out the true meaning of Christianity. Don't read someone else's interpretation - read it for yourself.

Peace be with you.

Arnheim

[beam me up scottie]

16. What about all of the rest of it ?

I don't hear the fundies or the fred phelps' of the world preaching the lessons you've listed in your post.

"If folks, including YOU, actually read Christ's teachings in the Bible, there would be no hatred, no violence, no discrimination"

How insulting is it to suggest the op read the bible ?

How do you know they haven't ?

Because they don't agree that it's a message of love and peace ?

Neither do the ones who use it as a weapon.

And I think they HAVE read the book, don't you ?

Doesn't seem to matter a whole lot to fred phelps, does it ?

Millions of non religious people love our fellow man and promote peace WITHOUT needing to read a book or having a preacher tell us how.

And we tend to resent the implication that we need threats or promises to make us do the right thing.

Listen to the words to Lennon's "Imagine"
The op isn't the only person who feels that way.

I believe that you would be capable of feeling the same love and peace if you never even heard of gods or bibles.

Just MHO.

[undergroundpanther]

18. You read it Anahiem

Ever read THESE parts


One of Jehovah's first actions towards mankind was to attempt to deny his new creation wisdom, lest his position as slavemaster be threatened. (Gen. 2:16-17, 3:1-7).

Jehovah is a god whose bloodlust against humanity can't be satisfied until the Apocalypse described by John in the Revelation destroys most of mankind and leaves Jehovah and Jesus enthroned as world tyrants above remnant.

From his rejection of the fruit offering of Cain in favour of the blood sacrifice of Abel (Gen. 4:3-5) until the final Apocalypse, when blood will flow from 'the winepress of the wrath of God' (Rev. 14:19-20) the hands of Jehovah are dripping with blood.

MORE Verses of Morbid violence:

“And when he was come into his house, he took a knife, and laid hold on his concubine, and divided her, together with her bones, into twelve pieces, and sent her into all the coasts of Israel.” (Judges 19:29)

" As for the women, the children, the livestock and everything else in the city, you may take these as plunder for yourselves. And you may use the plunder the LORD your God gives you from your enemies. Dt 20:15 This is how you are to treat all the cities that are at a distance from you and do not belong to the nations nearby."

Hosea 13:16 "Samaria shall become desolate; for she hath rebelled against her God: they shall fall by the sword: their infants shall be dashed in pieces, and their women with child shall be ripped up."


How bible literalists think..
http://www.raredoctrine.com/apologetics.htm

http://pwccaman.tripod.com /

Why are evangelists supporting Jews? A very SELFISH REASON!
http://www.preteristarchive.com/PartialPreterism/north-...

How many churches are encouraged to take it literally?
http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery?method=4&dsid=2222&...

Here is what it looks liike when the bible is taken literally in the real world. Warning violent images.
http://www.melbourne.indymedia.org/news/2004/10/81910.p...

The Judaeo-Christians' own Bible demonstrates Jehovah, their god, to be a psychotic,contradictory megalomaniac.

One of Jehovah's first actions towards mankind was to attempt to deny his new creation wisdom, lest his position as slavemaster be threatened. (Gen. 2:16-17, 3:1-7).

Jehovah is a god whose bloodlust against humanity can't be satisfied until the Apocalypse described by John in the Revelation destroys most of mankind and leaves Jehovah and Jesus enthroned as world tyrants above remnant.

From his rejection of the fruit offering of Cain in favour of the blood sacrifice of Abel (Gen. 4:3-5) until the final Apocalypse, when blood will flow from 'the winepress of the wrath of God' (Rev. 14:19-20) the hands of Jehovah are dripping with blood.

MORE Verses of Morbid violence:

“And when he was come into his house, he took a knife, and laid hold on his concubine, and divided her, together with her bones, into twelve pieces, and sent her into all the coasts of Israel.” (Judges 19:29)

" As for the women, the children, the livestock and everything else in the city, you may take these as plunder for yourselves. And you may use the plunder the LORD your God gives you from your enemies. Dt 20:15 This is how you are to treat all the cities that are at a distance from you and do not belong to the nations nearby."

Hosea 13:16 "Samaria shall become desolate; for she hath rebelled against her God: they shall fall by the sword: their infants shall be dashed in pieces, and their women with child shall be ripped up."

It's not just an OLD testament..issue..
2 Timothy 3:16 states that the Bible is "God-breathed," or inspired.
His revealed word, the Scriptures, are so important that Jesus said of them, "Man does not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God" (Luke 4:4). In other words, if you want to live life to the fullest God intended, listen and heed (obey)God's written word...it is more important than even having food!

Is it really?

http://www.gotquestions.org/Bible-literal.html


Revelations is full of genocides. Here are some.

Revelation 6:8 (the 4th seal) "I looked, and there before me was a pale horse! It's rider was named Death, and Hades was following close behind him. They were given power over a fourth of the earth to kill by sword, famine and plague, and by the wild beasts of the earth.

Revelation 9:15 (the 6th seal) "And the four angels who had been kept ready for this very hour and day and month and year were released to kill a third of mankind."

Imagine 1/3 off all the people on earth slaughtered.
Lets put this into numbers...
Here's a quick calculation
assuming an initial population of 6 000 000 000:

1/4 are killed when the 4th seal is opened: 1/4 of 6.0 billion is 1.5 billion, leaving 4.5 billion survivors.

1/3 are killed then the 6th seal is opened: 1/3 of 4.5 billion is 1.5 billion, leaving 3.0 billion survivors.

Exactly half of Humankind are killed, and this calculation is only using TWO of the seven seals!

That is GHASTLY.

Tell this verse to the culture of LIFE conrtrol freaks..
How are they going to enforce thier "culture of life"? Forced GYN exams? ON EVERY WOMAN??!!


READ how the bible looooves babies.

Exodus 4:22-23 "Then you must tell him that I, the Lord, say, 'Israel is my first born son. I told you to let my son go, so that he might worship me, but you refused. Now I am going to kill your first-born son.'"

Exodus 32:29 "Moses said to the Levites, "Today you have consecrated yourselves as priests in the service of the Lord by killing your sons and brothers, so the Lord has given you his blessing.""

Numbers 31:17 (Moses) "Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every women that hath known man by lying with him (in other words: women that might be pregnant)."


How can you call a god like this GOOD? How can you love such a monster and give your heart to it? How? Look at history it condems the bible, it's full of biblically inspired book burnings,genocides ,inquisitions, crusades and church pedophile scandals ,We got Dobson beating up his little dog,and justifying child abuse based on his defiant dog,And there are always all those ever eager wannabe cotton mathers and Jimmy Swaggarts making damn sure all are clean and pure except himself.

Read more about taking things literal..
http://www.dimensional.com/~randl/tinq.htm


The bible is no guide for a person's morality, public policy,foriegn policy or ANYTHING else.

[trotsky]

21. Don't cherry-pick.

If it were truly that simple ("Just follow Jesus' TRUE teachings!") dontcha think Christians would have figure it all out by now?

Jesus ALSO said:

Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace but a sword. - Matthew 10:34

Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip; and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one. - Luke 22:36

But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me. - Luke 19:27

And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes. - Luke 12:47 (Jesus had ample opportunity to speak out against slavery, but never once did. Instead he gives beating instructions.)

Jesus also had the opportunity to help mankind understand disease. But instead he perpetuated ignorance by casting disease into pigs and other such nonsense. (Matthew 9:32-33; 12:22 Mark 9:17-29, Luke 11:14)

How about Jesus' life advice? You should ignore future plans (Matthew 6:33-34). You don't need to work for food (John 6:27) or save your money (Matthew 6:19). Encourage people to persecute you (Matthew 5:11). Give away anything you own to every man who asks, and if he steals it, don't try to get it back (Luke 6:30). Sell everything you have and give it to the poor (Mark 10:21). If someone hits you, invite them to hit you again (Matthew 5:39). Don't ever marry a divorced woman because you'll commit adultery (Matthew 5:32). Don't even look at a women in a sexual way because that also constitutes adultery (Matthew 5:28). And don't think about your life, what to eat, the health of your body or about the clothes you wear (Luke 12:22).

Then there's this little gem:

Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no way pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. - Matthew: 5:17-18

Many Xians like to excuse the worst parts of the OT by claiming that Jesus made it obsolete. Not so.

(Large portions of the above borrowed from http://www.nobeliefs.com/jesus.htm)

[eridani]

17. I'm sure people would just think up some other excuse--

--for being shitty to their fellow humans.

[Patiod]

19. My friend loves to ask fundie protesters the following:

When he sees protesters at Gay Pride events, he'll approach them.

He'll ask "okay, so homosexuality is an important issue, right?" and they'll agree.

Then he'll say "so of course Jesus had something to say about something that's important enough for you to be out protesting, right?" This usually trips them up, because Jesus didn't have ANYTHING to say about it.

[Inland]

20. Stalin, Pol Pot, Mao managed to do bad things w/out biblical inspiration

Therefore my guess is that the bible doesn't cause bad people or weak minded people, and in the lack thereof, they would find another reason to be shitty.

[undergroundpanther]

24. I think Pol pot ect al

Had faith too faith in a system, a way .
A vision they imposed on others.

The problem here is when chrismatic bullies get a vision and pmpose it on others.

The bible is one form of a charismatic memetic vision that justfies itself and is imposed on others.

Sure bad people do bad shit without a bible..some bad people do it BECAUSE of the bible.

Think of the mother that kills her kids because God says they are possessed. The bible teaches God speaks tio believers in the voice in the heart(like bush says) and the bible teaches about demonic possession.The bible offers this woman a COVER psychologically for her muderous urges so she does not have to OWN them. She can hide from herself in a belief that rationalizes her deeds..

[NAO]

26. Pol Pot did not last 2,000 yrs - Xianity is the longest running atrocity

in human history. From the persecution of gnostics and other sects in the first few centuries, through the Inquisition, the Witch Hunts, right up to today's pedophile priests, Christianity has inflicted more suffering on mankind than Hitler, Stalin, Genghis Kahn, Pol Pot and all the "really bad guys" combined. It has been a 2,000 year nightmare of violence, intolerance, torture, murder, destruction and child molestation.

***

The Religious Right is really OUT OF CONTROL and is exerting a greater and greater influence on our society. They are flexing their muscles in the political process, the economy and our entire culture.

Let us remember that the first time Christianity spread rapidly and gained control of the government (from 200 - 500 AD) it resulted in the utter collapse of Western Civilization and ushered in 1,000 years of darkness, superstition, ignorance and suffering.

Finally, after a millennium of Darkness, mankind began to see the Dawn of The Age of Reason and The Enlightenment. Humanity recovered some dignity, science was freed from the chains of religious superstition and real progress began.

The Constitution of the United States of America was one of the crowning achievements of The Enlightenment, being a document for the Establishment of a government that did NOT MAKE ONE SINGLE REFERENCE TO "GOD". With the establishment of the United States, government as well as science was freed from the domination of religious superstition.

Now, every day in the news there is some story about how the religionists are exerting their influence. Radical Clerics like James Dobson and Jerry Falwell get air time on network news. Religionists are organizing and boycotting businesses that do not adhere to their version of personal morality.

The specter of religious superstition is once again casting a frightening shadow over our world. The ghosts and demons of the Dark Ages, once believed to be banished forever by Reason, are again haunting our culture. Christianity destroyed civilization once before - it could happen again.

***

The Freethought Zone
Science and Reason Over Religion and Superstition
http://freethought.freeservers.com /

Freedom from Religion Foundation
http://www.ffrf.org /

Secular Humanism
http://www.secularhumanism.org /

Secular Web
http://www.infidels.org/index.shtml

Thomas Paine's The Age of Reason - Online
http://www.infidels.org/library/historical/thomas_paine/age_of_reason/index.shtml

Complete Works of Robert Ingersoll - Online
http://www.infidels.org/library/historical/robert_ingersoll/index.shtml

[undergroundpanther]

27. Agreed

This 2000 year long brutal regime is something so many christians overlook..Just like the downright sick shit jesus says in thier precious little book of propaganda that has held all of humanity back by holding a segment of the population in it's thrall to the point they take that shit literally and call a contrary book of propaganda thier ethical 'compass'.

[johnnomac]

30. Yeah.....

You know, that's the real point of Christianity. It's all just an excuse to hate people and molest children. I'm sure all of that "love your neighbour" and "forgiveness of sins" stuff is just made up to cover for them.

As a long-time member of this board, I would think that you would know lumping all of one group together is incredibly ignorant and hurtful.

[beam me up scottie]

32. Where does he lump all christians together ?

I have never seen NAO be anything but respectful to other members.

He is not being "ignorant and hurtful", he is stating his opinions and I happen to agree with him, as do many others.

The rest of us are usually not as polite as he is, however.

You are offended by his statements about your religion and are unfairly accusing him of attacking all christians.

Perhaps an apology to this longtime DU member is in order ?

[johnnomac]

33. OK, I did come on a little harshly

I apologize if you were offended by my retort. It's been a stressful few weeks from me, and I am sorry. In the future I will certainly rethink and tone down any accusations I make, especially towards long time DU'ers.

However, I still think that calling Christianity an "atrocity" and a "nightmare" could certainly be considered hurtful. As could implying that its chief accomplishments have been "violence, intolerance, torture, murder, destruction and child molestation".

[beam me up scottie]

34. You didn't offend me.

I just think you misunderstood his post.

Understand that most of us are separating you, the person, from the faith when we criticize religion.

Would you think it hurtful if we said the same about a form of government?

[johnnomac]

35. Oh....... (lightbulb goes on)

"Understand that most of us are separating you, the person, from the faith when we criticize religion."

That would make a lot of sense. As you can obviously tell, I am a newbie on here, but I am not entirely new to online forums. I have encountered many people who say very negative things about Christianity (and religion in general), both online and personally. However, for msot of them, the above quote would not be true. An awful lot of people I know would say something like "Christianity has caused a lot of harm. Therefore God doesn't exist, and you are an immoral fool for believing in him. Why don't you go start another Crusade?"

And I think you can see why I would consider that offensive. Sadly, it's not often that I see the first part of that statement without the rest implied. So again I apologize for the misunderstanding, and I will certainly give people the benefit of the doubt on here, especially long-time posters. Thanks for understanding.

[beam me up scottie]

36. Don't mention it.

You are an asset to DU and a credit to your generation, Johnnomac.

The wonderful thing about this place is that most of us learn from the misunderstandings.

I am just as guilty as anyone else when it comes to snarking, and I usually find myself apologizing to those I offended after the dust settles.

It doesn't hurt to ask for clarification, but if you think you are being insulted or if someone is being disrespectful, don't hesitate to hit alert.

:toast:

[seaj11]

37. These things

aren't a product of religion of any kind. They're a product of human paranoia and self-centeredness. As a Buddhist, I believe that true spirituality negates the need for such behavior. Many people associate religion with their fear and that is not a healthy association.

[zbdent]

38. Funny thing is, John Lennon was blasted for writing a song about

living exactly as Jesus would have wanted us to live.

In peace, and respecting all . . .